2001 Tuscan S diagnosis please..

2001 Tuscan S diagnosis please..

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Discussion

Billiam

Original Poster:

135 posts

137 months

Wednesday 12th March 2014
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Hi all and thanks for looking.. since getting the car nearly 2 weeks ago now, i was out in it the other day and she started to misfire. Under load the car tries to go but does not.. it almost feels 'backed up' so to speak but to clarify, i put my foot down, theres a bit of a 'shudder' before the car tries to go but i lift and depress again and it goes fine.. any ideas please ? Its usually under heavy load in low revs, its not the clutch slipping as its not 'revving' just making a fuss.. also off throttle its popping and banging alot more, which usually would be good.. ! Im suspecting coil pack possibly ? As it just had 12k service which i assume includes all usual service bits such as sparks etc but theres no warning lights coming on.. any information is appreciated !!

Also on startup the alternator belt (i assume!) 'squeals' and is a bit frayed around the edges.. picture below - any significance perhaps ? I will certainly get it changed as it doesnt look healthy.. i literally have no idea what anything is/does so apologies if i say anything dumb.. but i do know how to put something back the way i remove it, so not afraid to take on basics..

Again thanks in advance for any input..



JRH63

166 posts

137 months

Wednesday 12th March 2014
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Defo sounds like a plug, lead, or coil pack. If it improves when you lift off, it's certainly seems ignition related.
The TT(that I've just part exed for a Tamora) had the same symptoms and it was coil stick.

Billiam

Original Poster:

135 posts

137 months

Wednesday 12th March 2014
quotequote all

Indeed.. my immediate thought was coil but also read the leads can be weak so might start with them, their cheapest option first.. i will check the sparks were done for certain and maybe buy a couple of coils and play around with them, my only thought on coils is they would show up on the dash but maybe if its not failed completely they would not..

But thanks for the input.. hopefully someone will come along anytime soon to confirm they had same problem and sorted via coils ! Wishful thinking maybe..

m4tti

5,479 posts

170 months

Wednesday 12th March 2014
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That picture is your air on pulley.

As for a coil internally breaking down that won't show on your dash... the ecu has no way of determining resistance or output.

And I'd avoid labouring these engines.. they don't like low revs and heavy loads. You should work the gears.

Did they not bring the condition of the belts up in the service.. I think you'll want to remove the air box to see if the alternator is similar. If it goes you'll be stranded.


Edited by m4tti on Wednesday 12th March 22:17

nawarne

3,126 posts

275 months

Thursday 13th March 2014
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I'd agree with Matt's comments above.

If a full 12K mile service was done, I'd expect to see evidence that the air-box was removed (because I'd expect the throttles to be checked for balance). With the air-box off the engine, the alternator and air-con drive belts are easier to see. Therefore, I would hope to have some comment on the invoice regarding condition of belts.

Regarding the hesitancy on your engine, I'd almost bet my house that it is the coil-pack and/or HT leads breaking down. Under load, the spark is just being blown out/not sustained by 'weak' components. Had this happen on my 2004 'S' a few months ago. The coil pack was available from my local motor factors, but got HT leads from Racetech. Probably worth doing both - I did, and problem sorted.

Nick

tvrboy55

185 posts

185 months

Thursday 13th March 2014
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Or maybe it's got damp with all this rain.

Billiam

Original Poster:

135 posts

137 months

Tuesday 18th March 2014
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Hi guys, thanks for all your suggestions. I think i have found part of the problem - i took the airbox off and found some signs that im due for a new one !! Quality is not perfect as its off my phone but 2 pics below with cracks/splits in airbox which is probably causing the rough idle (in part).. if i disconnect the sensor on top of the airbox - will the car 'run' ok if its an air problem ?








Was going to take the rocker off and take out sparks/coils and visually inspect but i did not have enough time Sunday as the football was on mid afternoon.. even with being up early for F1 biggrin but iv added another video below so you can hear the idle, again quality not great on sound as its off my phone but hopefully its enough to give you guys an idea.. i have booked the car in for next week and may go for new airbox and hopefully sort coil/HT leads or whatever too and she will be all ready for the summer !! (click to redirect)



nawarne

3,126 posts

275 months

Tuesday 18th March 2014
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The splits in the bottom half of the airbox are not significant - and the separation at the throttle body 'throats' will not affect the running either. However, the t.b throat damage will allow air to by-pass the filter - so you'll be getting 'dirty' air into the relevant cylinder. In dusty conditions, this is not good. The engine will run pretty happily with the airbox completely removed.

Both bits of damage can be repaired using an epoxy glue with the components clamped in some manner. It may not be pretty, but it will avoid having to get a new (hard to find and expensive -£400), airbox, for the time being. The air/fuel ratio is purely determined by the adjustment on each individual throttle body using a syncrometer to measure the air volume entering each cylinder and then adjusting the butterfly opening to reach a given value. Can be done at home, but best left to someone experienced.

As mentioned, I'd look at the HT leads and coil pack, both relatively easy to do. Can you find out the last time they were changed? Also, make sure the spark plug/HT lead cover plate is well sealed. If/when you take it off make sure it is BONE dry in the recess. I've heard folks say to remove the HT leads and put them in the airing cupboard for 12/24 hours to really dry them out. I have a feeling from your description that it's sparks that are the issue here.
Nick

benny4x

203 posts

147 months

Tuesday 18th March 2014
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hi i've only got a standard mk.1 tuscan,but your symptoms sound exactly like mine when i first got it.The long and short of it was i changed the plugs and ht leads and problem solved!never done it since!

Billiam

Original Poster:

135 posts

137 months

Tuesday 18th March 2014
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Thank you both for your replies. Very good to hear it seems to be a relatively simple/cheap fix.. is the airbox worth replacing for the carbon fibre one ? It reads on the website it can provide up to 5lbs of extra torque with 'trumpets' anyone verify this ? As i dont understand what the trumpets will achieve ?? Improved airflow into the throttle body ? Seems so simple but then iv always thought 'rifling' my induction pipe on my Alfas would give a couple extra horses.. I dont mind spending on it now to get it done and figure a CF one will never need replacing ?

I am digging out my invoice for 12k service now to check on sparks, if they were done - more likely back to HT leads and coils.. but thanks again folks smile i shall keep you all posted ! As mentioned above, maybe wet from weather as first week of ownership she was in the street as i was waiting to clear one of my garages/find space elswhere - now she nicely stowed away in her own little dry room.. so HT leads first port of call it would seem !!

Noisy

4,489 posts

292 months

Wednesday 19th March 2014
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Worth checking the spark plug cover has been resealed if it was serviced, if they aren't sealed then water can get ii around the leads and plugs and cause a misfire. I'd be guessing its coil pack, they seem to break down after a while and often cause larger misfires.

Sagi Badger

621 posts

208 months

Wednesday 19th March 2014
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Ummmh, sounds like a throttle part open. Lets air by on run on hence more pops n bangs and weakens mixture on pick up hence hesitation. Agree with others that really service should pick up these items. I trust only one mechanic with my cars.

Get the throttles balanced and adaptives reset. You can do yourself but if you are unsure take it to someone who knows. throttle plates will look almost closed at idle and should all lift together in sync.

J

Billiam

Original Poster:

135 posts

137 months

Thursday 20th March 2014
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Thanks both for your input.. i personally feel its likely the coils as the mechanic who done the work on the car, come highly recommended. It was worked on at SD AutoTec in Yorkshire ? The car was great when i pick it up, so i believe its definately a 'new' problem but i have it booked in at ForzaGB next week so we shall see then.. I just want to make sure she's all set to go when the weather breaks, today being first day of spring and all biggrin