Discussion
Got a 328GTB turning up in Oz next month and although I've driven a few GTS' I'm unsure if there is anymore room in a GTB v the GTS (maybe even less)
The problem I've had is long legs getting near the steering wheel in the GTS, so is the problem exactly the same in the GTB for long legged gits?
We don't have any GTBs in Oz yet so I have no-one to ask here but I am suspecting it must be the same as a 308GTB and I can drive them OK with some adjustment
The problem I've had is long legs getting near the steering wheel in the GTS, so is the problem exactly the same in the GTB for long legged gits?
We don't have any GTBs in Oz yet so I have no-one to ask here but I am suspecting it must be the same as a 308GTB and I can drive them OK with some adjustment
I think the 308 and 328 had the same cabin dimensions, but I can't be absolutely certain. Ferrari held an open day at Gleneagles when the 328 had just gone into production - they brought two of everything - and because I lived nearby I was ordered to work out the various demo routes, and present myself for chauffeuring early in the morning.
It was a long, long day. Speed limits abolished and the cars driven flat out by four ex-racers. Whether that was good for the invited glitterati isn't on record, but it was great fun!
The point of the story is that I remember turning up in my 308 and stepping straight into a 328 without noticing any difference in the legroom. Then again I'm not tall enough to need the seat fully back - hence my uncertainty.
Good luck with the new car - the best of the 308 family IMHO!
It was a long, long day. Speed limits abolished and the cars driven flat out by four ex-racers. Whether that was good for the invited glitterati isn't on record, but it was great fun!
The point of the story is that I remember turning up in my 308 and stepping straight into a 328 without noticing any difference in the legroom. Then again I'm not tall enough to need the seat fully back - hence my uncertainty.
Good luck with the new car - the best of the 308 family IMHO!
thanks Ian, much appreciated.
I'm 5'11" but have long legs and so long as you noticed nothing between the two I should be right.
I think the 328 is one of the better 3x8s as well due to the simplicity (by Ferrari standards) of the car and they had sorted all the earlier problems with stress fracturing and weak rear end on grippy tyres (or so I'm told).
One thing I have always been told by members of the club is that the gt4 is a better handling car than the gtb/gts but I have found from my own personal experience that I prefer the handling of the latter as they seem instantly more comfortable at speed and particularly on the track than the gt4 but then mine may have been a poor example even with all new suspension.
As an aside, which Ferrari and Lambo do you consider the best of all time (not the fastest of greatest handling but the most fun) as a mate is considering a Muira SV and he is a modern supercar buff but feels a need to scratch the classic itch. He's had a 275 in the past and is thinking this way again (good choice in my book as well as the SV) but really has a Lambo itch.
Best
John
I'm 5'11" but have long legs and so long as you noticed nothing between the two I should be right.
I think the 328 is one of the better 3x8s as well due to the simplicity (by Ferrari standards) of the car and they had sorted all the earlier problems with stress fracturing and weak rear end on grippy tyres (or so I'm told).
One thing I have always been told by members of the club is that the gt4 is a better handling car than the gtb/gts but I have found from my own personal experience that I prefer the handling of the latter as they seem instantly more comfortable at speed and particularly on the track than the gt4 but then mine may have been a poor example even with all new suspension.
As an aside, which Ferrari and Lambo do you consider the best of all time (not the fastest of greatest handling but the most fun) as a mate is considering a Muira SV and he is a modern supercar buff but feels a need to scratch the classic itch. He's had a 275 in the past and is thinking this way again (good choice in my book as well as the SV) but really has a Lambo itch.
Best
John
You are eventually getting close to that 328, congrats !
Certainly not 1/100th as experienced as McNab but I'd suggest to run away from the car unless at least the chassis has been honestly restored and overhauled, including the fuel tank mounts.
308gt4 said:
a mate is considering a Miura SV
Certainly not 1/100th as experienced as McNab but I'd suggest to run away from the car unless at least the chassis has been honestly restored and overhauled, including the fuel tank mounts.
Gidday Thom, nice to hear from you again 
Yes the 328 is so close I can smell it but it has to pass a lot of red tape before I get my hands on it
Mate who wants the SV knows a good car from the bad and does heaps of research before he will part with the money unlike me who lets his heart rule.
I'll pass your tip onto him, thanks
Yes the 328 is so close I can smell it but it has to pass a lot of red tape before I get my hands on it
Mate who wants the SV knows a good car from the bad and does heaps of research before he will part with the money unlike me who lets his heart rule.
I'll pass your tip onto him, thanks
Love the 328 !!!!
I too intend to own one sometime soon.
Love the Miura SV, though everyone says they're a nightmare to own - I don't care about that, but my pockets aren't deep enough yet...
I think a Countach is a little more realistic (these things are relative) - I want a black one ...
The ultimate Ferrari changes everyday, but since I have kids and I need one to use daily, yet I like having lots of performance, a 456 is very much on my radar .... failing that, a 250LM would be nice....
I too intend to own one sometime soon.
Love the Miura SV, though everyone says they're a nightmare to own - I don't care about that, but my pockets aren't deep enough yet...
I think a Countach is a little more realistic (these things are relative) - I want a black one ...
The ultimate Ferrari changes everyday, but since I have kids and I need one to use daily, yet I like having lots of performance, a 456 is very much on my radar .... failing that, a 250LM would be nice....
Hi Guy, I'm sure you would be happy with any of those cars as would I.
I was slightly disappointed with the Countach's steering in the example I tried as it was fairly heavy but I put this down to the incredibly wide, super sticky tyres and the unfortunate slow speeds I tested it under...magnificent car but is a bugger to drive in traffic as you can't see to change lanes!!
Hard to believe how old they are and yet how much attention they get.
456s have dropped sharply since the 612 has arrived but we have too many GTAs here and who really wants an auto ? I got offered a nice 365GT4/2+2 the other day but the A/C needs to be brilliant for our conditions (35+ during summer!!)
One thing about mid-engined cars I've found is that it takes about 6 months for the ungifted to learn to drive these cars fast with real confidence as they bite hard when they go whereas front engine telegraph their punches which is one reason I think Ferrari moved the engine back to the front, as well as for getting a boot back
Good luck getting your exotica
I was slightly disappointed with the Countach's steering in the example I tried as it was fairly heavy but I put this down to the incredibly wide, super sticky tyres and the unfortunate slow speeds I tested it under...magnificent car but is a bugger to drive in traffic as you can't see to change lanes!!
Hard to believe how old they are and yet how much attention they get.
456s have dropped sharply since the 612 has arrived but we have too many GTAs here and who really wants an auto ? I got offered a nice 365GT4/2+2 the other day but the A/C needs to be brilliant for our conditions (35+ during summer!!)
One thing about mid-engined cars I've found is that it takes about 6 months for the ungifted to learn to drive these cars fast with real confidence as they bite hard when they go whereas front engine telegraph their punches which is one reason I think Ferrari moved the engine back to the front, as well as for getting a boot back
Good luck getting your exotica
308gt4 said:
As an aside, which Ferrari and Lambo do you consider the best of all time (not the fastest of greatest handling but the most fun) as a mate is considering a Muira SV and he is a modern supercar buff but feels a need to scratch the classic itch. He's had a 275 in the past and is thinking this way again (good choice in my book as well as the SV) but really has a Lambo itch.
John, all,
That really is a difficult one to answer, and it depends on so many different factors. From what you say I think he's looking at the Miura era (unintentional tongue-twister!), and if he's had a 275 he must know the difficulties he can expect. I would guess he has his own workshop and the patience to deal with every sort of problem - particularly sourcing parts or improvising.
In his shoes I would look at three alternatives. The Miura, the Maserati Bora and the Daytona. I've put them in 'potential trouble' order, with the Miura by far the biggest headache, the Bora an adventure into the relatively unknown, and the Daytona a fairly safe bet. On the credit side it would be fair to say that if they're still healthy runners a lot of the problems will have been ironed out by previous owners.
Then we get to the question of fun. I think we naturally tend to change our expectations with the passage of time, and I'm guessing that he wants something he can really feel - something challenging and atmospheric to own and drive. Isn't it amazing how we lose our sense of 'reality' in today's sophisticated anodyne cars? I was brought back down to earth the other day when elder son David turned up with a demonstrator Exige 2. He'd had the earlier Exige a while back, and I couldn't quite understand why he wanted to relive the experience - until I drove it!!
I fell out of the thing laughing and aching at the same time. Aching because we have some useful country roads round here, and I don't think I stopped changing gear for more than a few seconds in 20 miles! Everything felt so connected and positive and in sympathy with the tarmac that it was like being taken back thirty years. Not all that fast outright, but as quick as anything could be through the corners and on the short straights. Marvellous engine up to 7,500 rpm, a gearbox you could flick from cog to cog in a split second, and incredible anchors. The pedals were perfect for heel and toeing, the noise was fantastic, and it even felt well put together. Long time since I've felt so much a part of any car.
I think that's what we mean by fun. Just 'feeling' a car which has ambience and capability, and really using it. I can't say anything about the Miura or Bora as track cars - never done that - but I've driven the Daytona at Fiorano and got on OK, probably thanks to the conventional layout (an easier car than the 275). What you said John (re mid-engined cars) would probably apply to the Miura and Bora with interest, which is why I reckon the Daytona is the most fun for track days.
Road driving? The Miura seemed to me to be a real truck until you got onto a (relatively) open road. If you can get the space to use the power it seems to lighten up, and certainly comes alive. God-awful racket from behind your ears, but inspiring too. Both the Miura and Daytona feel heavy to start with, and both have fearsome gearboxes until they're thoroughly warmed up. In fact by today's standards they would be labelled "strong men only" but if you love the things you're obviously prepared to get used to the idiosyncracies and enjoy the challenge. On the other hand the Bora seemed quite light and civilised. An intriguing device with all the fascination you could hope for (and more), but I don't know enough about them to go into mechanical reliability or strength.
Having wittered away for so long I better shut up! Conclusion would be Miura if the patience is there to solve problems, and Daytona for much more usability on road and track. Good luck to your friend, and enjoy the 328 (envy here)!
>> Edited by McNab on Friday 12th November 21:35
Fascinating post, McNab. I am always intrigued by any post that includes the line " when I drove a Daytona at Fiorano" and your experience in these matters is really welcome.
I have my radar tuned in to all matters relating to interesting Italian sportscars. I have to filter many of the attitudes and experiences of these cars to the fact that I am 6'5' and so genetically disadvantaged where many Italian exotics are concerned.
Last Ferrari I drove was a 365 Boxer and suffice to say that i was not in a position comfortable enough to enjoy it. My legs seem to be too long.
A modern 360 fits nicely. But the premium to be paid over a ( to me ) more interesting classic is frustrating.
Its a shame that italian car designers in the 60's were clearly a short bunch !
I have my radar tuned in to all matters relating to interesting Italian sportscars. I have to filter many of the attitudes and experiences of these cars to the fact that I am 6'5' and so genetically disadvantaged where many Italian exotics are concerned.
Last Ferrari I drove was a 365 Boxer and suffice to say that i was not in a position comfortable enough to enjoy it. My legs seem to be too long.
A modern 360 fits nicely. But the premium to be paid over a ( to me ) more interesting classic is frustrating.
Its a shame that italian car designers in the 60's were clearly a short bunch !
Well I hope a Miura has more room than a Countach !
One of my crushing dissappointments was to be at lamborghini GB a few years back ( when they shared space with Porsche in Reading ) where the salesman had a lovely black Countach Anniversary warming up and idling , waiting for me to jump in and take it for a spin.
To my horror, I found that the electric seat would not go back far enough to accommodate my legs to the extent that I could depress the clutch properly. So I had to leave it there, idling away !! I was distraught and left cursing my height !
I am told that older Countach without the electric seats are more accomodating. But the way that i was deprived of the sound of that V12 was very distressing !
One of my crushing dissappointments was to be at lamborghini GB a few years back ( when they shared space with Porsche in Reading ) where the salesman had a lovely black Countach Anniversary warming up and idling , waiting for me to jump in and take it for a spin.
To my horror, I found that the electric seat would not go back far enough to accommodate my legs to the extent that I could depress the clutch properly. So I had to leave it there, idling away !! I was distraught and left cursing my height !
I am told that older Countach without the electric seats are more accomodating. But the way that i was deprived of the sound of that V12 was very distressing !
McNab said:
Then we get to the question of fun. I think we naturally tend to change our expectations with the passage of time, and I'm guessing that he wants something he can really feel - something challenging and atmospheric to own and drive. Isn't it amazing how we lose our sense of 'reality' in today's sophisticated anodyne cars? I was brought back down to earth the other day when elder son David turned up with a demonstrator Exige 2. He'd had the earlier Exige a while back, and I couldn't quite understand why he wanted to relive the experience - until I drove it!!
I fell out of the thing laughing and aching at the same time. Aching because we have some useful country roads round here, and I don't think I stopped changing gear for more than a few seconds in 20 miles! Everything felt so connected and positive and in sympathy with the tarmac that it was like being taken back thirty years. Not all that fast outright, but as quick as anything could be through the corners and on the short straights. Marvellous engine up to 7,500 rpm, a gearbox you could flick from cog to cog in a split second, and incredible anchors. The pedals were perfect for heel and toeing, the noise was fantastic, and it even felt well put together. Long time since I've felt so much a part of any car.
I think that's what we mean by fun. Just 'feeling' a car which has ambience and capability, and really using it. I can't say anything about the Miura or Bora as track cars - never done that - but I've driven the Daytona at Fiorano and got on OK, probably thanks to the conventional layout (an easier car than the 275). What you said John (re mid-engined cars) would probably apply to the Miura and Bora with interest, which is why I reckon the Daytona is the most fun for track days.
Road driving? The Miura seemed to me to be a real truck until you got onto a (relatively) open road. If you can get the space to use the power it seems to lighten up, and certainly comes alive. God-awful racket from behind your ears, but inspiring too. Both the Miura and Daytona feel heavy to start with, and both have fearsome gearboxes until they're thoroughly warmed up. In fact by today's standards they would be labelled "strong men only" but if you love the things you're obviously prepared to get used to the idiosyncracies and enjoy the challenge. On the other hand the Bora seemed quite light and civilised. An intriguing device with all the fascination you could hope for (and more), but I don't know enough about them to go into mechanical reliability or strength.
Having wittered away for so long I better shut up! Conclusion would be Miura if the patience is there to solve problems, and Daytona for much more usability on road and track. Good luck to your friend, and enjoy the 328 (envy here)!
>> Edited by McNab on Friday 12th November 21:35
Thanks for the time taken in replying Ian, much appreciated.
Interesting you mention the Bora because I think Citroen (???) had control of the company at that time and most of the magazines complained about the overassisted brakes and a few other foibles the French put in the car, along with the Merak as well I think, God I am getting old I can't remember the exact details
I think I know what you are saying about levels of problems as an aquaintence of mine had an SV until he died earlier this year and the last time I saw the SV and he was at a concour and just like any other old car he was carrying a full toolset in the boot, which upset his wife no end because she put her brand new coat in the boot and the oily tools rolled over her jacket and I distictly remember her kicking the car
, then Jerry and I had a conversation about the car or his good wife going and I jokingly said "it'll be a shame to get divorced but cest le vie (sorry Thom, I know no French ) I am seriously looking forward to the 328 as I am suffering withdrawal symptoms since rolling the GT4 in a freak accident (first one in 33 years of driving like a maniac and it's in one of the best handling cars I've owned) .
I noticed you said you went to a meet in your 308, and wondered why you've retained that car ( unless you've kept all the others as well) ?
Have another friend that refers to all Daytonas as trucks due to the heavy steering and he gets plenty of opportunities to drive them and many other exotica as he provides the best wheel alignments in the country (some people actually ship their cars thousands of kms for an alignment!!). He adores the older cars and raves all the time that the Boxer is the best car Ferrari ever made (and yet he drives a fibreglass 308gtb!) but I suspect he hasn't driven one at Fiorano where the speed would change his outlook
Sorry to ramble and ask so many questions but it is rare to get to talk to people who were THERE and KNOW what they are talking about.
Cheers
John
308gt4 said:
I noticed you said you went to a meet in your 308, and wondered why you've retained that car ( unless you've kept all the others as well)?
No, the 'meet' was a Ferrari-organised marketing effort to promote sales of the 328 and the Mondial when they became available in the UK. I went to Gleneagles in my 308 because it was my daily transport.
That's a point I forgot to mention. They were just as practical for local use as they were for an 800 mile trip to southern Austria - I never had a single breakdown or major drama of any sort!
Unfortunately I've never kept any car beyond its working life - anything from two to eight years (Audi Quattro). Each one had to be sold to pay for the next!
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