Being Tupe'd. What's protected?
Discussion
Long story short, we're an IT dept for a massive company.
The massive company are Tupe'ing us over to a third party. 'They' tell us that nothing will change.
So far, so straight forward.
However! As a department we're required to work an on-call rota. The additional pay PA is circa 5k, so a sizable chunk of money.
We've worked this rota for absolutely years - four at least.
If the new company decide on-call is not longer required, we'll be down a sizeable amount of cash. And I hate being down a sizable amount of cash!
Is there anything within a 'Tupe' that protects our on-call payments? I dont know if on-call is written into our original contracts, only that we signed as additional on-call contract and we've worked that for around 4 years.
The massive company are Tupe'ing us over to a third party. 'They' tell us that nothing will change.
So far, so straight forward.
However! As a department we're required to work an on-call rota. The additional pay PA is circa 5k, so a sizable chunk of money.
We've worked this rota for absolutely years - four at least.
If the new company decide on-call is not longer required, we'll be down a sizeable amount of cash. And I hate being down a sizable amount of cash!
Is there anything within a 'Tupe' that protects our on-call payments? I dont know if on-call is written into our original contracts, only that we signed as additional on-call contract and we've worked that for around 4 years.
- edit - are there any grey areas around Tupe? Has anyone had any negative experience?
Edited by MocMocaMoc on Thursday 23 January 10:49
MocMocaMoc said:
Long story short, we're an IT dept for a massive company.
The massive company are Tupe'ing us over to a third party. 'They' tell us that nothing will change.
So far, so straight forward.
However! As a department we're required to work an on-call rota. The additional pay PA is circa 5k, so a sizable chunk of money.
We've worked this rota for absolutely years - four at least.
If the new company decide on-call is not longer required, we'll be down a sizeable amount of cash. And I hate being down a sizable amount of cash!
Is there anything within a 'Tupe' that protects our on-call payments? I dont know if on-call is written into our original contracts, only that we signed as additional on-call contract and we've worked that for around 4 years.
IANAL however your on call payments will remain. The downside is if you don't do on call you wont get them as you rightly thought. The massive company are Tupe'ing us over to a third party. 'They' tell us that nothing will change.
So far, so straight forward.
However! As a department we're required to work an on-call rota. The additional pay PA is circa 5k, so a sizable chunk of money.
We've worked this rota for absolutely years - four at least.
If the new company decide on-call is not longer required, we'll be down a sizeable amount of cash. And I hate being down a sizable amount of cash!
Is there anything within a 'Tupe' that protects our on-call payments? I dont know if on-call is written into our original contracts, only that we signed as additional on-call contract and we've worked that for around 4 years.
- edit - are there any grey areas around Tupe? Has anyone had any negative experience?
Edited by MocMocaMoc on Thursday 23 January 10:49
Take independent advice, act and negotiate as a group. This will secure you a better deal overall.
Rough and ready guide - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/19/tupe_what_...
Rough and ready guide - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/19/tupe_what_...
Hi
I've worked in a few organisations where it's been implemented. The one most similar to your situation is where our in-house IT team were outsourced to Capita. The transferring staff all retained their pay and perks BUT
(i) they didn't get any pay rises until their pay was the same as Capita's own staff,
(ii)they didn't get any bonuses that Capita got (which kind of cancelled out the benefit of their own bonuses)
(iii) if they applied for an internal promotion they then transferred onto a normal Capita contract. In other words a change of role meant TUPE didn't apply any more.
My impression is that TUPE protection can be "got around" if the employer is determined enough and if the Employees don't have sufficient legal advice of a reasonable quality.
Breadvan72 is yer man for HR related legal advice so hopefully he will pop in at some point
I've worked in a few organisations where it's been implemented. The one most similar to your situation is where our in-house IT team were outsourced to Capita. The transferring staff all retained their pay and perks BUT
(i) they didn't get any pay rises until their pay was the same as Capita's own staff,
(ii)they didn't get any bonuses that Capita got (which kind of cancelled out the benefit of their own bonuses)
(iii) if they applied for an internal promotion they then transferred onto a normal Capita contract. In other words a change of role meant TUPE didn't apply any more.
My impression is that TUPE protection can be "got around" if the employer is determined enough and if the Employees don't have sufficient legal advice of a reasonable quality.
Breadvan72 is yer man for HR related legal advice so hopefully he will pop in at some point
I've been on the other side of it. We acquired a company who gave their staff a free lunch and breakfast in return for being in the office at 8.30, and let them leave an hour early on a friday. They insisted that these benefits were maintained, but complained that other staff had more holiday and better company cars. Within a year everything had been standardised without upsetting anyone, and without breaking the law. It just takes time and compromise on both sides.
Countdown said:
(iii) if they applied for an internal promotion they then transferred onto a normal Capita contract. In other words a change of role meant TUPE didn't apply any more.
This can also mean that your length of service is cancelled and in the event of redundancy you will be paid redundancy based on the time since you took the "normal" contract rather than your actual length of service which can cost a fair bit AndyClockwise said:
This can also mean that your length of service is cancelled and in the event of redundancy you will be paid redundancy based on the time since you took the "normal" contract rather than your actual length of service which can cost a fair bit
This is an issue for us. 'They' reckon we'll be asked to sign a new contract, which will negate our current, reasonably generous, redundancy terms. And there's redundancies planned - we just don't know who for.AndyClockwise said:
IANAL but it is important to know that it only protects what is in your contract.
i.e. If you have a local agreement with your current boss to finish early on a Friday as long as you make up your hours in the week then this is not protected
IAAL and you are mistaken. The OP has agreed additional terms re on call work. All contractual rights are protected (with the partial exception of pension rights) , and those rights may be contained in a written contract, an oral contract, or one inferred from conduct or from the custom and practice of a particular employment. i.e. If you have a local agreement with your current boss to finish early on a Friday as long as you make up your hours in the week then this is not protected
OP, the employer has obligations to inform and consult the employees affected by a transfer of undertaking. If in doubt, take advice specific to your situation from an expert and insured adviser.
For general guidance, see
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 25th January 08:09
speedyman said:
Your pension is not protected with a tupe transfer.
That statement needs to be qualified, as there is some protection for some aspects of some pensions.http://www.freshfields.com/uploadedFiles/SiteWide/...
MocMocaMoc said:
AndyClockwise said:
This can also mean that your length of service is cancelled and in the event of redundancy you will be paid redundancy based on the time since you took the "normal" contract rather than your actual length of service which can cost a fair bit
This is an issue for us. 'They' reckon we'll be asked to sign a new contract, which will negate our current, reasonably generous, redundancy terms. And there's redundancies planned - we just don't know who for.When the ins and outs are presented to you all, get some advice from there.
Andy Clockwise is indeed wrong on that point. TUPE is a fairly complex subject, and although people who know little or nothing about it no doubt mean well when they offer opinions about it, those opinions tend to be of little value.
Law + internet = everyone is an expert. The same applies to medicine and a few other subjects. I would never opine on how to fix a computer, or how to build a house, control an oil rig, teach GCSE maths, run a sales team, etc, etc, but on the internet everyone is a lawyer and/or a doctor, it seems.
Law + internet = everyone is an expert. The same applies to medicine and a few other subjects. I would never opine on how to fix a computer, or how to build a house, control an oil rig, teach GCSE maths, run a sales team, etc, etc, but on the internet everyone is a lawyer and/or a doctor, it seems.
Absolutely right and I will wholeheartedly admit if I am well off the mark.
I am in a lucky position that my sister is very well versed in tupe takeovers so until I know the ins and outs of my own situation I wont approach her until then.
I try and read stuff to put my own mind at rest but it only goes to open up new questions, questions that the answers will come when the transfer proposal is formal.
Apologies to if I say something that is well off! And good luck to anyone who is going through this.
I am in a lucky position that my sister is very well versed in tupe takeovers so until I know the ins and outs of my own situation I wont approach her until then.
I try and read stuff to put my own mind at rest but it only goes to open up new questions, questions that the answers will come when the transfer proposal is formal.
Apologies to if I say something that is well off! And good luck to anyone who is going through this.
Please don't hesitate to ask me if you get stuck on any particular point.
I get a bit fed up of the TUPE REgulations sometimes as I have done too many cases about them. I had an interesting and slightly novel one coming up, but it has just settled. How unsporting of clients to take my advice to settle their differences and rob me of my fun (and loot).
I get a bit fed up of the TUPE REgulations sometimes as I have done too many cases about them. I had an interesting and slightly novel one coming up, but it has just settled. How unsporting of clients to take my advice to settle their differences and rob me of my fun (and loot).
I'm pleased I asked : )
The whole thing seems a minefield, but I'm sure it'll all be fine.
Everyone in the office are getting their knickers in a twist, but so long as a: my wages remain, and b: my place of work (often from home) doesn't change - I'm fine.
And if it all goes tits up, well it's all good research and experience for the future! Ha.
The whole thing seems a minefield, but I'm sure it'll all be fine.
Everyone in the office are getting their knickers in a twist, but so long as a: my wages remain, and b: my place of work (often from home) doesn't change - I'm fine.
And if it all goes tits up, well it's all good research and experience for the future! Ha.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff