Bit stuck on career for post PhD - driver less car research?
Discussion
Hello chaps.
Bit stuck if I am honest, with choosing a direction to head in with my career.
wrote a big spiel but I guess most people will be TL;DR
so in short, MEng engineering degree from highly respected uni, 1st class result and in a few months I will be a Dr in Engineering.
I am weary of working in large engineering firms because of the "little cog, big machine" feeling and other frustrating traits like long drawn out meetings about nothing, difficulties communicating across different groups and more often then you'd think; covering ground people already covered 20 years ago, but never bothered to record it.
I don't want to stay in academia either. Not for me. Not really keen on ending up at one of the many engineering consultancies we have like Frazer Nash and Cambridge Engineering either. Given my small non-academic experience I wouldn't feel qualified to work as a consultant, despite the PhD. Perhaps I am looking at it wrong though, but I have just perused Cambridge Consultants website and it is stuffed full of that annoying business b
ks speak which is rather off putting.
I would like to do something that is very much research. Taking a new technology, researching the literature, working it out, testing it, recording results, analysing etc. I enjoy that, but I would be looking at a private-sector setting for that, not an academic one.
I really like the idea of working on self-driving car technology. I know Google are fairly advanced, as are BMW, Mercedes and Volvo, but is there anything going on in the UK that anyone here is aware of? I would at least like to get a few years under my belt here in the UK before maybe looking at working abroad. I know the UK government has announced they would like the UK to the be a technology leader for this kind of thing (though I suspect they've rather missed the boat with that one, give how far everyone else is ahead).
I do have some contacts to follow up as my supervisor is a well connected man, but these are not definite, I don't know if they'll be aware of anything. Certainly google searches are revealing nothing specifically for the UK, though it certainly seems like something the MoD, MAHLE, Pro-drive, Ricardo et al would be interested in.
Bit stuck if I am honest, with choosing a direction to head in with my career.
wrote a big spiel but I guess most people will be TL;DR
so in short, MEng engineering degree from highly respected uni, 1st class result and in a few months I will be a Dr in Engineering.
I am weary of working in large engineering firms because of the "little cog, big machine" feeling and other frustrating traits like long drawn out meetings about nothing, difficulties communicating across different groups and more often then you'd think; covering ground people already covered 20 years ago, but never bothered to record it.
I don't want to stay in academia either. Not for me. Not really keen on ending up at one of the many engineering consultancies we have like Frazer Nash and Cambridge Engineering either. Given my small non-academic experience I wouldn't feel qualified to work as a consultant, despite the PhD. Perhaps I am looking at it wrong though, but I have just perused Cambridge Consultants website and it is stuffed full of that annoying business b
ks speak which is rather off putting.I would like to do something that is very much research. Taking a new technology, researching the literature, working it out, testing it, recording results, analysing etc. I enjoy that, but I would be looking at a private-sector setting for that, not an academic one.
I really like the idea of working on self-driving car technology. I know Google are fairly advanced, as are BMW, Mercedes and Volvo, but is there anything going on in the UK that anyone here is aware of? I would at least like to get a few years under my belt here in the UK before maybe looking at working abroad. I know the UK government has announced they would like the UK to the be a technology leader for this kind of thing (though I suspect they've rather missed the boat with that one, give how far everyone else is ahead).
I do have some contacts to follow up as my supervisor is a well connected man, but these are not definite, I don't know if they'll be aware of anything. Certainly google searches are revealing nothing specifically for the UK, though it certainly seems like something the MoD, MAHLE, Pro-drive, Ricardo et al would be interested in.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Friday 20th December 23:10
Thanks maffski, will check it out.
On first glance it almost looks perfect but I am not sure about it basically looking like a post doc/RA position. Not sure that is what I want.
Plus it's oxford, they aren't going to be short of brain boxes to fill roles. They won't give a PhD from Loughborough a second look surely!
On first glance it almost looks perfect but I am not sure about it basically looking like a post doc/RA position. Not sure that is what I want.
Plus it's oxford, they aren't going to be short of brain boxes to fill roles. They won't give a PhD from Loughborough a second look surely!
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Sunday 22 December 11:59
BAES have been working on it for years with their Advanced Tech Centres. They "technology" in the sense you are thinking of is pretty simple. The complicated funky stuff is all in the software. How is your Bayesian networks knowledge and ability? Markov models.etc? The UKs top chap is a mucka of mine, also an Alfa and Linn stereo nut.
Atkins are also involved in this stuff.
Atkins are also involved in this stuff.
161BMW said:
What type of engineering was your MEng first degrees in and where did you study ?
All Loughborough, I did Mech Eng. PhD was work for caterpillar, but I definitely don't want to go into their industry of big diesels and heavy machines. Plus they're one of these companies where everyone is always having a meeting. I often wonder how work actually gets done!DJRC said:
BAES have been working on it for years with their Advanced Tech Centres. They "technology" in the sense you are thinking of is pretty simple. The complicated funky stuff is all in the software. How is your Bayesian networks knowledge and ability? Markov models.etc? The UKs top chap is a mucka of mine, also an Alfa and Linn stereo nut.
Atkins are also involved in this stuff.
Ahh, my knowledge of those things is nonexistent. It is stuff we just do not cover, I guess it's more towards systems engineering and perhaps pure mathematics. I would be more interested in optical and laser measurement type things as my PhD involved a fair bit of imaging based analysis, for which I wrote the algorithms in matlab. But I guess the only issues they have is making the kit small enough to hide on the car. The heavy lifting will be all software. Certainly not averse to learning these things, but I'd be coming from a very long way back!!!!Atkins are also involved in this stuff.
I guess I'll need a re-think. Thanks for chipping in on this, I had an inkling that the main issue would be the computation but thought perhaps the sensing side might need some development ( the LiDAR dome on the google car is rather a sore thumb!). But I guess they just need miniaturisation to take its course.
The sensing is piss easy, its rather limited technology anyway. Again the funky side of that is in the signal processing.
Even in the hardware world, for the work reqired you need to be a firmware chap and FPGA boy really.
If you actually want to use your skills you think you have then you need to be in the aerospace and space world frankly. Or the pharma world, they do a lot of laser, sensing, imaging work and their R&R budgets are impressive.
But you *really* need to lose the attitude. You are a £30-40k a yr employee who thinks he is a £60k employee.
Even in the hardware world, for the work reqired you need to be a firmware chap and FPGA boy really.
If you actually want to use your skills you think you have then you need to be in the aerospace and space world frankly. Or the pharma world, they do a lot of laser, sensing, imaging work and their R&R budgets are impressive.
But you *really* need to lose the attitude. You are a £30-40k a yr employee who thinks he is a £60k employee.
What was your phd in?
If you have an interest in regenerative medicine / cell based therapies and cryogenics (thermal modelling, Medical device design - we do use Imaging and algorithms for certain elements of stuff) and want to join a small but growing company in cbridge - give me a PM (3 of us are ex consultants FWIW)
Stu
If you have an interest in regenerative medicine / cell based therapies and cryogenics (thermal modelling, Medical device design - we do use Imaging and algorithms for certain elements of stuff) and want to join a small but growing company in cbridge - give me a PM (3 of us are ex consultants FWIW)
Stu
DJRC said:
The sensing is piss easy, its rather limited technology anyway. Again the funky side of that is in the signal processing.
Even in the hardware world, for the work reqired you need to be a firmware chap and FPGA boy really.
If you actually want to use your skills you think you have then you need to be in the aerospace and space world frankly. Or the pharma world, they do a lot of laser, sensing, imaging work and their R&R budgets are impressive.
But you *really* need to lose the attitude. You are a £30-40k a yr employee who thinks he is a £60k employee.
Hang on here, what attitude? Please point it out to me. I have simply asked if anyone knows about a certain technology and who is working on it.Even in the hardware world, for the work reqired you need to be a firmware chap and FPGA boy really.
If you actually want to use your skills you think you have then you need to be in the aerospace and space world frankly. Or the pharma world, they do a lot of laser, sensing, imaging work and their R&R budgets are impressive.
But you *really* need to lose the attitude. You are a £30-40k a yr employee who thinks he is a £60k employee.
I've worked in a large company before and I don't like it. I'll work where I enjoy the work. Not too fussed about pay. The pay is the pay, I'd rather be enjoying my work. As I said, I don't feel particularly confident about working in consultancies, I feel I do t have enough experience.
Please point this out to me because this will be useful for interviews if that's how I come across. I mean I am fully expecting to start on a typical grad salary and work up. I haven't got any experience that dictates I should be paid more, the PhDis merely a show of how well I can work on my own. A string to my bow, but not something that means I need more money for having one. PhDs are purely selfish endeavours really.
Edited by Otispunkmeyer on Tuesday 24th December 12:42
stuthemong said:
What was your phd in?
If you have an interest in regenerative medicine / cell based therapies and cryogenics (thermal modelling, Medical device design - we do use Imaging and algorithms for certain elements of stuff) and want to join a small but growing company in cbridge - give me a PM (3 of us are ex consultants FWIW)
Stu
Focused on a new DPF regeneration method. Can't really give many details as cat keep it under lock and key. But it was quite broad, lots of mechanical work, lots of high voltage engineering and home baked control systems and my favourite - using optical methods to non-destructively gauge performance and behaviour.If you have an interest in regenerative medicine / cell based therapies and cryogenics (thermal modelling, Medical device design - we do use Imaging and algorithms for certain elements of stuff) and want to join a small but growing company in cbridge - give me a PM (3 of us are ex consultants FWIW)
Stu
That's the part I really enjoyed hence looking for somewhere where I can keep working on things like that. Regardless of the application really. I just picked auto-driving cars because it marries my love for automotive tech as well.
When I get my cv sorted I may PM it your way. Thanks for the kind offer.
This isn't really going to sound very nice, but I've remembered both yours and DJRC's posts over time and sadly I agree more with the latter.
You need to get a job. And work. As an engineer, consultant, whatever.
Please don't take offence as it may be your writing style but you do come across as arrogant, although whether this is through naivety I can't tell. I have no doubt I was the same as graduate.
You need to deal with the f**kups and the useless managers and the TUPE'd dross, the final salary countdown gang and the contractors who'll delay your projects for their smoke break. Just get out of the academic bubble.
I graduated around the same time as you (albeit one year earlier) and having looked at your Linkedin I've worked for a similarish if not the same company for a brief period of time. You really can't base engineering on that company.
I'd love to say that you'll find somewhere that doesn't have nonsense meetings, that doesn't feel small cog big machine, that is worth the effort, that your qualifications will be recognised, that you'll find fun to work for and you won't mind the pay.
But I'm six years in, had similar hopes and now I'm on my third company on and contracting. Life does and will get in the way.
Please get some years under your belt, think carefully where you're going and then I really hope I read that you've landed on your feet in future and not turned too bitter and cynical like the rest of us.
You need to get a job. And work. As an engineer, consultant, whatever.
Please don't take offence as it may be your writing style but you do come across as arrogant, although whether this is through naivety I can't tell. I have no doubt I was the same as graduate.
You need to deal with the f**kups and the useless managers and the TUPE'd dross, the final salary countdown gang and the contractors who'll delay your projects for their smoke break. Just get out of the academic bubble.
I graduated around the same time as you (albeit one year earlier) and having looked at your Linkedin I've worked for a similarish if not the same company for a brief period of time. You really can't base engineering on that company.
I'd love to say that you'll find somewhere that doesn't have nonsense meetings, that doesn't feel small cog big machine, that is worth the effort, that your qualifications will be recognised, that you'll find fun to work for and you won't mind the pay.
But I'm six years in, had similar hopes and now I'm on my third company on and contracting. Life does and will get in the way.
Please get some years under your belt, think carefully where you're going and then I really hope I read that you've landed on your feet in future and not turned too bitter and cynical like the rest of us.
I don't mean to come across like that, honestly. I think a lot of the time people read posts in a style they think is right. I know I've done it in the past and as a result interperated things wrong, got the wrong end of the stick and ended in big arguments. I am in no way arrogant. People who know me personally will testify, I wouldn't normally even say boo to a goose, because I am no good at dealing with meeting new people.
I will freely admit, my earlier posts and dealings with DJRC may paint my attitude in a different light. I will say for sure that reading some of his posts on my topics and similar converstions with other people have made me think more about what to expect and how I should think about careers in engineering. He has definitely changed my attitude and outlook over past year or 2.
However, I don't see what is wrong with knowing what things I don't like and trying to find away of avoiding them. What is wrong with that? I don't want to work to be miserable, I'd rather work to be happy thanks. I know i want to work in research, don't care about anything else, I just want the work to be interesting. I don't see what is wrong with wanting that out of a job. I know some people here think you aren't doing it right if your first jobs aren't soul crushingly depressing. I say it is they who are doing it wrong and as a result appear bitter towards those who didn't do or don't want to do the same.
I hope I won't become bitter! It's really not much use to anyone to be a bitter old so and so.
I will freely admit, my earlier posts and dealings with DJRC may paint my attitude in a different light. I will say for sure that reading some of his posts on my topics and similar converstions with other people have made me think more about what to expect and how I should think about careers in engineering. He has definitely changed my attitude and outlook over past year or 2.
However, I don't see what is wrong with knowing what things I don't like and trying to find away of avoiding them. What is wrong with that? I don't want to work to be miserable, I'd rather work to be happy thanks. I know i want to work in research, don't care about anything else, I just want the work to be interesting. I don't see what is wrong with wanting that out of a job. I know some people here think you aren't doing it right if your first jobs aren't soul crushingly depressing. I say it is they who are doing it wrong and as a result appear bitter towards those who didn't do or don't want to do the same.
I hope I won't become bitter! It's really not much use to anyone to be a bitter old so and so.
When you have two job offers on the table, you can make your decision.
The field you are looking at is quite specific, i would search a little wider.
I am lucky that I enjoy my job, but it is not the job I enjoy, it is the people I work with. I see a job as a means to enjoy myself outside of work. therefore, i will compromise on an ideal role, to get a decent wage, live where I want to, have a good home/work balance. I have no doubt I could earn more, have more resposibility, greater job satisfaction somewhere else but I don't want it.
I am unsure exactly what I am trying to convey? Andmaybe I am reading between the lines too much, but defining a job role you want in a company that maybe doesn't exist will only lead to disappointment.
Mike
The field you are looking at is quite specific, i would search a little wider.
I am lucky that I enjoy my job, but it is not the job I enjoy, it is the people I work with. I see a job as a means to enjoy myself outside of work. therefore, i will compromise on an ideal role, to get a decent wage, live where I want to, have a good home/work balance. I have no doubt I could earn more, have more resposibility, greater job satisfaction somewhere else but I don't want it.
I am unsure exactly what I am trying to convey? Andmaybe I am reading between the lines too much, but defining a job role you want in a company that maybe doesn't exist will only lead to disappointment.
Mike
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