Poor comments, bullying and no bonus. Help Please.
Discussion
If someone said this to you at work, what would you do?
"If it was not for my people, your people would be left in the dark ages"
"Don't eat food from those guys as they are dirty foreigners"
And you also heard them say to someone
"Dirty foreign b
ds"
I happen not to be white.
The relationship is not good between this person and I, partly due to these comments and also because she's not a nice person and belittles me. It also led to the relationship issue being raised in my appraisal and which contributed to me not receiving a year end bonus of approx £5k.
I achieved 4 out of 5 objectives this year.
What would you do if you were me?
"If it was not for my people, your people would be left in the dark ages"
"Don't eat food from those guys as they are dirty foreigners"
And you also heard them say to someone
"Dirty foreign b
ds"I happen not to be white.
The relationship is not good between this person and I, partly due to these comments and also because she's not a nice person and belittles me. It also led to the relationship issue being raised in my appraisal and which contributed to me not receiving a year end bonus of approx £5k.
I achieved 4 out of 5 objectives this year.
What would you do if you were me?
Firstly, if I were you I'd change my username http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25436869
Secondly, how big a firm is this at? I don't know why you haven't gone straight to HR, especially if there are witnesses. Either that (and I appreciate that I am white and have a bit of a mouth on me) but next time you hear something like this I'd go publicly mental. In fact, even being white, if I heard that anywhere I worked I'd go fking mental. There's no place for scummy st like that.
Secondly, how big a firm is this at? I don't know why you haven't gone straight to HR, especially if there are witnesses. Either that (and I appreciate that I am white and have a bit of a mouth on me) but next time you hear something like this I'd go publicly mental. In fact, even being white, if I heard that anywhere I worked I'd go f
king mental. There's no place for scummy st like that.Koofler said:
Firstly, if I were you I'd change my username http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25436869
Secondly, how big a firm is this at? I don't know why you haven't gone straight to HR, especially if there are witnesses. Either that (and I appreciate that I am white and have a bit of a mouth on me) but next time you hear something like this I'd go publicly mental. In fact, even being white, if I heard that anywhere I worked I'd go fking mental. There's no place for scummy st like that.
He's not called Ian Watkins, therefore there's no need to change his name.Secondly, how big a firm is this at? I don't know why you haven't gone straight to HR, especially if there are witnesses. Either that (and I appreciate that I am white and have a bit of a mouth on me) but next time you hear something like this I'd go publicly mental. In fact, even being white, if I heard that anywhere I worked I'd go f
king mental. There's no place for scummy st like that.Sadly, you have a simple choice - fight or flight.
The behaviour of your manager is completely unacceptable in any, never mind a professional, environment. But if you wish to confront it you need to be able to prove it and build a wider support base to challenge it. If you feel that is possible then fighting is an option.
Sometimes the sensible solution may be to accept the chance of success may be low or the cost of fighting is too high. In which case put your efforts into escaping.
I've been through a similar situation and happy to discuss by PM if I an be any help.
The behaviour of your manager is completely unacceptable in any, never mind a professional, environment. But if you wish to confront it you need to be able to prove it and build a wider support base to challenge it. If you feel that is possible then fighting is an option.
Sometimes the sensible solution may be to accept the chance of success may be low or the cost of fighting is too high. In which case put your efforts into escaping.
I've been through a similar situation and happy to discuss by PM if I an be any help.
I had similar, though person concerned was friend of manager, so he was a bit stuck between sending either of us to HR.
Ended up leaving after a year to a better job. If you're crafty and want out anyway - let them make the mistakes (being cheated out of a bonus is evidence) .. make note of mistakes (accidentally cc'ing employment lawyer) .. and then utilise your time to find another role. Once you are out, then you can sink this unpleasant person if you wish. Normally, just embarrassing them in front of the whole company will suffice.
Ended up leaving after a year to a better job. If you're crafty and want out anyway - let them make the mistakes (being cheated out of a bonus is evidence) .. make note of mistakes (accidentally cc'ing employment lawyer) .. and then utilise your time to find another role. Once you are out, then you can sink this unpleasant person if you wish. Normally, just embarrassing them in front of the whole company will suffice.
shakotan said:
Koofler said:
Firstly, if I were you I'd change my username http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25436869
Secondly, how big a firm is this at? I don't know why you haven't gone straight to HR, especially if there are witnesses. Either that (and I appreciate that I am white and have a bit of a mouth on me) but next time you hear something like this I'd go publicly mental. In fact, even being white, if I heard that anywhere I worked I'd go fking mental. There's no place for scummy st like that.
He's not called Ian Watkins, therefore there's no need to change his name.Secondly, how big a firm is this at? I don't know why you haven't gone straight to HR, especially if there are witnesses. Either that (and I appreciate that I am white and have a bit of a mouth on me) but next time you hear something like this I'd go publicly mental. In fact, even being white, if I heard that anywhere I worked I'd go f
king mental. There's no place for scummy st like that.blindswelledrat said:
Are you saying that you didn't get a £5k bonus because you don't get on with a random woman in the company?
Come on, tell us the full story or don't bother.
As mentioned above, I achieved 4 of my 5 objectives. The 5th one was to submit the accounts of a company to companies house by the CH deadline. The accounts were not ready in time and were not audited and hence delayed. The audit was not planned by me, but my investors and it was left to the last minute. My error was I did not flag it to the director who sits at my investors, even though his accountants organised the audit sit next to him. I should have flagged it.Come on, tell us the full story or don't bother.
The numbers were inherited and so contained a lot of muck which needed to be cleaned up. Took time as no-one was around with knowledge of the historic numbers to sort out queries. I eventually managed to sort them out and got them to audit standard.
The other point is my assistant was upset as I held a meeting with him to highlighted areas for his development. He took the approach he was not prone to errors. Anyway, he was later very tearful when talking to the MD about the meeting.
I have met all bank reporting target even though at the start of the year my wife miscarried at 4.5 months and I took care of her during the day time and did my work over night, I carried the finance function single handedly for 2012 and 8 months in 2013 until the assistant joined. I did epic hours to get things done even when I highlighted I need suppose. I also implemented a new software system in the business, furthermore worked on a new payment project to increase revenues in the business. Produced budgets and forecasts within time limits.
Of course I could have done things better, there are areas of improvement. I rectified matters with my assistant and he realises the errors of his ways. I realised I should have had someone else in on the meeting to ensure control over any potential issues.
The commercial director was happy with my achievements this year however the late audit and filing of accounts, the issue with this rude rude women and the tearful assistant meant no bonus.
If I am being unfair then please say, so I can adjust my line of thinking. I don't expect a full bonus as I missed 1 of the 5 objectives however should receive acknowledgement for the rest of my achievements.
Edited by Lostprophet on Thursday 19th December 14:40
My company is small. 6 employees in total however we have a big support team with many investors.
My line manager is the Commercial director, and also in charge of HR.
I have spoken to ACAS. They said the employers need to be fair and so I should appeal to another manager.
I did not the chance to speak about the nasty comments as the phone line cut off. I am thinking to put this in writing as a formal complaint.
This way I will cover my back.
I get the feeling the commercial director wants me out.
My line manager is the Commercial director, and also in charge of HR.
I have spoken to ACAS. They said the employers need to be fair and so I should appeal to another manager.
I did not the chance to speak about the nasty comments as the phone line cut off. I am thinking to put this in writing as a formal complaint.
This way I will cover my back.
I get the feeling the commercial director wants me out.
Lostprophet said:
If someone said this to you at work, what would you do?
"If it was not for my people, your people would be left in the dark ages"
"Don't eat food from those guys as they are dirty foreigners"
And you also heard them say to someone
"Dirty foreign bds"
I happen not to be white.
The relationship is not good between this person and I, partly due to these comments and also because she's not a nice person and belittles me. It also led to the relationship issue being raised in my appraisal and which contributed to me not receiving a year end bonus of approx £5k.
I achieved 4 out of 5 objectives this year.
What would you do if you were me?
Not sure what your colour has to do with it, as long as you're not 'foreign'! "If it was not for my people, your people would be left in the dark ages"
"Don't eat food from those guys as they are dirty foreigners"
And you also heard them say to someone
"Dirty foreign b
ds"I happen not to be white.
The relationship is not good between this person and I, partly due to these comments and also because she's not a nice person and belittles me. It also led to the relationship issue being raised in my appraisal and which contributed to me not receiving a year end bonus of approx £5k.
I achieved 4 out of 5 objectives this year.
What would you do if you were me?
Was the bonus dependent on you achieving 5 out of 5 or just the 4 you managed?
Valid question, there was no real weighting. The bonus was not dependant upon the 5th objective. It was never stated if it was.
ACAS said not all the employees would have achieved all of their bonuses but still received a bonus. That is unfair and so I am right to appeal.
I am a second generation immigrant. My father and mother were both 'foreigners'. I do find the comment "Dirty foreign bds" offensive. That's personal of course.
ACAS said not all the employees would have achieved all of their bonuses but still received a bonus. That is unfair and so I am right to appeal.
I am a second generation immigrant. My father and mother were both 'foreigners'. I do find the comment "Dirty foreign bds" offensive. That's personal of course.
blindswelledrat said:
So in your explanation above you didn't mention the relationship with the woman at all.
I honestly cant tell whether this thread is about your bonus, or this horrible woman?
Are they related or not?
Is this woman superior to you?
sorry for the lack of clarity! Being concise and to the point is another weakness.I honestly cant tell whether this thread is about your bonus, or this horrible woman?
Are they related or not?
Is this woman superior to you?
This woman runs a canal boat company, her numbers feed into my banking reports. I do not report to her, nor does she report to me.
This woman also reports to the commercial director (my manager).
I worked damn hard all year, achieved a lot, received a lot of acknowledgement throughout the year by investors and during my year end appraisal the director brings up my relationship with this woman as a reason why I did not get my bonus, along with not meeting my 5th objective.
£5k is £5k.
Maybe I'm a flapper however I do feel hard done by.
I was wondering what others would do in my position.
£5k is £5k.
Maybe I'm a flapper however I do feel hard done by.
I was wondering what others would do in my position.
Lostprophet said:
Valid question, there was no real weighting. The bonus was not dependant upon the 5th objective. It was never stated if it was.
ACAS said not all the employees would have achieved all of their bonuses but still received a bonus. That is unfair and so I am right to appeal.
I am a second generation immigrant. My father and mother were both 'foreigners'. I do find the comment "Dirty foreign bds" offensive. That's personal of course.
Again, you didn't tell the full story, all you said was that you happen not to be white...ACAS said not all the employees would have achieved all of their bonuses but still received a bonus. That is unfair and so I am right to appeal.
I am a second generation immigrant. My father and mother were both 'foreigners'. I do find the comment "Dirty foreign bds" offensive. That's personal of course.
Lostprophet said:
I worked damn hard all year, achieved a lot, received a lot of acknowledgement throughout the year by investors and during my year end appraisal the director brings up my relationship with this woman as a reason why I did not get my bonus, along with not meeting my 5th objective.
£5k is £5k.
Maybe I'm a flapper however I do feel hard done by.
I was wondering what others would do in my position.
I'd probably tell him that the woman is a filthy racist and that's why you don't get on.£5k is £5k.
Maybe I'm a flapper however I do feel hard done by.
I was wondering what others would do in my position.
Lostprophet said:
during my year end appraisal the director brings up my relationship with this woman as a reason why I did not get my bonus, along with not meeting my 5th objective.
So there were TWO reasons for getting no bonus? Did you explain to the director your problem with this woman? And did you ask him why you received zero instead of something? In my case, I did explain both and was given a 'tough luck - nothing you can do about it' response which was, to be fair, at least unambiguous. A couple of months later they offered me an unconditional bonus if I stayed on. Unfortunately it was about a week before I handed in my notice! My tuppenceworth is that a bonus has got f*k all to do with what you have done, but more to do with if they want you to continue. I try to view things contractually and just move on if it doesn't feel right.Edited by fido on Thursday 19th December 16:11
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