Cayenne Diesel - to air or not to air?
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm on the verge of buying a Cayenne Diesel (the baby V6 - I've got a 996 turbo for when I want to go quickly
)
I am wrestling with the question of PASM+Air, versus just PASM with steel springs. I've driven both, albeit with 20" wheels with PASM, and 21"s with air, and did find that the ride quality was a little better with the air suspension, despite the larger wheels. However the thing I noticed more was that with air, putting the dampers into Sport mode resulted in a much firmer ride, but also more controlled handling. Doing the same with the PASM-only setup resulted in a ride which was firmer but also quite a bit crashier; it felt a bit over-damped, in other words. In Normal mode, on the 20" wheels I'm going to order, the ride for both felt fine.
I am interested in subjective views from owners of both PASM or air equipped cars, on what they are like to live with over a longer period. Given I'm spending the thick end of 60 grand on a car that I'm going to keep for up to 5 years, I worry that if I don't just shell out the extra for air, I'll always question whether I should have bitten the bullet!
The same goes for whether it's worth spending almost £2k more on full leather interior, given it will always be the base model, but that's a different question!
Pete
(and yes, I know there's a 2015 revision on the way for the Cayenne after the summer, but the deals around at the moment mean I'll probably pay £7-8k less for one of the last of the MY14 cars with similar spec, which feels like a deal worth going for)
I'm on the verge of buying a Cayenne Diesel (the baby V6 - I've got a 996 turbo for when I want to go quickly
)I am wrestling with the question of PASM+Air, versus just PASM with steel springs. I've driven both, albeit with 20" wheels with PASM, and 21"s with air, and did find that the ride quality was a little better with the air suspension, despite the larger wheels. However the thing I noticed more was that with air, putting the dampers into Sport mode resulted in a much firmer ride, but also more controlled handling. Doing the same with the PASM-only setup resulted in a ride which was firmer but also quite a bit crashier; it felt a bit over-damped, in other words. In Normal mode, on the 20" wheels I'm going to order, the ride for both felt fine.
I am interested in subjective views from owners of both PASM or air equipped cars, on what they are like to live with over a longer period. Given I'm spending the thick end of 60 grand on a car that I'm going to keep for up to 5 years, I worry that if I don't just shell out the extra for air, I'll always question whether I should have bitten the bullet!
The same goes for whether it's worth spending almost £2k more on full leather interior, given it will always be the base model, but that's a different question!
Pete
(and yes, I know there's a 2015 revision on the way for the Cayenne after the summer, but the deals around at the moment mean I'll probably pay £7-8k less for one of the last of the MY14 cars with similar spec, which feels like a deal worth going for)
Pete
I took the full leather option, I just felt it made the cabin feel a more quality place to be and don't regret it for a minute.
I went with the 21" Turbo wheels, I also had the same question as you regarding air. I drove both cars with and without air and found it difficult to decide as I would have had PASM. The air was about £1300 extra over having standard with PASM. Many say that a car with air will have a better resale value but I don't buy into that trail of thought. I went with the air in the end and I find the ride quality slightly disappointing, on my 21" wheels the car never comes out of comfort, even if I press the sport button I change the suspension to comfort as I find the other settings too harsh.
I have put 18" wheels with winter tyres on for the Winter Period and the car rides the best in normal mode, comfort mode doesn't seem to suit at all.
I was very close to going down the New Range Rover Sport route before I had the Cayenne and relibility was the main reason why I went for the Cayenne but the ride quality of the Range Rover compared to the Cayenne is in a completely different league.
Would I order air suspension next time, the answer would be no.
I can recommend the parking heater though, great bit of kit!
I took the full leather option, I just felt it made the cabin feel a more quality place to be and don't regret it for a minute.
I went with the 21" Turbo wheels, I also had the same question as you regarding air. I drove both cars with and without air and found it difficult to decide as I would have had PASM. The air was about £1300 extra over having standard with PASM. Many say that a car with air will have a better resale value but I don't buy into that trail of thought. I went with the air in the end and I find the ride quality slightly disappointing, on my 21" wheels the car never comes out of comfort, even if I press the sport button I change the suspension to comfort as I find the other settings too harsh.
I have put 18" wheels with winter tyres on for the Winter Period and the car rides the best in normal mode, comfort mode doesn't seem to suit at all.
I was very close to going down the New Range Rover Sport route before I had the Cayenne and relibility was the main reason why I went for the Cayenne but the ride quality of the Range Rover compared to the Cayenne is in a completely different league.
Would I order air suspension next time, the answer would be no.
I can recommend the parking heater though, great bit of kit!
Hi I had the same dichotomy, in the end I went for PASM and steel springs with 20 inch wheels. About 9 months in I have no regrets. On the atrocious road of London/Surrey I tend to use the car in comfort mode most of the time, and go to sport for motorway/spirited driving. I think the reality is if you need to change ride height then its worth having air, if not its probably not worth. For a big vehicle you can still throw it around (relative to size etc) surprisingly well. I haven't noticed any crashing etc.
Rob
Rob
Cyb1967 said:
iInteresting as looking at one of these Cayenne Platinum Diesel special editions, they seem good value has anybody negotiated a deal on these at an OPC?
Ask me next week! On a serious note, my OPC strongly hinted there was a discount to be had on list, even on the already discounted Platinum Edition. I'm not expecting to pay full price, but nor am I expecting a BMW X5-style 9%!Thanks for the feedback on air suspension from everyone who replied. You've confirmed my suspicions; I think it's going to be PASM and full leather interior rather than air. I also tried a new Range Rover Sport (an HSE Dynamic), and was blown away by its ride comfort compared to the Cayenne, but then it was also nowhere near as agile-feeling to drive. Good to hear that I'm not missing out on RRS-style comfort by going for steel springs.
Cheers,
Pete
When I was researching Cayenne vehicles/options the techs at the dealer, one who owned Cayenne, told me to get the air suspension. I was looking at a vehicle to use to carry my elderly parents and he said the ability to lower the vehicle to make it easier for mobility impaired people to get in and out of was worth it. Oh, he bought it because his wife and young kids find it easier to get in/out of the vehicle.
rbh said:
Hi I had the same dichotomy, in the end I went for PASM and steel springs with 20 inch wheels. About 9 months in I have no regrets. On the atrocious road of London/Surrey I tend to use the car in comfort mode most of the time, and go to sport for motorway/spirited driving. I think the reality is if you need to change ride height then its worth having air, if not its probably not worth. For a big vehicle you can still throw it around (relative to size etc) surprisingly well. I haven't noticed any crashing etc.
Rob
Me too, save your cash. Necessity is a myth borne of the old model. Rob
Rockster said:
When I was researching Cayenne vehicles/options the techs at the dealer, one who owned Cayenne, told me to get the air suspension. I was looking at a vehicle to use to carry my elderly parents and he said the ability to lower the vehicle to make it easier for mobility impaired people to get in and out of was worth it. Oh, he bought it because his wife and young kids find it easier to get in/out of the vehicle.
+1That's what mine has been used for. It works well and, if you need extra clearance for any reason, you can raise the car.
Cyb1967 said:
Have gone for Platinum Edition Cayenne Diesel got a very good discount and p/x on my 911, much better deal than a Macan.
Ok I'll bite, care to share some numbers? As I said in another thread a platinum edition cayenne available now is far better value/cheaper in our circumstances than waiting for a December delivery for a Macan. Hell if I choose the right OPC even a summer delivery of the cayenne facelift could be a better deal than the Macan.Great car! I think PASM + Air suspension is worth it and would spec it again for cars with 20" wheels or larger. Wouldn’t order it for the 18" wheels but they don’t look so great in my opinion.
The way I was told is this: steel is ok with 18", air is recommended with 20", air is required with 21".
My only concern was the long-term durability of the air-suspension, but the car will be replaced relatively soon so no regrets. I leave it in comfort with 20" most of the time because to me there was barely a noticeable change in handling/body roll from comfort to sport, but the difference in ride quality is immense.
Other things I would definitely order again:
+ PCM (I heard the cars without PCM have no digital screen in the instrument cluster? I never saw one without it…)
+ Leather option (the dashboard looks shocking without it, not far from a mallorca rental car)
+ Laminated Glass
+ PDLS (for the cornering light)
+ Multifunction steering wheel
+ heated steering wheel (replaces the park heater in our case)
+ Bose (doesn’t sound great but I definitely wouldn’t want it to sound worse)
I didn’t notice how great the glass is until I drove a friends Cayenne Diesel without that option and it sounded extremely rough. The car is so much quieter with the laminated glass, it was almost like driving a car with a different engine. Makes the car feel much more S-Class than lowly Diesel, if you know what I mean.
In my eyes this is an absolute must-have.
Note that the Cayenne Diesel comes with a laminated front window as standard to reduce the diesel noise, but having it all around helps even more.
Options I would not order again:
- Panorama Sunroof (loved it in my smaller cars but in this car I find it is only useful for the rear passengers, also the car cools down very quickly with the AC + insulating glass)
- Vented Seats (I found that this gives us backache every time on a hot summer days. The lowest settings is nice for very long trips, but not worth the price)
Options I don’t have and will get next time:
+ Rear Parking camera (the front + rear radar display is decent but the rear visibility is shocking)
+ Adaptive Cruise Control (I thought it would be possible to adjust the cruise control via the multifunction wheel, but you can’t and I don’t like the way the Porsche Crusie Control Stick works)
edit: I just looked up the platinum edition and it sounds like a great deal compared to what I payed back near the launch. Seems like it includes most of the "essentials".
The way I was told is this: steel is ok with 18", air is recommended with 20", air is required with 21".
My only concern was the long-term durability of the air-suspension, but the car will be replaced relatively soon so no regrets. I leave it in comfort with 20" most of the time because to me there was barely a noticeable change in handling/body roll from comfort to sport, but the difference in ride quality is immense.
Other things I would definitely order again:
+ PCM (I heard the cars without PCM have no digital screen in the instrument cluster? I never saw one without it…)
+ Leather option (the dashboard looks shocking without it, not far from a mallorca rental car)
+ Laminated Glass
+ PDLS (for the cornering light)
+ Multifunction steering wheel
+ heated steering wheel (replaces the park heater in our case)
+ Bose (doesn’t sound great but I definitely wouldn’t want it to sound worse)
I didn’t notice how great the glass is until I drove a friends Cayenne Diesel without that option and it sounded extremely rough. The car is so much quieter with the laminated glass, it was almost like driving a car with a different engine. Makes the car feel much more S-Class than lowly Diesel, if you know what I mean.
In my eyes this is an absolute must-have.
Note that the Cayenne Diesel comes with a laminated front window as standard to reduce the diesel noise, but having it all around helps even more.
Options I would not order again:
- Panorama Sunroof (loved it in my smaller cars but in this car I find it is only useful for the rear passengers, also the car cools down very quickly with the AC + insulating glass)
- Vented Seats (I found that this gives us backache every time on a hot summer days. The lowest settings is nice for very long trips, but not worth the price)
Options I don’t have and will get next time:
+ Rear Parking camera (the front + rear radar display is decent but the rear visibility is shocking)
+ Adaptive Cruise Control (I thought it would be possible to adjust the cruise control via the multifunction wheel, but you can’t and I don’t like the way the Porsche Crusie Control Stick works)
edit: I just looked up the platinum edition and it sounds like a great deal compared to what I payed back near the launch. Seems like it includes most of the "essentials".
Edited by EricE on Friday 31st January 00:39
Thanks Eric, that's really interesting feedback. I'm still agonising about the air suspension question, but am sold on the full leather interior; I've had enough of plastic dashboards for life from BMWs, even my old GT3 had leather everything (leather covered sun visors, anyone?!). I did like the panoramic roof though, having had one for the past 6 years, but it's a load of money.
I was really impressed with the refinement of the car without laminated glass when I borrowed one for the weekend, so I think I'll pass on that. I'm also going to buck the trend, and will pass on Bose. Maybe my standards are too high from home audio experience, but having had Harmon Kardon in the BMW, and Bose in my 996, the base stereo in a PCM-equipped Cayenne sounded more than enough for MP3s and Radio 4, given the challenges of overcoming tyre and wind noise. And no, I'm not going to get into a Bose+laminated glass argument, my pockets are far from bottomless
Thanks again,
Pete
I was really impressed with the refinement of the car without laminated glass when I borrowed one for the weekend, so I think I'll pass on that. I'm also going to buck the trend, and will pass on Bose. Maybe my standards are too high from home audio experience, but having had Harmon Kardon in the BMW, and Bose in my 996, the base stereo in a PCM-equipped Cayenne sounded more than enough for MP3s and Radio 4, given the challenges of overcoming tyre and wind noise. And no, I'm not going to get into a Bose+laminated glass argument, my pockets are far from bottomless
Thanks again,
Pete
Cyb1967 said:
Spec of platinum very good value with a decent discount cheaper than a macan diesel equivalent and April delivery.
Indeed. The combination of the Platinum Edition standard spec and the discount from my OPC have saved me over 7 grand compared to the base car at list price. Now I've just got to wait until the end of March for it to arrive :-)Pete
pete said:
Cyb1967 said:
Spec of platinum very good value with a decent discount cheaper than a macan diesel equivalent and April delivery.
Indeed. The combination of the Platinum Edition standard spec and the discount from my OPC have saved me over 7 grand compared to the base car at list price. Now I've just got to wait until the end of March for it to arrive :-)Pete
BTW Pete - that's a lovely Turbo S you have, I recognise the dealer as I often pass that way, always have some interesting stock. That 575 they have looks lovely for the same price as one of these cayennes haha.
Fezzaman said:
That 575 they have looks lovely for the same price as one of these cayennes haha.
Tell me about it! I started looking at Cayennes, convinced I could spec a car with only the bare essentials, and I've ended up spending as much as a decent secondhand Gallardo, or almost a lightly used 991 C2S. Its a good job you can't get hold of 991 GT3s in a hurry, otherwise I suspect I'd have walked out of the OPC having put an order in for one of those and a 10 year old Toyota Previa :-)Mind you, I've ended up paying about the same as a BMW X5 40d, which rode and handled far worse, felt cheap inside, and had to be discounted by 9% to compete on price. The engine was also about as refined as in a black cab, which rather took the shine off the extra on-paper performance. Porsche's option strategy leaves you thinking you've been wildly extravagant, but then you look what you'd have spent on an X5 or Range Rover Sport and it feels like much better value.
Pete
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