integra type r appreciating? future classic
Discussion
We all know how iconic the integra type r dc2 is.
At the time of release it had the highest output per litre for a n/a production car.The engine was special,so special honda lost money on the early models,now thats cool,not many companies can claim that nowadays,in todays world of mass produced effiecient hybrid and turbo playstation cars.
And at a time when real drivers cars like the 996/997 gt3 and honda type r range,with na engines and manual shift are being phased out to make way for the next generation of turbocharged engines and softer chassis with paddle shift,surely these origional drivers cars are going to be far more saught after.Just look at what honda have announced,they are developing the worlds first vtech turbo for their type r rang
It wasnt just the engine,that chassis is like something sent back in time from space, so far ahead of its time.
From things like corner weight balancing,lighter glass,monoque welded body,helical lsd..... this was a real race car for the road.
It beat most cars in its class and in a class just above,nothing with front wheel drive and an na engine could touch it,it even beat the impreza in an endurance battle when the imprezas brakes burnt out.
At the time honda were on a roll with the nsx being developed and their engineers working with senna and formula 1,the technology that went into this car was second to none.
My question is this,are we seeing the beginning of a long climb in value for this legend? When you think it will soon be approaching 20 years since first one rolled out in 1995,and i think its safe to say we have seen the market bottom out.I have recently noticed a serious lack in decent dc2s on the market,auto trader,irish and japs sights all have very few.I think these are tell tail signs that any decent models are being held closely,for the very reason i am writing article.
We know this wont be a rapid climb like an nsx r or a 911 gt3 rs 4.0,but i certainly believe its on the up,after all this car is closely linked to the nsx r,giving it a direct connection to the arton senna legacy.
Whats everyones opinion on this
And which model will be worth investing in? An early 96 with the hand ported and polished engine? or a 98 spec with improved gearing,torque and suspension?
And at what rate do we expect this future classic to appreciate??
Thanks for reading.
At the time of release it had the highest output per litre for a n/a production car.The engine was special,so special honda lost money on the early models,now thats cool,not many companies can claim that nowadays,in todays world of mass produced effiecient hybrid and turbo playstation cars.
And at a time when real drivers cars like the 996/997 gt3 and honda type r range,with na engines and manual shift are being phased out to make way for the next generation of turbocharged engines and softer chassis with paddle shift,surely these origional drivers cars are going to be far more saught after.Just look at what honda have announced,they are developing the worlds first vtech turbo for their type r rang
It wasnt just the engine,that chassis is like something sent back in time from space, so far ahead of its time.
From things like corner weight balancing,lighter glass,monoque welded body,helical lsd..... this was a real race car for the road.
It beat most cars in its class and in a class just above,nothing with front wheel drive and an na engine could touch it,it even beat the impreza in an endurance battle when the imprezas brakes burnt out.
At the time honda were on a roll with the nsx being developed and their engineers working with senna and formula 1,the technology that went into this car was second to none.
My question is this,are we seeing the beginning of a long climb in value for this legend? When you think it will soon be approaching 20 years since first one rolled out in 1995,and i think its safe to say we have seen the market bottom out.I have recently noticed a serious lack in decent dc2s on the market,auto trader,irish and japs sights all have very few.I think these are tell tail signs that any decent models are being held closely,for the very reason i am writing article.
We know this wont be a rapid climb like an nsx r or a 911 gt3 rs 4.0,but i certainly believe its on the up,after all this car is closely linked to the nsx r,giving it a direct connection to the arton senna legacy.
Whats everyones opinion on this
And which model will be worth investing in? An early 96 with the hand ported and polished engine? or a 98 spec with improved gearing,torque and suspension?
And at what rate do we expect this future classic to appreciate??
Thanks for reading.
Edited by dandc2 on Saturday 28th December 16:54
Edited by dandc2 on Sunday 29th December 12:42
Yes.
Low mileage examples bound to appreciate, especially the UKDM seeing as '96 and '98 specs available in abundance if you want to import from Japland.
That said '98 and RX are becoming pretty hard to come by over here.
If I sold my '98 spec today it would be for what I bought it for around 4 years ago and that's with an additional 40k miles on the clock so they are definitely holding their value if not slowly appreciating.
Model differences and mileage are becoming less important than rust IMO.
Low mileage examples bound to appreciate, especially the UKDM seeing as '96 and '98 specs available in abundance if you want to import from Japland.
That said '98 and RX are becoming pretty hard to come by over here.
If I sold my '98 spec today it would be for what I bought it for around 4 years ago and that's with an additional 40k miles on the clock so they are definitely holding their value if not slowly appreciating.
Model differences and mileage are becoming less important than rust IMO.
Not yet, not while I own one.
It seems to me that if you want an iconic affordable 90's Japanese performance car you are absolutely spoiled for choice right now.
I do think the DC2 is a future classic though, it's just going to take some time. Perhaps values have already bottomed out, remember when E30 M3's were cheap.
It seems to me that if you want an iconic affordable 90's Japanese performance car you are absolutely spoiled for choice right now.
I do think the DC2 is a future classic though, it's just going to take some time. Perhaps values have already bottomed out, remember when E30 M3's were cheap.
The scary thing is the prices have dropped into the grasp of young drivers so the amount of decent examples have reduced.
I fully agree that values will appreciate for the unmolested examples with low mileage, so they should.
But there will be steep drop the other side of this, I've seen chavved DC2's going for well under £2000.
A great shame.
I fully agree that values will appreciate for the unmolested examples with low mileage, so they should.
But there will be steep drop the other side of this, I've seen chavved DC2's going for well under £2000.
A great shame.
Good condition, low mileage, rust free ones will appreciate slowly. I don't think they'll ever fetch big money but they could represent depciation-free motoring if you buy a good one, keep it absolutely free of rust, as original as possible and only drive it occasionally on sunny days. I'd imagine that will take a few years though, there are too many cheap, half-decent ones there that people will buy, fix the rust and mod a bit. Once a lot more of the lower end of the market ones eventually end up scrapped due to rust or age, broken for parts or crashed, the smaller pool of cars will make supply more of an issue, and the good ones will become a bit more valuable.
Mastodon2 said:
Good condition, low mileage, rust free ones will appreciate slowly. I don't think they'll ever fetch big money but they could represent depciation-free motoring if you buy a good one, keep it absolutely free of rust, as original as possible and only drive it occasionally on sunny days. I'd imagine that will take a few years though, there are too many cheap, half-decent ones there that people will buy, fix the rust and mod a bit. Once a lot more of the lower end of the market ones eventually end up scrapped due to rust or age, broken for parts or crashed, the smaller pool of cars will make supply more of an issue, and the good ones will become a bit more valuable.
This.It will never be an 'investment-grade' classic (maintenance costs are almost certain to exceed any minor capital appreciation), but I don't think decent examples will depreciate any further.
I own a ratty 96 spec which is definately at the lower end of the scale and worth FAR less than i have spent on it.
A chap near by me also has one stored under a tarp in a shed. 2001 Uk spec, milano red, sub 10k mileage and hasnt turned a wheel in years. Would sell it for about £10.000 when i asked a family member a few years back.
Mine wont live long enough to ever become a real classic but that red one must surely be the one to have as a long term investment.
A chap near by me also has one stored under a tarp in a shed. 2001 Uk spec, milano red, sub 10k mileage and hasnt turned a wheel in years. Would sell it for about £10.000 when i asked a family member a few years back.
Mine wont live long enough to ever become a real classic but that red one must surely be the one to have as a long term investment.
jabbalon said:
Mine wont live long enough to ever become a real classic but that red one must surely be the one to have as a long term investment.
But that to me is a waste. If he wanted a car to invest in and never use, he'd have been far better spending the say £10k (depending on when bought) he spent on that car on a homologation special or performance car with a better badge (variously E30 M3, Mk1/2 Escort, Lotus Sunbeam, 205 GTi, etc. etc.), all of which would appreciate more than the ITR.ITRs are there for using. Cherishing, sure...but they're not a car for storing - they'll never be megabucks.
I am currently in the market for one and already i have noticed a steel increase in asking price,average is now 5k in ireland.Big rise considering nust 2 years ago when i sold mine they were all goin for around 3k rarely there was one asking more than 4k.
Things im hearing from people is honest examples are dissapearing
Things im hearing from people is honest examples are dissapearing
It seems odd to me that people bank on cars like this appreciating. They are not worth big money and I don't see them rising like the E30 M3 for instance.
When you account for tax, insurance and servicing costs it seems somewhat short sighted to bank on them being a goldmine. Unless you keep it for the rest of your days of course.
Use them, treat them well and enjoy I think.
When you account for tax, insurance and servicing costs it seems somewhat short sighted to bank on them being a goldmine. Unless you keep it for the rest of your days of course.
Use them, treat them well and enjoy I think.
They will attain minor classic status soon enough. They wont reach heights like the E30 or 3dr Cossie, but not far off for unmolested, low mileage, rust free ones.
They are unique, will be available in very limited quantities (the good ones) and have a serious appeal to them. They were king of their time.
They are unique, will be available in very limited quantities (the good ones) and have a serious appeal to them. They were king of their time.
I bought mine 15 months ago and it's a very low mileage UK car. Whilst it might have appreciated, the cost to tax, MOT, insure and service it, are greater than the appreciation.
They are pretty hard to find now. The DC2 forum will be one of the best places to find a well looked after car.
They are pretty hard to find now. The DC2 forum will be one of the best places to find a well looked after car.
jfcole said:
They will attain minor classic status soon enough. They wont reach heights like the E30 or 3dr Cossie, but not far off for unmolested, low mileage, rust free ones.
They are unique, will be available in very limited quantities (the good ones) and have a serious appeal to them. They were king of their time.
They will never even close to the E30 M3s and Cosworths, they just don't have the racing heritage. Wishful thinking if anyone believes the value are going to skyrocket.They are unique, will be available in very limited quantities (the good ones) and have a serious appeal to them. They were king of their time.
Mastodon2 said:
jfcole said:
They will attain minor classic status soon enough. They wont reach heights like the E30 or 3dr Cossie, but not far off for unmolested, low mileage, rust free ones.
They are unique, will be available in very limited quantities (the good ones) and have a serious appeal to them. They were king of their time.
They will never even close to the E30 M3s and Cosworths, they just don't have the racing heritage. Wishful thinking if anyone believes the value are going to skyrocket.They are unique, will be available in very limited quantities (the good ones) and have a serious appeal to them. They were king of their time.
Saying all this, as a driver's car, is it better than the E30 M3 and 205? I could make a strong argument for it being harder and more special than both.
Mine is my practical car, used at weekends only but used and enjoyed. It is a cared for example which gets everything it needs. Lovely car to drive and still special after 5 years of ownership. Is there anything this side of a 996 GT3 which offers the same focus?
I do need to change it pretty soon but I honestly don't know what to get and much as I have thought of many different cars, I know nothing for remotely the same price bracket will give me the same blend of fun and reliability.
Here is mine - it always seems to be worth a lot more than its actual monetary value:
Edited by SidewaysSi on Saturday 11th January 12:16
SidewaysSi said:
Saying all this, as a driver's car, is it better than the E30 M3 and 205? I could make a strong argument for it being harder and more special than both.
Henry Catchpole, in an issue of evo last year, effectively refused to pick a 'better car' between the E30 and DC2. I suspect they drive rather differently, but both involve and reward out of proportion to the real-world performance. In terms of VFM there's clearly no contest, but if I could have both I probably would...205...is a genuine hoot, but it's not as 'rounded' as the 'teg, or even (IMHO) as bigger brother the 306GTi-6...I'm probably in a minority saying that though.
SidewaysSi said:
Here is mine - it always seems to be worth a lot more than its actual monetary value:
Know exactly what you mean there.
Mastodon2 said:
They will never even close to the E30 M3s and Cosworths, they just don't have the racing heritage. Wishful thinking if anyone believes the value are going to skyrocket.
racing heritage is seen with the link to the nsx r which has racing heritage.and who senna gave a lot of input of suspension and body rigidity in the design.Honda have a vast racing heritage,the car came in the signature championship white from the hondas of the past in races,honda racing team go.back to the 50s.The dc2 itself was raced in japanease endurance races with often cars from a higher league.
SidewaysSi said:
Indeed , the lack of racing heritage is an issue if you are looking for significant appreciation. I can see them going the way of 205 GTIs or E30 325s for instance which have steadily increased but probably not enough to offset running costs in the majority of cases.
Saying all this, as a driver's car, is it better than the E30 M3 and 205? I could make a strong argument for it being harder and more special than both.
Mine is my practical car, used at weekends only but used and enjoyed. It is a cared for example which gets everything it needs. Lovely car to drive and still special after 5 years of ownership. Is there anything this side of a 996 GT3 which offers the same focus?
I do need to change it pretty soon but I honestly don't know what to get and much as I have thought of many different cars, I know nothing for remotely the same price bracket will give me the same blend of fun and reliability.
Here is mine - it always seems to be worth a lot more than its actual monetary value:
nice model,love the origional wheels.Bow many miles on her?Saying all this, as a driver's car, is it better than the E30 M3 and 205? I could make a strong argument for it being harder and more special than both.
Mine is my practical car, used at weekends only but used and enjoyed. It is a cared for example which gets everything it needs. Lovely car to drive and still special after 5 years of ownership. Is there anything this side of a 996 GT3 which offers the same focus?
I do need to change it pretty soon but I honestly don't know what to get and much as I have thought of many different cars, I know nothing for remotely the same price bracket will give me the same blend of fun and reliability.
Here is mine - it always seems to be worth a lot more than its actual monetary value:
Edited by SidewaysSi on Saturday 11th January 12:16
SidewaysSi said:
Here is mine - it always seems to be worth a lot more than its actual monetary value.
+111111 Mine too!! By the way I love your S160, rare and the best colour!R26.R is the only FWD performance car that I’d consider to replace the DC2, though not at £17k!
Mine at Goodwood queuing:
dandc2 said:
Mastodon2 said:
They will never even close to the E30 M3s and Cosworths, they just don't have the racing heritage. Wishful thinking if anyone believes the value are going to skyrocket.
racing heritage is seen with the link to the nsx r which has racing heritage.and who senna gave a lot of input of suspension and body rigidity in the design.Honda have a vast racing heritage,the car came in the signature championship white from the hondas of the past in races,honda racing team go.back to the 50s.The dc2 itself was raced in japanease endurance races with often cars from a higher league.
DC2 was raced in Japan with some success, and had privateer entries over here and in the USA...but that was it...and it never won any silverware outside of Japan. Contrast to the legendary competition wins of the E30 and Cosworth...and that IS why it'll never be worth as much.
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