Clacket Lane C'wise Closure 16 Dec - No Warning Signs
Discussion
I would be interested in any comments from other regular users of the South Eastern half of the M25 on my below email of earlier this morning (16th December) to Graham Dalton, CEO of the Highways Agency, regarding tonight's disgraceful closure of the M25 Clockwise at Clacket's Lane without any form of signing or warning of the closure on the previous 35 mile approach route on the M2 Eastbound, M20 Eastbound, M26 Eastbound and then M25 Clockwise
This was a closure of the service area that the Highways Agency Contact Centre on 0300 123 5000 also said that they had received no notification of from the firm carrying out the extremely slow project to create rush hour time runninng in the motorway's hard shoulder lane.
Surely this kind of thing is pretty unusual, especially at such a large and well used motorway service area critical to the main Channel Tunnel lorry freight route.
Certainly I have never experienced an unwarned closure of such as large 24 hour motorway service area in some 33 years prevous experience of using the UK highways network.
Original Message --------
Subject: M25 Clacket Lane Closure Unsigned + Unhelpful Call Centre Staff
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 02:52:01 +0000
To Graham Dalton - CEO, Highways Agency
Dear Mr Dalton,
M25 Clacket Lane Closure Unsigned + Unhelpful Call Centre Staff
I am writing to you to complain in the strongest possible terms about my personal safety as a driver having been placed at risk when I was unable to take a break in the middle of a 60 mile journey from the Medway area of Kent to an address near the Surrey/West Sussex border south of Dorking at a point almost exactly in the middle of that journey as planned on the clockwise carriageway of the M25 at Clacket Lane Services (between Junctions 5 and 6 of the motorway) at around 12.15am this evening (Monday 16th December 2013).
This created an in my opinion extremely dangerous situation since I was making this journey of about 65 minutes duration whilst also suffering from an extremely heavy near flu like cold (it is clearly not actually proper influenza since at the age of 50 I have had proper influenza only twice in my life and on each occasion I was in bed for a week with a highest temperature of around 104F and also delirious for a day or more on each occasion) and judged that I needed to break the journey in the middle to drink some coffee and take a short walk. I do not believe I was actually over tired since I had something like 9 hours sleep last night before waking up at around 10 am this morning. However it was wise to stop and take some air and have a coffee due to the effects of the heavy cold.
However after approaching Clacket Lane Services on the M25 anti clockwise by driving along around 10 miles along the M20 and then 16 miles along the M26 and around 10 miles along the M25 at no point had I seen either any permanent or electronic gantry signs warning me that Clacket Lane was closed and as I approached the junction for the Clacket Lane Services after already being in roadworks (to widen the motorway by permitting running in the rush hour on the hard shoulder as I understand it) with a 50mph limit for several miles all I could see was a coning system pushing the traffic out in to lanes 3 and 4 of the motorway around two miles before reaching the services. I therefore watched carefully as the distance counted down to the normal entry to the slip road expecting there to be a passageway across the closed lanes to reach the services but instead all I found was a continuing line of cones blocking my path and in addition on the slip road to the services itself I saw several sets of cones across the slip road clearly blocking all entry to it by traffic.
I find this an extraordinary situation as I would clearly have expected the closure of Clacket Lane Services Clockwise to be shown well in advance using your matrix gantry signing over the previous 30 or more miles of my journey and I would also have expected the closure to be marked by physical signs on the motorway explaining the closure and giving the distance to the location of any other petrol stations open 24/7 within the nearby vicinity. Instead none of the matrix sign displays were in use to either slow down the traffic or mark the closed lanes approaching the Clacket Lane services slip road closure and nor was there any other explanation of the situation on the ground.
Since as you will be aware in this country it is our unfortunate longstanding habit not to make any adequate provision for safe stopping on most of the UK Motorway network at anywhere other than a full service area (unlike France where a service area to stop and use a toilet or have a picnic exists every 10 to 15 km in addition to full blown service areas at roughly 50km intervals) and it was also late at night your Agency's and/or the workmen in question's actions in closing the service area without notification and advance warning in effect forced me to continue driving while I was not feeling particularly well in order to reach my home. This was because at this time of night my home was about the only other place with any safe facilities for stopping or taking refreshment such as a coffee.
On getting to my home address I phoned your main Contact Centre at around or just after 1am and spoke to a gentleman, who was probably in his 40s or 50s judging from the tone of his voice, who I could only characterise as not being a people person and having a brusque, unhelpful and unsympathetic manner given the catalogue of apparent clear cut errors by the Highways Agency with not signing a major service area closure on a major motorway overnight.
I do not know the name of the gentleman I spoke to but I did not withhold my phone number when calling 0300 123 500 from my landline phone number so it should be traceable on your call logging system. In any event I gave the person I spoke to full details of what had happened but he did not seem at all shocked, surprised, concerned or sympathetic about the plight I had been placed in and nor did he offer any reassurance at all that other motorists would not be left continuing their journey when they needed to break it or running out of fuel due to unexpectedly finding this service station closed. On reflecting on the call and how it had been handled I therefore called your Contact Centre again to seek reassurance that signing would now be put in place and got through to this same gentleman who was again unsympathetic and I would say authoritarian in his approach and who then for no apparent reason (at no time had used any swear words or been rude to him in my opinion although I had been forthright in my opinion of the workmen who seemed to have carried out this unauthorised service area closure putting my personal safety at risk). He then told me was going to disconnect my call and did so. I then called back and got through to a clearly different gentleman who was a colleague (the call centre is in Birmingham) and asked him how many members of staff were on shift and who had cut off my call. He unfortunately declined to do so citing what I am sure was a spurious need for "data protection".
This is the first time in over 30 years of driving in the UK that I have encountered a service area closed in this way without any warning or explanation on the ground locally and in view of the danger to my safety that I considered the closure had caused me I was naturally upset. I think all your call centre adviser had to do to handle the situation in the circumstances was to empathise and imagine how he would feel in this situation. Instead he was one of those call centre advisers who do not seem to enjoy their work or taking phone calls from the public and he in my opinion went out of his way to be non empathetic in a situation where he should have been as empathetic and reassuring as possible to the caller.
In the circumstances I am looking for the fullest possible investigation and explanation by you, in your position as Chief Executive of the Highways Agency, as to how the Clacket Lane Services Clockwise on the M25 were closed tonight shortly after midnight (on Monday 16th December 2013) without any warning or explanation. In addition I would also like you to investigate the manner in which your male member of call centre staff handled my call tonight, including disconnecting it without my permission or agreement, as I believe his behaviour to have been quite unreasonable and totally inappropriate.
I look forward to hearing from you at the earliest possible opportunity.
Regards,
This was a closure of the service area that the Highways Agency Contact Centre on 0300 123 5000 also said that they had received no notification of from the firm carrying out the extremely slow project to create rush hour time runninng in the motorway's hard shoulder lane.
Surely this kind of thing is pretty unusual, especially at such a large and well used motorway service area critical to the main Channel Tunnel lorry freight route.
Certainly I have never experienced an unwarned closure of such as large 24 hour motorway service area in some 33 years prevous experience of using the UK highways network.
Original Message --------
Subject: M25 Clacket Lane Closure Unsigned + Unhelpful Call Centre Staff
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 02:52:01 +0000
To Graham Dalton - CEO, Highways Agency
Dear Mr Dalton,
M25 Clacket Lane Closure Unsigned + Unhelpful Call Centre Staff
I am writing to you to complain in the strongest possible terms about my personal safety as a driver having been placed at risk when I was unable to take a break in the middle of a 60 mile journey from the Medway area of Kent to an address near the Surrey/West Sussex border south of Dorking at a point almost exactly in the middle of that journey as planned on the clockwise carriageway of the M25 at Clacket Lane Services (between Junctions 5 and 6 of the motorway) at around 12.15am this evening (Monday 16th December 2013).
This created an in my opinion extremely dangerous situation since I was making this journey of about 65 minutes duration whilst also suffering from an extremely heavy near flu like cold (it is clearly not actually proper influenza since at the age of 50 I have had proper influenza only twice in my life and on each occasion I was in bed for a week with a highest temperature of around 104F and also delirious for a day or more on each occasion) and judged that I needed to break the journey in the middle to drink some coffee and take a short walk. I do not believe I was actually over tired since I had something like 9 hours sleep last night before waking up at around 10 am this morning. However it was wise to stop and take some air and have a coffee due to the effects of the heavy cold.
However after approaching Clacket Lane Services on the M25 anti clockwise by driving along around 10 miles along the M20 and then 16 miles along the M26 and around 10 miles along the M25 at no point had I seen either any permanent or electronic gantry signs warning me that Clacket Lane was closed and as I approached the junction for the Clacket Lane Services after already being in roadworks (to widen the motorway by permitting running in the rush hour on the hard shoulder as I understand it) with a 50mph limit for several miles all I could see was a coning system pushing the traffic out in to lanes 3 and 4 of the motorway around two miles before reaching the services. I therefore watched carefully as the distance counted down to the normal entry to the slip road expecting there to be a passageway across the closed lanes to reach the services but instead all I found was a continuing line of cones blocking my path and in addition on the slip road to the services itself I saw several sets of cones across the slip road clearly blocking all entry to it by traffic.
I find this an extraordinary situation as I would clearly have expected the closure of Clacket Lane Services Clockwise to be shown well in advance using your matrix gantry signing over the previous 30 or more miles of my journey and I would also have expected the closure to be marked by physical signs on the motorway explaining the closure and giving the distance to the location of any other petrol stations open 24/7 within the nearby vicinity. Instead none of the matrix sign displays were in use to either slow down the traffic or mark the closed lanes approaching the Clacket Lane services slip road closure and nor was there any other explanation of the situation on the ground.
Since as you will be aware in this country it is our unfortunate longstanding habit not to make any adequate provision for safe stopping on most of the UK Motorway network at anywhere other than a full service area (unlike France where a service area to stop and use a toilet or have a picnic exists every 10 to 15 km in addition to full blown service areas at roughly 50km intervals) and it was also late at night your Agency's and/or the workmen in question's actions in closing the service area without notification and advance warning in effect forced me to continue driving while I was not feeling particularly well in order to reach my home. This was because at this time of night my home was about the only other place with any safe facilities for stopping or taking refreshment such as a coffee.
On getting to my home address I phoned your main Contact Centre at around or just after 1am and spoke to a gentleman, who was probably in his 40s or 50s judging from the tone of his voice, who I could only characterise as not being a people person and having a brusque, unhelpful and unsympathetic manner given the catalogue of apparent clear cut errors by the Highways Agency with not signing a major service area closure on a major motorway overnight.
I do not know the name of the gentleman I spoke to but I did not withhold my phone number when calling 0300 123 500 from my landline phone number so it should be traceable on your call logging system. In any event I gave the person I spoke to full details of what had happened but he did not seem at all shocked, surprised, concerned or sympathetic about the plight I had been placed in and nor did he offer any reassurance at all that other motorists would not be left continuing their journey when they needed to break it or running out of fuel due to unexpectedly finding this service station closed. On reflecting on the call and how it had been handled I therefore called your Contact Centre again to seek reassurance that signing would now be put in place and got through to this same gentleman who was again unsympathetic and I would say authoritarian in his approach and who then for no apparent reason (at no time had used any swear words or been rude to him in my opinion although I had been forthright in my opinion of the workmen who seemed to have carried out this unauthorised service area closure putting my personal safety at risk). He then told me was going to disconnect my call and did so. I then called back and got through to a clearly different gentleman who was a colleague (the call centre is in Birmingham) and asked him how many members of staff were on shift and who had cut off my call. He unfortunately declined to do so citing what I am sure was a spurious need for "data protection".
This is the first time in over 30 years of driving in the UK that I have encountered a service area closed in this way without any warning or explanation on the ground locally and in view of the danger to my safety that I considered the closure had caused me I was naturally upset. I think all your call centre adviser had to do to handle the situation in the circumstances was to empathise and imagine how he would feel in this situation. Instead he was one of those call centre advisers who do not seem to enjoy their work or taking phone calls from the public and he in my opinion went out of his way to be non empathetic in a situation where he should have been as empathetic and reassuring as possible to the caller.
In the circumstances I am looking for the fullest possible investigation and explanation by you, in your position as Chief Executive of the Highways Agency, as to how the Clacket Lane Services Clockwise on the M25 were closed tonight shortly after midnight (on Monday 16th December 2013) without any warning or explanation. In addition I would also like you to investigate the manner in which your male member of call centre staff handled my call tonight, including disconnecting it without my permission or agreement, as I believe his behaviour to have been quite unreasonable and totally inappropriate.
I look forward to hearing from you at the earliest possible opportunity.
Regards,
Edited by Capvermell on Monday 16th December 12:15
kiethton said:
You needed a break in the middle of an hour long (65 mile) drive?
Read my post as this made perfectly clear I was suffering from a very heavy cold and my need to stop was also greatly aggravated by the long 50mph works section of over 10 miles in length.I never normally need to make a stop on this journey unless I need to get petrol.
Of course I clearly forgot that many of you on here are Type A personality Subaru Impreza driving types who seem to treat all forum discussion as a form of point scoring duel.
If you don't have anything constructive to say in response to my post and don't know the location in question then don't post is my strong advice to those people who clearly have far more free time on their hands than I do to spend time trawling all the posts and making numerous silly quips.
Edited by Capvermell on Monday 16th December 12:19
2.5pi said:
OP I suggest you delete your telephone number
Thanks for pointing out my accidental slip. I have managed to removed it now the Mods have restored my Edit rights to my own post (which seem to disappear are only a few minutes.However I think you must have far more time on your hands than me to spend Monday lunchtime trawling posts that don't involve you personally to find a point to pounce on.
Grandad7184 said:
Or take a break at Cobham 16 miles away or 15-20mins depending on speed? i drive that road twice a day and knew full well they would be closed as it was displayed for 2 weeks before hand
No help to me when I was exiting the M25 at J8 but then driving another 16 miles home through Reigate and beyond on wet dank A roads.As I said I was counting on being able to stop there as it was exactly half way through my journey and I was ailing with a very heavy cold.
Grandad7184 said:
i drive that road twice a day and knew full well they would be closed as it was displayed for 2 weeks before hand
Well some of us only drive this section once every 2 months and whilst I have a perfectly good set of eyes there were no gantry signs in use on the M2, M20 or M26 Eastbound or M25 Clockwise warning of the closure so one could make other plans and not rely on Clacket's Lane being open as it normally would be 99.9$ of the time.I also have a TomTom HD Traffic SatNav and it did not warn me of the closure of the service area.
Why does this seem to be a flaming forum where members attack others instead of showing solidarity. We surely all ought to be outrage the Highways Agency is taking well over a year to do some very simple work that will in any event result in more drivers being killed when it is complete, just like all of Boris's ridiculous blue paint cycle lanes through the most dangerous parts of large Central London rondabouts.
ok fair point but then if you felt like you did can you honestly say you were in full control of your car. as your responses will have been affected if you felt like you did?.
you could have adjusted your journery and went M23 and stopped at pease pottage and then went on the A264 or nurmerous roads about there to get to your destination or just pull in to a bus stop or closed garage in reigate to get some fresh air or stretch your legs.
i do think the letter is over re action and but the service you had from the call centre does need looking in to.
you could have adjusted your journery and went M23 and stopped at pease pottage and then went on the A264 or nurmerous roads about there to get to your destination or just pull in to a bus stop or closed garage in reigate to get some fresh air or stretch your legs.
i do think the letter is over re action and but the service you had from the call centre does need looking in to.
Capvermell said:
2.5pi said:
OP I suggest you delete your telephone number
Thanks for pointing out my accidental slip. I have managed to removed it now the Mods have restored my Edit rights to my own post (which seem to disappear are only a few minutes.However I think you must have far more time on your hands than me to spend Monday lunchtime trawling posts that don't involve you personally to find a point to pounce on.
carreauchompeur said:
Well it be on to this.
Were there no other junctions you could have pulled off on for a break in this epic journey?
Bit of a pain if he'd been driving an HGV or coach with a tachograph running & had planned his journey to include a statutory rest break at Clacket Lane though? Even worse if said HGV was running low on fuel. TBH, I'd normally expect a warning before the previous services along the lines of "M25 Clacket Lane services closed" - certainly see things like "<services name> No HGV fuel" etc often enough.Were there no other junctions you could have pulled off on for a break in this epic journey?
carreauchompeur said:
Yeah, I'd agree that some sort of signage would be good, I was just chuckling at the slightly overblown nature of the post though.
That's only because you clearly come on here to have a chuckle and poke fun at others (probably having nothing more exciting to fill your day) rather than to have a proper discussion about the negligent Highways Agency not doing their job properly.The Highways Agency main management centre for the motorways in Birmingham had not been given any information the services were closed last night (this is what they themselves told me) and this is why they had not signed the closure on any part of the advance route as they should have done from about 30 miles out when I and other motorists had other journey possibilities.
As for all these characters posting here who say well I travel the road daily and I know they have been closing the services at night that isn't the point as the people likely to be caught out and run out of fuel or go to sleep at the wheel are those like me who don't travel the road daily. Also the approach route along the M20 and M26 is the main route from the Channel Tunnel so loads of motorists who are not regulars could be expected to be making this journey. The M26 is of course a centre of absurd non investment by the Highways Agency being in crying need of both widening to three lanes (although I expect they will only want to go in for their death on the hard shoulder road widening solution funded by speeding fines from all the lovely new overhead gantries) and complete updating and replacement of its totally outdated driver information systems. This seems more than ironic given that it is the main link artery between the M20 through the Medway and the M25 both of which have far more up to date systems available.
As to suggestions I should sit in a cold car in the dark (presumably in some dark lay by where a truck might plough in to the back of me) when I felt in need of revival with a hot drink in a warm resturant clearly that wasn't going to help me.
Its quite clear this forum (as I have also found in the past) is inhabited by far too many tailgaters and white van men (usually one and the same thing although BMWs nearly always mindlessly tailgate too) who just enjoy winding people up rather than making serious and constructive posts. Perhaps says this says much about the mentality of people who drive for a living but also spend the vast majority of their time on the road finding ways to terminate their own and other driver's lives (by ploughing in to the back of them) at the earliest possible opportunity. Not understanding about and/or caring about stopping distance is clearly evidence of either a serious lack of intelligence or a very serious form of personality disorder.
Capvermell said:
Thanks for pointing out my accidental slip. I have managed to removed it now the Mods have restored my Edit rights to my own post (which seem to disappear are only a few minutes.
However I think you must have far more time on your hands than me to spend Monday lunchtime trawling posts that don't involve you personally to find a point to pounce on.
I think this post sums up your personality perfectly.However I think you must have far more time on your hands than me to spend Monday lunchtime trawling posts that don't involve you personally to find a point to pounce on.
TribalI said:
think this post sums up your personality perfectly.
There is clearly a total and utter lack of adequate moderation in this forum as mindless "ad hominem" attacks seem to be the norm.I think your quite deliberately flaming post that adds nothing at all to the dicussion about the M25 Services closure says everything there possibly is to say about you and your reason for posting here.
It seems that when White Van Men have lost the intellectual argument that resorting to drunken pub like taunts of Billy No Mates and Baldie etc are about the only form of response they are capable of.
Capvermell said:
There is clearly a total and utter lack of adequate moderation in this forum as mindless "ad hominem" attacks seem to be the norm.
I think your quite deliberately flaming post that adds nothing at all to the dicussion about the M25 Services closure says everything there possibly is to say about you and your reason for posting here.
It seems that when White Van Men have lost the intellectual argument that resorting to drunken pub like taunts of Billy No Mates and Baldie etc are about the only form of response they are capable of.
Perhaps you can point out how my post constitutes 'flaming'?I think your quite deliberately flaming post that adds nothing at all to the dicussion about the M25 Services closure says everything there possibly is to say about you and your reason for posting here.
It seems that when White Van Men have lost the intellectual argument that resorting to drunken pub like taunts of Billy No Mates and Baldie etc are about the only form of response they are capable of.
So you stopping for a leg stretch and hot brew will mean your in 100% control of your vehicle after you saying in your post you were not well. Maybe reasons for only you to know why you couldn't wait and do your journey during the day when you feel better and if there is then ok. We all know the highways agency and how bad and good they can be
I'm not a tail gaiter I've always applied the correct stopping distances if and when I could. And I haven't and never will drive a white van.
As I said I'm not having a pop at you op I'm only bringing up points relevant to your post.
I'm not a tail gaiter I've always applied the correct stopping distances if and when I could. And I haven't and never will drive a white van.
As I said I'm not having a pop at you op I'm only bringing up points relevant to your post.
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