Lightroom questions
Discussion
I can't work it out. The idea of DNG is that it's lossless and maintains all the changes to it in the file itself, correct? So if I import photos from camera RAW and copy them as DNGs I thought I can move them wherever afterwards and when I open them I will have all the adjustments applied. Apparently it doesn't work that way.
What would you do in a following situation:
I take photos, import them to my Macbook since it's an SSD so fast editing. Then I edit the photos, reject the ones I don't like and export small Jpgs for web etc.
Now I neither want nor need to have those DNG cluttering my laptop so I move them to an external backup hard drive. But then they are not in Lightroom catalogue anymore since I moved them so I lose all the adjustments etc.
What should I do to be able to edit them on and from my laptop but store them elsewhere while at the same time have them in LR catalogue?
What would you do in a following situation:
I take photos, import them to my Macbook since it's an SSD so fast editing. Then I edit the photos, reject the ones I don't like and export small Jpgs for web etc.
Now I neither want nor need to have those DNG cluttering my laptop so I move them to an external backup hard drive. But then they are not in Lightroom catalogue anymore since I moved them so I lose all the adjustments etc.
What should I do to be able to edit them on and from my laptop but store them elsewhere while at the same time have them in LR catalogue?
One way to do it is to copy the lightroom catalogue. I don't know if there's a way to sync them (so a change on your mac is updated to the external drive) but if it's just for storage it should work fine. You may have to relink the DNG copies to the catalogue copy but I've done it in the past (to copy adjustments from laptop to pc) and it works fine, if a little clunkily.
rottie102 said:
I can't work it out. The idea of DNG is that it's lossless and maintains all the changes to it in the file itself, correct? So if I import photos from camera RAW and copy them as DNGs I thought I can move them wherever afterwards and when I open them I will have all the adjustments applied. Apparently it doesn't work that way.
What would you do in a following situation:
I take photos, import them to my Macbook since it's an SSD so fast editing. Then I edit the photos, reject the ones I don't like and export small Jpgs for web etc.
Now I neither want nor need to have those DNG cluttering my laptop so I move them to an external backup hard drive. But then they are not in Lightroom catalogue anymore since I moved them so I lose all the adjustments etc.
What should I do to be able to edit them on and from my laptop but store them elsewhere while at the same time have them in LR catalogue?
I don't know much about DNG format, I don't really see the point. As long as you have the RAW plug in for your camera, you should always be able to perform RAW conversions in Lightroom.What would you do in a following situation:
I take photos, import them to my Macbook since it's an SSD so fast editing. Then I edit the photos, reject the ones I don't like and export small Jpgs for web etc.
Now I neither want nor need to have those DNG cluttering my laptop so I move them to an external backup hard drive. But then they are not in Lightroom catalogue anymore since I moved them so I lose all the adjustments etc.
What should I do to be able to edit them on and from my laptop but store them elsewhere while at the same time have them in LR catalogue?
I think as long as you attach the external drive to your Mac, Lightroom can seek out the relevant (xmp file) info from your catalogue. Just attach it before you start working in Lightroom. I've not tried it but you might experiment with putting your catalogues on to the cloud - if you don't shoot too many files, that is.
R32 said:
There is usually a little xml file stored alongside the image which contains the LR adjustments. LR will read this when you re-import to a new database.
There isn't with DNG, that's the whole idea. The adjustments are stored within the file itself. Whether DNGs or CR2s + xml is not an issue. If LR would see the adjustments after the file is moved from an original place, it would see it it either way.
Edited by rottie102 on Friday 21st March 11:32
tim-b said:
One way to do it is to copy the lightroom catalogue. I don't know if there's a way to sync them (so a change on your mac is updated to the external drive) but if it's just for storage it should work fine. You may have to relink the DNG copies to the catalogue copy but I've done it in the past (to copy adjustments from laptop to pc) and it works fine, if a little clunkily.
Sorry, I don't get it. Copy where? It's the same system, I understand it in your case with two computers.Does this help?
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4878269
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4878269
Edited by Mr Pointy on Friday 21st March 11:53
As has been said the adjustments are not made in the source file, they are held I a separate file.
The problem you are running into is that when you 'import' a picture into Lightroom, all it does is create a thumbnail and a link to the original file.
If you move the source file to another folder or rename it outside of LR then the link inside Lightroom is broken.
If you want to move the files and maintain the links then you need to do that inside LR. You can do that in the catalog module by dragging and dropping folders on the left hand panel
The problem you are running into is that when you 'import' a picture into Lightroom, all it does is create a thumbnail and a link to the original file.
If you move the source file to another folder or rename it outside of LR then the link inside Lightroom is broken.
If you want to move the files and maintain the links then you need to do that inside LR. You can do that in the catalog module by dragging and dropping folders on the left hand panel
DNG files store the edits in the source file, not the LR library. Thats one of the advantages of DNG.
I suspect there is something that LR is doing when you re-import the DNG file from it's new location to overwrite your edits. For example do you apply a LR preset as part of the import process as that will overwrite all of the previous edits in the DNG file.
I suspect there is something that LR is doing when you re-import the DNG file from it's new location to overwrite your edits. For example do you apply a LR preset as part of the import process as that will overwrite all of the previous edits in the DNG file.
MartinP said:
DNG files store the edits in the source file, not the LR library. Thats one of the advantages of DNG.
I suspect there is something that LR is doing when you re-import the DNG file from it's new location to overwrite your edits. For example do you apply a LR preset as part of the import process as that will overwrite all of the previous edits in the DNG file.
Does it do this automatically? Reading through the thread I linked to above it may not be the case & the changes don't get written to the source file.I suspect there is something that LR is doing when you re-import the DNG file from it's new location to overwrite your edits. For example do you apply a LR preset as part of the import process as that will overwrite all of the previous edits in the DNG file.
Colin RedGriff said:
As has been said the adjustments are not made in the source file, they are held I a separate file.
The problem you are running into is that when you 'import' a picture into Lightroom, all it does is create a thumbnail and a link to the original file.
If you move the source file to another folder or rename it outside of LR then the link inside Lightroom is broken.
If you want to move the files and maintain the links then you need to do that inside LR. You can do that in the catalog module by dragging and dropping folders on the left hand panel
I don't agree with first two paragraphs since I've been COPYING files as DNG from memory card and then working on them and with DNGs there's only one file but I think you may be spot on with the last two! It does make sense that I should have copied the files USING Lightroom so it will know what's happening. I'll try that out!! Thanks The problem you are running into is that when you 'import' a picture into Lightroom, all it does is create a thumbnail and a link to the original file.
If you move the source file to another folder or rename it outside of LR then the link inside Lightroom is broken.
If you want to move the files and maintain the links then you need to do that inside LR. You can do that in the catalog module by dragging and dropping folders on the left hand panel
rottie102 said:
Colin RedGriff said:
As has been said the adjustments are not made in the source file, they are held I a separate file.
The problem you are running into is that when you 'import' a picture into Lightroom, all it does is create a thumbnail and a link to the original file.
If you move the source file to another folder or rename it outside of LR then the link inside Lightroom is broken.
If you want to move the files and maintain the links then you need to do that inside LR. You can do that in the catalog module by dragging and dropping folders on the left hand panel
I don't agree with first two paragraphs since I've been COPYING files as DNG from memory card and then working on them and with DNGs there's only one file but I think you may be spot on with the last two! It does make sense that I should have copied the files USING Lightroom so it will know what's happening. I'll try that out!! Thanks The problem you are running into is that when you 'import' a picture into Lightroom, all it does is create a thumbnail and a link to the original file.
If you move the source file to another folder or rename it outside of LR then the link inside Lightroom is broken.
If you want to move the files and maintain the links then you need to do that inside LR. You can do that in the catalog module by dragging and dropping folders on the left hand panel
Lightroom doesn't write to non-DNG raw file headers so XML sidecars are created but again, only if you specifically tell Lightroom to do so (as above). XML sidecars are nothing more than text files containing editing instructions.
In both cases, even if initial edits are written to the DNG header or XML sidecar, any further edits you do are stored in the Lightroom Catalog unless you tell Lightroom otherwise.
Beau Nash said:
No, the first two paragraphs are correct too. Lightroom saves any editing you do as "instructions" within its catalog. Those "editing instructions" are only written to the DNG header if you specifically tell Lightroom to do so, either by setting it as Automatic in the Preferences, or manually via the menu or hitting Cmd-S. Lightroom can write to the file header in TIFFs and JPEGs too.
Lightroom doesn't write to non-DNG raw file headers so XML sidecars are created but again, only if you specifically tell Lightroom to do so (as above). XML sidecars are nothing more than text files containing editing instructions.
In both cases, even if initial edits are written to the DNG header or XML sidecar, any further edits you do are stored in the Lightroom Catalog unless you tell Lightroom otherwise.
This does make sense too. So I should have my problem sorted if I will just save selected files everytime after import and then move the files using Lightroom. This way I will have the changes stored forever and have the files available in library without having to import them when needed.Lightroom doesn't write to non-DNG raw file headers so XML sidecars are created but again, only if you specifically tell Lightroom to do so (as above). XML sidecars are nothing more than text files containing editing instructions.
In both cases, even if initial edits are written to the DNG header or XML sidecar, any further edits you do are stored in the Lightroom Catalog unless you tell Lightroom otherwise.
One more question - I'm assuming that keywords, ratings, labels are also stored within DNG when saved?
Yes they are, in exactly the same way that edits are - in the Catalog until told otherwise.
Incidentally, if you export an edited DNG as a JPEG or TIFF (or indeed, as another DNG), there's an option to "Include Metadata" in the Export Dialog where you can configure what's written to the file header on export.
Incidentally, if you export an edited DNG as a JPEG or TIFF (or indeed, as another DNG), there's an option to "Include Metadata" in the Export Dialog where you can configure what's written to the file header on export.
Edited by Beau Nash on Friday 21st March 16:50
I can recommend this site for useful info on the internal workings of LR
http://www.lightroomqueen.com/
http://www.lightroomqueen.com/
I watched/read a few newbie sites on LR and they ALL said to tick that XML option - it's the only way to save your edits if the LR database gets deleted or corrupted.
I think without ticking that box it only saves the edits in it's internal database....regardless of what DNG is meant to do?
I think without ticking that box it only saves the edits in it's internal database....regardless of what DNG is meant to do?
Irrotational said:
I think without ticking that box it only saves the edits in it's internal database....regardless of what DNG is meant to do?
As I said, unless you hit Cmd-S (I'm guessing it's Ctrl-S in Windows) or go via the menu to save instructions/metadata to the image file header.I think I've got that all sorted.
Thanks everyone!
Now another one - I edit photo in LR, then for some content aware cleanup I open it in PS (CS6 if it makes a difference). When done I save it and it opens a new version in LR. All good, I reject the old version but is there any way that it doesn't save itself as a > 100MB PSD? Even if the original file was <30MB.
Thanks everyone!
Now another one - I edit photo in LR, then for some content aware cleanup I open it in PS (CS6 if it makes a difference). When done I save it and it opens a new version in LR. All good, I reject the old version but is there any way that it doesn't save itself as a > 100MB PSD? Even if the original file was <30MB.
rottie102 said:
I think I've got that all sorted.
Thanks everyone!
Now another one - I edit photo in LR, then for some content aware cleanup I open it in PS (CS6 if it makes a difference). When done I save it and it opens a new version in LR. All good, I reject the old version but is there any way that it doesn't save itself as a > 100MB PSD? Even if the original file was <30MB.
Not unless I've been doing it wrong for years...although I end up with TIFFs as well just in case.Thanks everyone!
Now another one - I edit photo in LR, then for some content aware cleanup I open it in PS (CS6 if it makes a difference). When done I save it and it opens a new version in LR. All good, I reject the old version but is there any way that it doesn't save itself as a > 100MB PSD? Even if the original file was <30MB.
p
I find a 25mb RAW edited in CS6 and then put back into LR5 leaves a trail of about 200-225-mb of RAW,PSD and TIFF . Not nice if that's what happens to every photo and you absolutely cannot lose any step of the way.
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