Can a lifetime tracker rate mortgage be withdrawn?
Discussion
I have a mortgage with IF - great rate I got back in 2007. It was BoE base rate + 0.19% for 3 years then BoE base rate + 0.62% for the remainder of the mortgage.
However in recent years IF have been pulling out of the mortgage market to become a savings-only arm of Lloyds Banking Group. First they stopped offering mortgages to new customers. Then they stopped existing mortgage holders porting the mortgage from one property to another. Then most recently they stopped exisitng mortgagees from applying for further advances.
But can they go full hog and withdraw existing lifetime rates from cuctomers?
However in recent years IF have been pulling out of the mortgage market to become a savings-only arm of Lloyds Banking Group. First they stopped offering mortgages to new customers. Then they stopped existing mortgage holders porting the mortgage from one property to another. Then most recently they stopped exisitng mortgagees from applying for further advances.
But can they go full hog and withdraw existing lifetime rates from cuctomers?
The original loan offer should define all T's and C's. I doubt they can cancel your agreement without just cause (i.e.you are in breach).
What they are doing instead is making it as difficult as possible for you to retain it, and thus acheiving the highest possible rate of "voluntary" migration to other lenders.
They are not alone.
Nice rate though!!
What they are doing instead is making it as difficult as possible for you to retain it, and thus acheiving the highest possible rate of "voluntary" migration to other lenders.
They are not alone.
Nice rate though!!
As Paco said, they are just doing their very best to back you into a corner and having to redeem the mortgage, which is not suprising given the amount of customers they probably have paying next to nothing on hundreds of thousands of pounds of debt!
Unless they go bump, I can't see them ever being able to touch your rate.
Unless they go bump, I can't see them ever being able to touch your rate.
tom2019 said:
How did you all get such low rates??
There were some very good trackers around in 2007. At the time it looked like the BoE rate was about to go through the roof but it did the exact opposite, the banks gamble didnt pay off and loads of people are sitting on deals paying almost nothing in interest.Sarnie said:
As Paco said, they are just doing their very best to back you into a corner and having to redeem the mortgage...
Yeah, I kinda get the same feeling from one of my lenders - UCB...I have 4 buy-to-lets that I have had for a while now, 10 years or so.
In 2008, things got very difficult for me - and hence, I have had a nightmare which has totally trashed my previously gold-plated credit rating.
Despite this, and with a lot of hard work and sacrifice, I have manged to hold onto my rental properties (so far) as I have put so much work and £££'s into them for so long, trying to build myself a little something for retirement, that I am damn well gonna give them up only when I am dead!!!
Anyway. All of the 'deals' I had on those 4 mortgages ran out a good few years ago now. 3 of the lenders have been playing ball, and despite me then having to go onto their 'standard variable rate' - they've pitched their rates at something not a million miles away from the BoE base rate as it currently stands.
Hence, I have been able to hang onto my houses in the meantime.
But not UCB. Oh no. The greedy t
ts reverted me onto their 'SVR' a while ago when the initial deal ended (which was a bit crap to start with - but all I could get at the time, as the recession was in full-swing).For the last 2 years, I have been paying them 5.9%, despite a BoE rate of 0.5% as we all know.
From time to time I call them and ask if there's anything I can change to - only to be met with a brick wall and 'we don't do any new business, and if you can't keep up the repayments, then I am afraid we will re-possess the property...'
The rental market for this particular property has also suffered massively - so the income is short of the bloody mortgage and I have to subsidise it.
Ok, I signed up to it, etc. But it does annoy me - this is blatant profiteering when other lenders are observing the base rate. Takes the piss!
Sarnie said:
Unfortunately, unless it says in your offer that the SVR is directly related to the base rate, then they can do what they want with their SVR.
It's also worth noting that most other BTL lenders SVR's are currently circa 5.99% anyway so your not really missing out......
I know, I do get this - as said, I signed up to the T's and C's...so my tough titty.It's also worth noting that most other BTL lenders SVR's are currently circa 5.99% anyway so your not really missing out......
But it annoys me that the other 3 BTL lenders have observed the monstrous reduction in SVR - but that there are still some profiteering parasites who just totally ignore the current situation...even current BTL lenders with 5.99% rates...
I know it's just 'business' and all that - but it's just, to me, yet another example of lenders operating on their own 'profit-centric' business models, regardless of the current economic climate, know what I mean?
Yes, they can do what they like - but the problem comes when capitalism and lending clashes with the 'real world' and never the twain shall meet. We're basically all here for each other in these modern times - and the capitalist business model of 'profit for all' only really works if everyone plays the white man to a certain degree, no?
Once one of the parties starts to be a complete t
t about it all, then everything goes down the pan for everyone, and the whole board-game comes to a crashing halt...Sarnie said:
As Paco said, they are just doing their very best to back you into a corner and having to redeem the mortgage, which is not suprising given the amount of customers they probably have paying next to nothing on hundreds of thousands of pounds of debt!
Unless they go bump, I can't see them ever being able to touch your rate.
I'm in the same deal as Oyster, Unless they go bump, I can't see them ever being able to touch your rate.
They (IF) started by stopping borrowers porting and from what I gather were taken to court by angry borrowers so had to reinstate it, we attempted moving 4 years ago to a smaller house porting the mortgage dropping the amount by 30k but they wouldn't wear it as we 'now did not meet their lending criteria'.
As Oyster says recently they have pulled excess lending pots.
I'll just have to stick living in this pad unless I want to pay £300 a month more to live elsewhere with the same mortgage.
oyster said:
Then they stopped existing mortgage holders porting the mortgage from one property to another.
You should double check this.I have a relative who ported their old mortgage (similar vintage and terms) and was told by their IFA that the regulator takes a dim view of companies not honouring contractual terms so, if there was a contractual port or extend option, you've might actually manage it.
oyster said:
I have a mortgage with IF - great rate I got back in 2007. It was BoE base rate + 0.19% for 3 years then BoE base rate + 0.62% for the remainder of the mortgage.
However in recent years IF have been pulling out of the mortgage market to become a savings-only arm of Lloyds Banking Group. First they stopped offering mortgages to new customers. Then they stopped existing mortgage holders porting the mortgage from one property to another. Then most recently they stopped exisitng mortgagees from applying for further advances.
But can they go full hog and withdraw existing lifetime rates from cuctomers?
I think they'd struggle with a retail product. But the commercial lenders have been up to all sorts of stunts to offload customers. Two British banks owned by a big Australian one have been employing lots of dirty tricks that are shabby even by the standards of bankers.However in recent years IF have been pulling out of the mortgage market to become a savings-only arm of Lloyds Banking Group. First they stopped offering mortgages to new customers. Then they stopped existing mortgage holders porting the mortgage from one property to another. Then most recently they stopped exisitng mortgagees from applying for further advances.
But can they go full hog and withdraw existing lifetime rates from cuctomers?
One ploy they have been employing is to demand immediate revaluations, but using "carefully selected" firms of surveyors in an attempt to force borrowers into breach of covenant.
To apply a PH analogy they are insisting upon Bugatti dealerships conducting valuations on Dacia Sanderos - at the Dacia owner's expense. This is very deliberate obviously. The Dacia owner is having to pay Bugatti rates and the Bugatti dealerships are cautiously valuing the horrid little cheap cars. The bank then says, "Sorry your Dacia isn't worth what you said it was, we lent you money to buy it and we want it back. Tomorrow please."
There is one large firm of surveyors that have been very much in collusion with a major bank screwing over borrowers using the above technique and when I last heard one of the Magic Circle law firms was putting together a class action on behalf of the borrowers. I imagine there will be a settlement before it reaches court.
speedyguy said:
Sarnie said:
As Paco said, they are just doing their very best to back you into a corner and having to redeem the mortgage, which is not suprising given the amount of customers they probably have paying next to nothing on hundreds of thousands of pounds of debt!
Unless they go bump, I can't see them ever being able to touch your rate.
I'm in the same deal as Oyster, Unless they go bump, I can't see them ever being able to touch your rate.
They (IF) started by stopping borrowers porting and from what I gather were taken to court by angry borrowers so had to reinstate it, we attempted moving 4 years ago to a smaller house porting the mortgage dropping the amount by 30k but they wouldn't wear it as we 'now did not meet their lending criteria'.
As Oyster says recently they have pulled excess lending pots.
I'll just have to stick living in this pad unless I want to pay £300 a month more to live elsewhere with the same mortgage.
Still, it's my intention to take advantage of the low rates to build up a pile of cash to pay off a large chunk of the mortgage should they try and call it in some day.
The Bank of Ireland have tried this particular wheeze over the last few years. If you Google "Bank of Ireland Tracker Mortgage", there are quite a number of stories on the subject.
They haven't actually withdrawn anyone's mortgage, but they have hiked the rates despite the "lifetime tracker" pledge. There was a force majeur clause in the T&Cs that allowed them to do this, which they have invoked. They then backed down a bit and let a few people off when they started getting negative publicity but I think they largely got away with it.
It's probably unlikely that IF would try the same after the negative publicity that Bank of Ireland got, but you never know...
They haven't actually withdrawn anyone's mortgage, but they have hiked the rates despite the "lifetime tracker" pledge. There was a force majeur clause in the T&Cs that allowed them to do this, which they have invoked. They then backed down a bit and let a few people off when they started getting negative publicity but I think they largely got away with it.
It's probably unlikely that IF would try the same after the negative publicity that Bank of Ireland got, but you never know...
tom2019 said:
How did you all get such low rates??
Base + 0.24% lifetime tracker in my case (so I disregard everyone on PH who says "overpay the mortgage", as even cash ISA rates are better than 0.74%). I got it by looking around for what I considered the best long-term mortgage deal on offer at the time and ignored all the "two or three year fix then SVR" deals. At the time base rates were around 6% and 4-5% fixes were available, but I regarded taking one of them as being too focused on the short term.My lender (Hinckley and Rugby building society) withdrew the ability to port after I moved, so the "portable" mortgage turned into a "port once" mortgage. They still send me promotional blurb saying that further advances are normally available to borrowers, then when I ask say (I paraphrase) "oh, we didn't mean for people on that product."
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