Cosmic Carbone SLS or Fulcrum Red Wind 50
Discussion
Probably the cosmics but for that sort of money I think I would probably not bother and go with a carbon rim rather than an alu rim and carbon fairing, not sure why and I know the benefits of an alu brake track but I just dont like the way the spoke cuts through the fairing and the holes look messy so personally, I'd save some more cash and look at Reynolds Attacks or Ritchey Apex WCS instead.
If you do want an alu brake track, have a look at the Vision T42s, the Amercian Classic 58s or the Planet X wheels too, I tried the PXs on EddH's bike and quite liked them, they took a bit of effort to spin up but went well at speed.
However, for £300, the default ebay carbon wheels would get my vote, branded hubs, branded spokes, enough UK users now for quality not to be an issue... I wouldnt get hung up over rim depth too much either, anything of 38mm is going to be a good balance between aero and weight.
If you do want an alu brake track, have a look at the Vision T42s, the Amercian Classic 58s or the Planet X wheels too, I tried the PXs on EddH's bike and quite liked them, they took a bit of effort to spin up but went well at speed.
However, for £300, the default ebay carbon wheels would get my vote, branded hubs, branded spokes, enough UK users now for quality not to be an issue... I wouldnt get hung up over rim depth too much either, anything of 38mm is going to be a good balance between aero and weight.
pablo said:
Probably the cosmics but for that sort of money I think I would probably not bother and go with a carbon rim rather than an alu rim and carbon fairing, not sure why and I know the benefits of an alu brake track but I just dont like the way the spoke cuts through the fairing and the holes look messy so personally, I'd save some more cash and look at Reynolds Attacks or Ritchey Apex WCS instead.
If you do want an alu brake track, have a look at the Vision T42s, the Amercian Classic 58s or the Planet X wheels too, I tried the PXs on EddH's bike and quite liked them, they took a bit of effort to spin up but went well at speed.
However, for £300, the default ebay carbon wheels would get my vote, branded hubs, branded spokes, enough UK users now for quality not to be an issue... I wouldnt get hung up over rim depth too much either, anything of 38mm is going to be a good balance between aero and weight.
A friend of mine recommended the eBay jobs to me last night. He has them on his race bike and is buying a pair for his training bike ... has done a load of miles and is really impressed with them .. says the 38mm are a better compromise in the crosswinds. I'm tempted myself at that price!If you do want an alu brake track, have a look at the Vision T42s, the Amercian Classic 58s or the Planet X wheels too, I tried the PXs on EddH's bike and quite liked them, they took a bit of effort to spin up but went well at speed.
However, for £300, the default ebay carbon wheels would get my vote, branded hubs, branded spokes, enough UK users now for quality not to be an issue... I wouldnt get hung up over rim depth too much either, anything of 38mm is going to be a good balance between aero and weight.
Unless you ride TT (fast!), you might want to question the benefits of aero. Aero wheels will always be heavier on a like-for-like basis than a shallower section rim/hub combo, not to mention less comfortable. You might find you're better off with a lighter set of non-aero wheels where you'll feel the benefit 100% of the time. I had some wheels made for me by justridingalong, Stans rims with American Classic hubs. They weigh less than 1400g, are handbuilt, cost less than £600 and are the best upgrade I've bought for my bike. They're also plenty strong as I weigh ca 85kg
Neil G60 said:
Unless you ride TT (fast!), you might want to question the benefits of aero. Aero wheels will always be heavier on a like-for-like basis than a shallower section rim/hub combo, not to mention less comfortable. You might find you're better off with a lighter set of non-aero wheels where you'll feel the benefit 100% of the time. I had some wheels made for me by justridingalong, Stans rims with American Classic hubs. They weigh less than 1400g, are handbuilt, cost less than £600 and are the best upgrade I've bought for my bike. They're also plenty strong as I weigh ca 85kg
Planet X 50mm tubulars are about 1400g and cost less than £400.Although someone will be along shortly to tell you to buy some cheap wheels as posh wheels only make a difference if your a pro.
Neil G60 said:
Unless you ride TT (fast!), you might want to question the benefits of aero. Aero wheels will always be heavier on a like-for-like basis than a shallower section rim/hub combo, not to mention less comfortable. You might find you're better off with a lighter set of non-aero wheels where you'll feel the benefit 100% of the time. I had some wheels made for me by justridingalong, Stans rims with American Classic hubs. They weigh less than 1400g, are handbuilt, cost less than £600 and are the best upgrade I've bought for my bike. They're also plenty strong as I weigh ca 85kg
By all means question. However, there are a few commonly quoted beliefs there that seem to make sense, but are, well, wrong..You don't need to be fast to get aero benefit. Yes, you'll be saving more watts when you go fast, but over a given distance, the slower person will take more time - they save less watts but for more time. There's actually more benefit to the slow person.. (although you might question why the time matters if you're slow).
There is inherently no reason why an aero wheel should be less compliant. Depending on the rim, the rim alone may be stiffer (I'd suggest that a zipp 808 is stiffer than a HED 90, the hed being a fairing on a rim), but the whole system includes spokes, and their tension. Perfectly possible to build an ally box section rim with less compliance than a 50mm ish 'aero' wheel.
(OK, a carbon disk is probably pretty rigid..)
It's quite surprising how much of a hill you need before the tradeoff swings in favor of weight from aero. Something around 4% IIRC, and that's only climbing. Unless you live in the alps, you're probably better off being aero.
Lastly.. 'aero' wheels tend to make a nice noise
upsidedownmark said:
You don't need to be fast to get aero benefit. Yes, you'll be saving more watts when you go fast, but over a given distance, the slower person will take more time - they save less watts but for more time. There's actually more benefit to the slow person.. (although you might question why the time matters if you're slow).
Some very odd logic there. What about drag increasing with the square of speed and all that? Good point, might have over-stated that one - doesn't quite make sense! Logically if you average 50kph you'll be out 1/2 as much time as someone at 25, but pushing 4x as much power.. However, the point that aero isn't just for 'fast' folks stands. The actual spread of speeds isn't that great - and the additional time on course at least compounds the benefit / mitigates the loss from a direct comparison of speed / drag.
The crossover point for drag/rolling resistance is typically 10mph. i.e. above 10mph the majority of your energy goes into breaking through the air. At 20mph it's around 75% of your effort.
However...
For a 2% gradient if you weigh 70kg then unless you're doing above 20mph+ then gravity is still the overriding force.
However...
upsidedownmark said:
It's quite surprising how much of a hill you need before the tradeoff swings in favor of weight from aero. Something around 4% IIRC, and that's only climbing. Unless you live in the alps, you're probably better off being aero.
I don't agree with this at all.For a 2% gradient if you weigh 70kg then unless you're doing above 20mph+ then gravity is still the overriding force.
It's a complex subject. This one I didn't hallucinate at least:
ETA: to clarify the table, note that for all categories of rider at 3%, and for elite at 6% the 20k time is slower with a light wheel vs aero.
Snipped from 'cutting edge cycling', results from a study by jenkendrup and martin (2001).
I don't doubt that the 70kg of weight is producing more retardation than the drag at a 2% gradient < 20mph, BUT the question is actually whether the additional (say) 200g of an aero wheel contributes enough retardation to outweigh the reduction in drag of the bike, which is slightly different.
Then throw in that on a hilly course you're going to spend quite a bit of time going fast downhill. I personally believe there is an over-obsession with weight. Especially rotating weight... and there is a can of worms for sure
Ditto, lets say that below 10mph, RR is > aero drag, doesn't mean that aero drag doesn't matter, anymore than at 20mph, the (say)25% that remains as RR is insignificant - there are only crossover points, no magical boundaries where what matters changes in an absolute sense.
Edited by upsidedownmark on Friday 28th March 16:52
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