Calling Tuscan officionardoes...

[Chuggaboom]

Was/is the Red Rose spec specifically reserved for the 4.0 or can u order a 3.6 RR and/or was the RR available as an upgrade on any car ?

Who's got what out there now in RR ?

What are the mechanical differences between a 4.0 RR and an S ?

Thanks

G.

>>> Edited by Chuggaboom on Wednesday 24th November 22:17

[beano500]

Chuggaboom said:

What are the mechanical differences between a 4.0 RR and an S ?

Technically very little - you can tell the difference outwardly by the spoiler (and rear light positioning) and the front splitter. Otherwise a Red Rose and an S are/could look the same.

Inside the engine (is a mystery!) but should probably be about the same. There are a few (probably urban myths) stories about whether it is supposed to have 380/390/395/400 bhp. I suspect if you look at the outside of the engine you might find someone had scrawled something in black marker pen on it somewhere....

The RR "package" is the engine, air con, suspension and brakes all thrown together. Any "standard" car could have had any or all the above as options.

One day somebody said to themselves "well the RRs aren't selling too well" The "S" was born and the "standard" car became the 3.6 version. Happened about summer/autumn 2002, IIRC.

If that all seems a little vague, a million and one other people will post their views in a minute, there'll probably be a scrappy fight and this thread will probably get locked... ...by about Friday....

Cynical? Moi?




>> Edited by beano500 on Wednesday 24th November 22:10

[TUS 373]

Excuse the limited response, but in short:

The RR had a further 20bhp than the standard 4 litre together with uprated brakes, suspension and some cosmetic differences. Then, TVR went for a 350bhp 3.6 litre as the standard car, and 390 bhp 4 litre S. So effectively, you have two different time periods you are comparing.


Some people on here have had RR upgrades to 360 bhp engines. As to what TVR now call Red Rose, I'm not too sure, but I would reckon that it does not apply to Tuscans at all, but hotter versions of the T350, Tamora etc may be available that do not use the stock 3.6, but perhaps the 4 litre from the Tuscan S instead.

[T88CAN]

beano500 said:

, there'll probably be a scrappy fight and this thread will probably get locked... ...by about Friday.... Cynical? Moi? >> Edited by beano500 on Wednesday 24th November 22:10

Or it will turn into a Speed 6 rebuild debate again

[T88CAN]

Bryan is spot on,but some of us have had RR bits retro fitted just to confuse matters, i don`t think there are two identical Tuscans out their

[whitey]

Bryan is almost correct

The Red Rose package was a £4200 option from new. It consisted of 18" wheels, bigger brakes, firmer suspension and an extra 20bhp to 380bhp(different camshafts, bigger injectors and different ECU). Yes, the engines have Red Rose written in felt tip on the front end of the fuel rail!

There were NO cosmetic changes.

This was then standardised as the Tuscan S, which had the above plus front splitter, rear spoiler, different rear badge, air-con as standard and colour coded boot carpet plus engine bhp increase to 390bhp.

At the time the S was released my Red Rose was having an engine re-build and the factory told me the S engine was the same as the Red Rose, the extra 10bhp just being on paper.

I do know the S car's have a larger bore exhaust system than standard cars, but I am unsure if the RR cars have this or not.

Since then the S engine has increased to 400bhp, and obviously TVR will have been continuously improving the engine....

cheers
Whitey

[J_S_G]

whitey said:

...

Spot on. Would just point out that the "firmer" dampers on the RR (and S?) are just the height adjustable ones... not sure if they/the springs actually are any firmer.

When I had mine rebuilt, I was now quoted 395BHP from the RR based upon new ECU, etc. Very much seems to be a gradual honing of power from the block.

[_DJ_]

J_S_G said:

whitey said: ... Spot on. Would just point out that the "firmer" dampers on the RR (and S?) are just the height adjustable ones... not sure if they/the springs actually are any firmer. When I had mine rebuilt, I was now quoted 395BHP from the RR based upon new ECU, etc. Very much seems to be a gradual honing of power from the block.

So what you're saying is that a Tuscan will have between 350 and 400bhp depending on the original spec, when it was rebuild and if any additional work has been done to the engine (such as the RR upgrade).

Sounds like you just need to judge each car on its current specification and pretty much ignore the S or RR designation that it left the factory with.

Darren.

[beano500]

J_S_G said:

... that the "firmer" dampers on the RR (and S?) are just the height adjustable ones... not sure if they/the springs actually are any firmer. ...

Interesting point I learnt the other day: Originally there was a difference with the RR using a "beefier" damper. All cars are apparently now using that beefier damper (and I caused the sudden shortage of replacements in the south of england last week - oops sorry!)

[powerlord]

whitey said:

Bryan is almost correct The Red Rose package was a £4200 option from new. It consisted of 18" wheels, bigger brakes, firmer suspension and an extra 20bhp to 380bhp(different camshafts, bigger injectors and different ECU). Yes, the engines have Red Rose written in felt tip on the front end of the fuel rail! There were NO cosmetic changes. cheers Whitey

I can confirm all this down to the marker pen on my engine.

And blackpool can confirm RR for you (whether it was fitted from new or later, etc).

I do however consider my nice big front drilled disks with allen bolts all round as a cool cosmetic change.. though I understand it may have some performance benefit too



A common misconception was that RR included aircon and full leather. It didn't. But basically many of the folk that specified RR (perhaps 'young city muppets' wouldn't be far off the mark) also spcced everything else they could get their greedy little hands on. Hence a higher proportion of RRs have other extras than non-RRs.

As they got a bit more fiddling they tended to be better sorted generally. i.e. the suspension was setup properly for the 18s, etc too.

Saying that, a 2000 with 18s on that is still around today has probably had work done on the suspension too as it would be hellish otherwise.

One difference from the S (apart from the lack of the disgusting spoilers ) is that as far as I know the short shift gear box was not an option on a RR vintage tusc. That only became an option on the S (and isn't it standard now on the S?).

stu

*imho

[whitey]

_DJ_ said:

J_S_G said: whitey said: ... When I had mine rebuilt, I was now quoted 395BHP from the RR based upon new ECU, etc. Very much seems to be a gradual honing of power from the block. So what you're saying is that a Tuscan will have between 350 and 400bhp depending on the original spec, when it was rebuild and if any additional work has been done to the engine (such as the RR upgrade). Sounds like you just need to judge each car on its current specification and pretty much ignore the S or RR designation that it left the factory with. Darren.

No. Well sort of

If an S car engine goes in for a re-build, it will be re-built as an S engine.

If a RR car engine goes in for a re-build it will be re-built as a RR engine.

Depending on what needs to be done to the engine at the time, then I guess you would have between 380-400bhp. ie: if an early RR engine went in for a top end re-build only, I guess it would remain at 380bhp, but if the engine required a full re-build, you may get a new ECU and cam profiles etc which could result in 400bhp, but probably not quite 400bhp as the exhaust would not be replaced by the larger bore S exhaust.

Cheers
Whitey

[whitey]

powerlord said:

One difference from the S (apart from the lack of the disgusting spoilers ) is that as far as I know the short shift gear box was not an option on a RR vintage tusc. That only became an option on the S (and isn't it standard now on the S?). stu *imho

Yes the close Ratio box was standard on S cars, but the majority of early S cars had the standard box fitted and it was only if the owner keep chasing the factory would they eventually fit it when they had enough supply of them that did not break.

cheers
Whitey