More advice required re a reference

[mini me]

Hopefully someone can offer some advice here. Long story i shall try to keep short.

I have been offered a new job (woohoo) pending suitable references from last three years employement. There should be no issue with this as i have ahad a more than good 6 years working for my current employer.

The form from new employer (B) says that they need two references which cover the last 3 yrs employement. for this they need a contact at HR.

No worries I think and fill in said form for company A's HR director.

A couple of days ago I get an email from Company B HR saying that A wont give a reference as I havent gievn them a termination date. I speak to my line manager (my current position is not at company A headquarters) and he, well is not much cop. I just had an email from teh manager at A HQ saying the same thing, no reference without an end of employment date.

The email chain from B says the same and the B HR chap had replied just to fill in this section with "current employee no termination date" but they are apprently refusing.

Catch 22, I cannot give notice until B are happy with reference and give me a start date/ the go ahead to hand in notice. I cannot get reference without first having given notice.

it being Friday afternoon abviously nobody is about to ring etc so....

What would you do?

Where do I stand legally?

Any advice? im mighty peeved at the mo as this seem very unprofessional to me.
apologies for bad spelling and grammer. Im angry!

[Siscar]

There is nothing legal about it, nothing forces a company to give a reference. Get in touch with the potential new employer and talk to them about it.

[hornetrider]

What about a reference from a senior colleague instead of HR?

[mini me]

hornetrider said:

What about a reference from a senior colleague instead of HR?

yeah thats my plan at the moment but its probably going to have to wait until monday as there is nobody about this afternoon. poets day I suppose.

Im just a bit put out by it really. Seems petty to me.

I thought there was a requirement for them to provide a reference if requested but obviously not.

You would though wouldnt you?

[Siscar]

Actually many companies don't, it's a potential nightmare and it's very common for any reference to be just completely simple, dates worked, position held, very little else.

[mini me]

I think thats exactly it. I havent seen the actual request but from the notes flying about etc I gather it is just employment date and position etc. Im worried that they are tryiong to stitch me up in some way. I mean why would they hold off for notice what difference does it make?

In a way im doing them a favour by letting them know early no?

[conanius]

Siscar said:

Actually many companies don't, it's a potential nightmare and it's very common for any reference to be just completely simple, dates worked, position held, very little else.

The last reference I saw was like this:

'I can confirm that x worked here from this date to present in the position of z'

'We know of nothing to suggest that they are not of good character'

'this reference is not legally binding blah blah'

[Happy Jim]

So you haven't resigned yet but want a reference to work somewhere else.....er, nope I wouldn't give a reference so that one of my employees could leave either.

I would after of course though (company standard response though).

Jim

[mini me]

But you would hand in your notice without a guaranteed new position?

And why would you want to stop someone who obviously didn't want to work
For you anymore?

[Siscar]

mini me said:

But you would hand in your notice without a guaranteed new position?

And why would you want to stop someone who obviously didn't want to work
For you anymore?

Wel the main fault here is with the new employer, they should make the offer, sort out all the details, allow you to resign and then ask for a reference from a current employer. Not sending an offer until they have a reference from a current employer is wrong, very unfeeling because it screws your existing employment if they don't like it and don't make the offer.

Personally I'd be asking if they are someone I'd like to work for,

[NDA]

Many employers will offer you a job 'subject to satisfactory references.....'

What is it that this new company want to get from your reference? That you actually work there? Show them payslips and, as previously mentioned, get a character reference from someone else.

[mini me]

Yeah I'm not 100% sure as I haven't seen the actual reference request but I get the impression it's just have I worked at said company and for how long and what role. I think it's just a box ticking exercise really but the last thing I want is to resign and then be left high and dry for whatever reason.

There should be no reason for a poor reference but I get the impression that my current employer will do anything they can to try and trip me up. As they seem to be doing so already.

[mini me]

Siscar said:

Wel the main fault here is with the new employer, they should make the offer, sort out all the details, allow you to resign and then ask for a reference from a current employer. Not sending an offer until they have a reference from a current employer is wrong, very unfeeling because it screws your existing employment if they don't like it and don't make the offer.

Personally I'd be asking if they are someone I'd like to work for,

Well they have made me an offer. I have accepted it, but it is subject to suitable references.

[spikeyhead]

mini me said:

Siscar said:

Wel the main fault here is with the new employer, they should make the offer, sort out all the details, allow you to resign and then ask for a reference from a current employer. Not sending an offer until they have a reference from a current employer is wrong, very unfeeling because it screws your existing employment if they don't like it and don't make the offer.

Personally I'd be asking if they are someone I'd like to work for,

Well they have made me an offer. I have accepted it, but it is subject to suitable references.

Then hand your notice in, unless you're most of the way through a disciplinary process for excessive procrastination.

[Siscar]

spikeyhead said:

mini me said:

Siscar said:

Wel the main fault here is with the new employer, they should make the offer, sort out all the details, allow you to resign and then ask for a reference from a current employer. Not sending an offer until they have a reference from a current employer is wrong, very unfeeling because it screws your existing employment if they don't like it and don't make the offer.

Personally I'd be asking if they are someone I'd like to work for,

Well they have made me an offer. I have accepted it, but it is subject to suitable references.

Then hand your notice in, unless you're most of the way through a disciplinary process for excessive procrastination.

Yes, if they haven't given you a start date then get that from them and resign.

[NDA]

mini me said:

Well they have made me an offer. I have accepted it, but it is subject to suitable references.

Then you're clear to go.

Unless you have something nasty lurking in your employment history, then you should have enough to be able to resign.