Time to look seriously. All advice appreciated.
Discussion
Hi everyone,
I've decided that after 7 years with my current employer, its time to start looking at my options.
I've flirted with leaving for probably the last 3 years, but now I want to look at it seriously. I've got a recent CV that I'm happy with, and in the past all I've done is drop it onto Monster and seen what happens. When I've done this I'd usually get a few calls a day, sometimes for something relevant, other times something totally unsuitable. I want to do something a bit more focused now.
I usually have a glance over Monster & CW Jobs, but I'm unsure where the best places are to:
A) Advertise myself
B) Find good roles
I'm willing to relocate anywhere really for the right role (both in the UK and overseas) but it really is about finding the right overall package (for me, my wife, child, dog, etc etc etc). Employer wise I'd be open to smaller companies as well as major multinationals, but I don't want to be doing consultancy driving all over the country/flying all over the world. I did the whole driving around the UK thing for a while, and it isn't compatible with the quality of family life I want.
In an ideal world, I'd be in a company where I was really able to make a difference, not be bogged down in useless process and procedure - rich coming from someone who does ITSM, but make it fit for purpose and it does work ! - and if there was an opportunity to work overseas for that country with a full relocation in the future, that would be great.
I've got over 10 years experience in the specialism I currently work in (IT Service Management, mainly focused around relationship management between IT and internal business units) and ideally I'd like to do something similar. I enjoy getting people what they need from IT, and ensuring IT actually understand what the business wants.
Over to you guys, interested to hear your thoughts.
I've decided that after 7 years with my current employer, its time to start looking at my options.
I've flirted with leaving for probably the last 3 years, but now I want to look at it seriously. I've got a recent CV that I'm happy with, and in the past all I've done is drop it onto Monster and seen what happens. When I've done this I'd usually get a few calls a day, sometimes for something relevant, other times something totally unsuitable. I want to do something a bit more focused now.
I usually have a glance over Monster & CW Jobs, but I'm unsure where the best places are to:
A) Advertise myself
B) Find good roles
I'm willing to relocate anywhere really for the right role (both in the UK and overseas) but it really is about finding the right overall package (for me, my wife, child, dog, etc etc etc). Employer wise I'd be open to smaller companies as well as major multinationals, but I don't want to be doing consultancy driving all over the country/flying all over the world. I did the whole driving around the UK thing for a while, and it isn't compatible with the quality of family life I want.
In an ideal world, I'd be in a company where I was really able to make a difference, not be bogged down in useless process and procedure - rich coming from someone who does ITSM, but make it fit for purpose and it does work ! - and if there was an opportunity to work overseas for that country with a full relocation in the future, that would be great.
I've got over 10 years experience in the specialism I currently work in (IT Service Management, mainly focused around relationship management between IT and internal business units) and ideally I'd like to do something similar. I enjoy getting people what they need from IT, and ensuring IT actually understand what the business wants.
Over to you guys, interested to hear your thoughts.
pad58 said:
It's good if you can get your family to go with you, mine won't budge, missed a few opportunities because she would not come with me.
The next time one comes up ,I going, she can stay here.
Other half is happy to relocate worldwide. We'd love the US, but at this time I think based on research thus far we need to do a jump first elsewhere to enable it.The next time one comes up ,I going, she can stay here.
Industry wise, I work in Govt at the moment, but want to try something new, happy to consider any sector, but my strengths are IT Service Management, specifically around Relationship Management. Most of what I do is senior escalations and ensuring the service in question is running according to the SLA/defining the SLA etc etc. Ultimately its making sure we give the business what they want from IT, and that what they want is realistic.
Have a look at Holland - they value the type of work/life ethic you are looking for, lots of English speaking jobs there in your skillset with multinationals, International schools for the kids.
We lived there for 6 years (no kids though) and loved it.
Jobserve etc should give you the feel for whats around
We lived there for 6 years (no kids though) and loved it.
Jobserve etc should give you the feel for whats around
conanius said:
pad58 said:
It's good if you can get your family to go with you, mine won't budge, missed a few opportunities because she would not come with me.
The next time one comes up ,I going, she can stay here.
Other half is happy to relocate worldwide. We'd love the US, but at this time I think based on research thus far we need to do a jump first elsewhere to enable it.The next time one comes up ,I going, she can stay here.
Industry wise, I work in Govt at the moment, but want to try something new, happy to consider any sector, but my strengths are IT Service Management, specifically around Relationship Management. Most of what I do is senior escalations and ensuring the service in question is running according to the SLA/defining the SLA etc etc. Ultimately its making sure we give the business what they want from IT, and that what they want is realistic.
We moved significant distances (at least 150 miles each time) when I was 4, 11 and 14.
I'm 43 now, and despite my parents having been perfectly loving and supportive in every other way, I still hugely resent being dragged away from my friends every time I made them and being left with no real roots anywhere.
Between starting work and having my first child (9 years), I move house 4 times to progress my career, but the whole way along, I always knew that as soon as I had kids of my own, that was it. I was staying put where I was until the kids had grown up. That was 11 years ago, and since then we've moved house once more, a mile down the road to a larger property.
I've subsequently declined several opportunities because I'm not prepared to uproot my kids for the sake of my career, and I've never once even vaguely regretted it.
Of course, all of the above varies somewhat if you live in the arse end of rural nowhere, as it's hard to stick somewhere you can't get work, but if that's the case I'd still be going in with the idea of one move and one move only.
There's a position coming up at our work for a 3rd party support analyst. I do it currently (moving roles). It involves looking after our CRM and other 3rd party solutions (there's a lot). There's also a lot of work to be done with relationship management and building the relationship between IT and the business folk. I'll PM you the job advert when i see if go up on total jobs if you're interested!
Kermit power said:
Depending on how old your child currently is, please give serious thought to their future before deciding to relocate just for a job!
We moved significant distances (at least 150 miles each time) when I was 4, 11 and 14.
I'm 43 now, and despite my parents having been perfectly loving and supportive in every other way, I still hugely resent being dragged away from my friends every time I made them and being left with no real roots anywhere.
Between starting work and having my first child (9 years), I move house 4 times to progress my career, but the whole way along, I always knew that as soon as I had kids of my own, that was it. I was staying put where I was until the kids had grown up. That was 11 years ago, and since then we've moved house once more, a mile down the road to a larger property.
I've subsequently declined several opportunities because I'm not prepared to uproot my kids for the sake of my career, and I've never once even vaguely regretted it.
Of course, all of the above varies somewhat if you live in the arse end of rural nowhere, as it's hard to stick somewhere you can't get work, but if that's the case I'd still be going in with the idea of one move and one move only.
Appreciate your honesty on this one.We moved significant distances (at least 150 miles each time) when I was 4, 11 and 14.
I'm 43 now, and despite my parents having been perfectly loving and supportive in every other way, I still hugely resent being dragged away from my friends every time I made them and being left with no real roots anywhere.
Between starting work and having my first child (9 years), I move house 4 times to progress my career, but the whole way along, I always knew that as soon as I had kids of my own, that was it. I was staying put where I was until the kids had grown up. That was 11 years ago, and since then we've moved house once more, a mile down the road to a larger property.
I've subsequently declined several opportunities because I'm not prepared to uproot my kids for the sake of my career, and I've never once even vaguely regretted it.
Of course, all of the above varies somewhat if you live in the arse end of rural nowhere, as it's hard to stick somewhere you can't get work, but if that's the case I'd still be going in with the idea of one move and one move only.
Our little one is nearly 3 months old, so our view was relocation now is easier (schools etc) for him, but we need to consider the 'family factor' too.
I'm not going to relocate to the other end of the world just to tick a box, it would have to be the right role in the right location, but again, your views are important to note. Getting some form of foundation for the future is important to us.
conanius said:
Appreciate your honesty on this one.
Our little one is nearly 3 months old, so our view was relocation now is easier (schools etc) for him, but we need to consider the 'family factor' too.
I'm not going to relocate to the other end of the world just to tick a box, it would have to be the right role in the right location, but again, your views are important to note. Getting some form of foundation for the future is important to us.
Fair enough at that age, as the kid isn't going to remember anyway! Our little one is nearly 3 months old, so our view was relocation now is easier (schools etc) for him, but we need to consider the 'family factor' too.
I'm not going to relocate to the other end of the world just to tick a box, it would have to be the right role in the right location, but again, your views are important to note. Getting some form of foundation for the future is important to us.
Family factor is also relevant in terms of distance from other family members, I find. My wife had a similar amount of movement in her childhood, and our parents currently live 2+ hours away. Obviously how close you'd want to live to your parents depends hugely on how well you get on with them, but when I look at friends who have their parents nearby, it certainly does seem to make life far easier and less stressful in terms of occasional babysitting, school runs and the like.
richatnort said:
There's a position coming up at our work for a 3rd party support analyst. I do it currently (moving roles). It involves looking after our CRM and other 3rd party solutions (there's a lot). There's also a lot of work to be done with relationship management and building the relationship between IT and the business folk. I'll PM you the job advert when i see if go up on total jobs if you're interested!
Thanks for the reply, appreciated.Certainly interested to hear more, however...
I'll risk being incredibly rude and saying - unless your company like every other seems to have its own interpretation of what analyst/manager/team leader/etc is, I'm possibly looking at a more senior role. That is incredibly risky for me to say without knowing anything about the role, but I think honesty is incredibly important. You are looking to do me a favour, and I'm looking not to waste your time and effort.
I've been incredibly fortunate in making consistently strong progress in my career thus far, and I wouldn't want to waste anyones time looking at something unsuitable for all.
That said, I've seen 'service management analyst' and pay scales from £15,000 to £65,000 just as much as I've seen 'service management manager' pay scales on exactly the same range.
So, TLDR, please send me the specs
Thank youAnd proof in my above statement.
Contacted by a recruitment consultant about my availability, spoke through my experience, usual spiel that he's got a great relationship with the HR person doing the recruiting etc, and I'm asked about my interested in a Delivery Analyst role starting on £60k. Read the job spec, it reads like a Senior Delivery Manager
It would be lovely if we could get some proper structure around job titles
Contacted by a recruitment consultant about my availability, spoke through my experience, usual spiel that he's got a great relationship with the HR person doing the recruiting etc, and I'm asked about my interested in a Delivery Analyst role starting on £60k. Read the job spec, it reads like a Senior Delivery Manager
It would be lovely if we could get some proper structure around job titles
conanius said:
Thanks for the reply, appreciated.
Certainly interested to hear more, however...
I'll risk being incredibly rude and saying - unless your company like every other seems to have its own interpretation of what analyst/manager/team leader/etc is, I'm possibly looking at a more senior role. That is incredibly risky for me to say without knowing anything about the role, but I think honesty is incredibly important. You are looking to do me a favour, and I'm looking not to waste your time and effort.
I've been incredibly fortunate in making consistently strong progress in my career thus far, and I wouldn't want to waste anyones time looking at something unsuitable for all.
That said, I've seen 'service management analyst' and pay scales from £15,000 to £65,000 just as much as I've seen 'service management manager' pay scales on exactly the same range.
So, TLDR, please send me the specs Thank you
No i totally understand what you mean. I know that the other person doing the role is on around 30-35k a year. It's a fairly new team but it's going to grow in a year or so as the company are buying more and more 3rd party applications. Once i've digged the spec out for it i'll PM you it to take a look at. Certainly interested to hear more, however...
I'll risk being incredibly rude and saying - unless your company like every other seems to have its own interpretation of what analyst/manager/team leader/etc is, I'm possibly looking at a more senior role. That is incredibly risky for me to say without knowing anything about the role, but I think honesty is incredibly important. You are looking to do me a favour, and I'm looking not to waste your time and effort.
I've been incredibly fortunate in making consistently strong progress in my career thus far, and I wouldn't want to waste anyones time looking at something unsuitable for all.
That said, I've seen 'service management analyst' and pay scales from £15,000 to £65,000 just as much as I've seen 'service management manager' pay scales on exactly the same range.
So, TLDR, please send me the specs
Thank youThought I'd give an update.
2 applications, 2 successful telephone interviews, 2 face to face interviews booked in.
2 other expressions of interest through recruitment consultants being progressed.
Not a bad start, both of the face to face interviews are with companies I'd love to work in, both look like fantastic opportunities. Incredible how much work is out there and how high the demand is.
2 applications, 2 successful telephone interviews, 2 face to face interviews booked in.
2 other expressions of interest through recruitment consultants being progressed.
Not a bad start, both of the face to face interviews are with companies I'd love to work in, both look like fantastic opportunities. Incredible how much work is out there and how high the demand is.
conanius said:
Thought I'd give an update.
2 applications, 2 successful telephone interviews, 2 face to face interviews booked in.
2 other expressions of interest through recruitment consultants being progressed.
Not a bad start, both of the face to face interviews are with companies I'd love to work in, both look like fantastic opportunities. Incredible how much work is out there and how high the demand is.
Fancy telling us the companies?2 applications, 2 successful telephone interviews, 2 face to face interviews booked in.
2 other expressions of interest through recruitment consultants being progressed.
Not a bad start, both of the face to face interviews are with companies I'd love to work in, both look like fantastic opportunities. Incredible how much work is out there and how high the demand is.
richatnort said:
Fancy telling us the companies?
Based on the fact I've done plenty of research as to who will be interviewing me online, I think it might be a shade crazy to post anything online linking them until I'm sat at the desk of a new employer No disrespect intended for the PH 'massive' but I think being please with my situation is one thing, bragging the companies and positions - when some of the campaigns are still open ! - is another
What I will say is they are all household names, and I've been incredibly impressed with the efficiency of them all. Sometimes you feel like you are doing them a favour turning up to interview, and the opposite is definitely the case in these instances.
conanius said:
Thought I'd give an update.
2 applications, 2 successful telephone interviews, 2 face to face interviews booked in.
2 other expressions of interest through recruitment consultants being progressed.
Not a bad start, both of the face to face interviews are with companies I'd love to work in, both look like fantastic opportunities. Incredible how much work is out there and how high the demand is.
Funny how nobody has jumped all over your thread to state how cr*p the job market is, how cr*p the response is from the companies, how useless the recruiting process is, how cr*p the agencies are. Good luck and it's good to hear of good experiences. It also goes to show that those who are not having the initial success that you are could do well to look at themselves and critique their own interview performance and CV. 2 applications, 2 successful telephone interviews, 2 face to face interviews booked in.
2 other expressions of interest through recruitment consultants being progressed.
Not a bad start, both of the face to face interviews are with companies I'd love to work in, both look like fantastic opportunities. Incredible how much work is out there and how high the demand is.
edc said:
Funny how nobody has jumped all over your thread to state how cr*p the job market is, how cr*p the response is from the companies, how useless the recruiting process is, how cr*p the agencies are. Good luck and it's good to hear of good experiences. It also goes to show that those who are not having the initial success that you are could do well to look at themselves and critique their own interview performance and CV.
I really spent time on my cv, and got some friends who are in senior roles to give me some mentoring and coaching, asking difficult questions and pushing hard on my answers.The cv is everything. I'm slightly guilty in that mine is over 2 pages, but I spent a lot of time on presentation and layout as well as content, grammar and spelling. I ensured page 3 was 'boring' stuff like driving licence etc
I spent plenty of time researching the companies I had the telephone interviews in, and dropped in comments about them in answers to questions like 'why work here' 'why this role' 'where in 5 years'
Thanks for the comment though, appreciated.
Kermit power said:
Depending on how old your child currently is, please give serious thought to their future before deciding to relocate just for a job!
We moved significant distances (at least 150 miles each time) when I was 4, 11 and 14.
I'm 43 now, and despite my parents having been perfectly loving and supportive in every other way, I still hugely resent being dragged away from my friends every time I made them and being left with no real roots anywhere.
Between starting work and having my first child (9 years), I move house 4 times to progress my career, but the whole way along, I always knew that as soon as I had kids of my own, that was it. I was staying put where I was until the kids had grown up. That was 11 years ago, and since then we've moved house once more, a mile down the road to a larger property.
I've subsequently declined several opportunities because I'm not prepared to uproot my kids for the sake of my career, and I've never once even vaguely regretted it.
Of course, all of the above varies somewhat if you live in the arse end of rural nowhere, as it's hard to stick somewhere you can't get work, but if that's the case I'd still be going in with the idea of one move and one move only.
Interesting viewpoint, though one I am totally contrary to (at risk of de-railing this somewhat). Like you, my father's job moved us around a lot, as children. I think his motivation was more necessity than advancement in that I am one of eight children and I suspect he chased the promotions to keep us all fed and clothed. We moved six times over the space of 13 years - each move meaning new school, new start and we lived in Glocs, Berks, Essex, Tyneside, Notts and Yorks.We moved significant distances (at least 150 miles each time) when I was 4, 11 and 14.
I'm 43 now, and despite my parents having been perfectly loving and supportive in every other way, I still hugely resent being dragged away from my friends every time I made them and being left with no real roots anywhere.
Between starting work and having my first child (9 years), I move house 4 times to progress my career, but the whole way along, I always knew that as soon as I had kids of my own, that was it. I was staying put where I was until the kids had grown up. That was 11 years ago, and since then we've moved house once more, a mile down the road to a larger property.
I've subsequently declined several opportunities because I'm not prepared to uproot my kids for the sake of my career, and I've never once even vaguely regretted it.
Of course, all of the above varies somewhat if you live in the arse end of rural nowhere, as it's hard to stick somewhere you can't get work, but if that's the case I'd still be going in with the idea of one move and one move only.
Granted, it was a pain in the arse to repeatedly go through the process of being "the new kid", but I think it positively shaped me and all of my siblings. It gave us a broader perspective of life, confidence, gregariousness and good people skills - because we had to learn how to make new friends and adapt to new unfamiliar situations. Maybe it's coincidence, but we have all done OK in later life and are appreciative of the childhood our parents provided. Some of my old friends who were born/bred in one location have shared with me that they feel they somehow missed out on life by being tethered to one place throughout their formative years.
Hi all,
Thought I'd give an update after face to face interview 1.
Totally not how I thought it would go, but it was brilliant. I can honestly say, if I don't get the role I was not the right person. I ended up chatting 1-2-1 with who would be my manager for nearly 2 hours, and it was far beyond the scope of the role. Our views on issues, about our families, everything. Absolutely amazing experience and very revealing about what I really want. I didn't leave anything out, and know if I don't get it, that is right for all concerned.
If I'm offered the role and the numbers look good, I'll certainly be looking favourably on it. Company felt like the right environment for me, and there was plenty of honesty about the situation the team is in. I've never had a better feel for what a job would be at interview before.
So, bizarre as at the end there was a point where we realised we hadn't done the competancy assessment and needed to put something for hr, but yeah... Brilliant experience.
Thought I'd give an update after face to face interview 1.
Totally not how I thought it would go, but it was brilliant. I can honestly say, if I don't get the role I was not the right person. I ended up chatting 1-2-1 with who would be my manager for nearly 2 hours, and it was far beyond the scope of the role. Our views on issues, about our families, everything. Absolutely amazing experience and very revealing about what I really want. I didn't leave anything out, and know if I don't get it, that is right for all concerned.
If I'm offered the role and the numbers look good, I'll certainly be looking favourably on it. Company felt like the right environment for me, and there was plenty of honesty about the situation the team is in. I've never had a better feel for what a job would be at interview before.
So, bizarre as at the end there was a point where we realised we hadn't done the competancy assessment and needed to put something for hr, but yeah... Brilliant experience.
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