Mixing and beat matching
Discussion
Question for all you DJ types.
A mate of mine turns 40 in a couple of months and is planning a bit of a do. He is a pretty accomplished DJ himself (weekly radio slot, monthly club night, ski resort promos, etc etc) but he doesn't want to spend an evening behind the decks so he's looking for people to step up - which I rather rashly offered to do. I've got a musical ear, can play a couple of instruments, but other than the youth club disco more years ago than I care to remember, I'm no DJ!
He's mainly into House stuff, so my bright idea was a session/mix of disco from his year of birth, 1974. I've got hold of 15 or so tracks, but chucking them at VirtualDJ shows the BPM to range between 107 and 149, with the main clump between about 113 and 130. So, my question is, is it possible to mix tracks with that wide a BPM range or am I flogging a dead horse? And if it's possible, what's the best way to go about it - slow a few down, speed a few up, and then try and fudge a difference of a couple of BPM per track as they are mixed? Or what?
As you can probably tell, I don't know a lot! My intention before I found all the speed differences was just to let VDJ sync each track and crossfade at the appropriate moment! I do realise that in all reality it's probably going to sound pretty cack, but if I can time my slot to a point where most people there have had a few, and I haven't had too many, I might just wing it!
TIA.
A mate of mine turns 40 in a couple of months and is planning a bit of a do. He is a pretty accomplished DJ himself (weekly radio slot, monthly club night, ski resort promos, etc etc) but he doesn't want to spend an evening behind the decks so he's looking for people to step up - which I rather rashly offered to do. I've got a musical ear, can play a couple of instruments, but other than the youth club disco more years ago than I care to remember, I'm no DJ!
He's mainly into House stuff, so my bright idea was a session/mix of disco from his year of birth, 1974. I've got hold of 15 or so tracks, but chucking them at VirtualDJ shows the BPM to range between 107 and 149, with the main clump between about 113 and 130. So, my question is, is it possible to mix tracks with that wide a BPM range or am I flogging a dead horse? And if it's possible, what's the best way to go about it - slow a few down, speed a few up, and then try and fudge a difference of a couple of BPM per track as they are mixed? Or what?
As you can probably tell, I don't know a lot! My intention before I found all the speed differences was just to let VDJ sync each track and crossfade at the appropriate moment! I do realise that in all reality it's probably going to sound pretty cack, but if I can time my slot to a point where most people there have had a few, and I haven't had too many, I might just wing it!
TIA.
Without knowing the tracks. Bog standard mixing is never going to happen unless you A/ time stretch the f
k out of some of the songs in another software package or B/ you really abuse the tempo features on a CDJ. If you're on turntables it's not happening. Good old fashioned Technic record decks have a -/+8. As a rule I try not to go above +6 when mixing but then rap is more vocal led so stupidly fast sounds stupidly fast.
Then there is the other issue that tracks from 1974 are going to be more than likely live instruments. The best drummers with all the will in the world are never going to be as precise as a drum machine so where as the first 8 bars maybe 113bpm the second set of 8 bars may speed up or slow down ever so slightly. You only really notice these things through trying to mix old songs with new ones and a slight nudge of the record deck can fix this. Or as above you can stretch the song to match a rigid BPM.
That being said it can be done if you want to be a bit creative. A lot of slow love songs can be 60-70 bpm which goes halves into a house/garage beat at 120-140 bpm. BPM is only one facet of djing. You have the pace of a song to consider. If the hats are behind the snares it can give a lazy slow paced feel. If the hats are infront of the snares the pace quickens.
I could go on for ages as you can probably guess lol. What are the songs if you don't mind me asking.
k out of some of the songs in another software package or B/ you really abuse the tempo features on a CDJ. If you're on turntables it's not happening. Good old fashioned Technic record decks have a -/+8. As a rule I try not to go above +6 when mixing but then rap is more vocal led so stupidly fast sounds stupidly fast. Then there is the other issue that tracks from 1974 are going to be more than likely live instruments. The best drummers with all the will in the world are never going to be as precise as a drum machine so where as the first 8 bars maybe 113bpm the second set of 8 bars may speed up or slow down ever so slightly. You only really notice these things through trying to mix old songs with new ones and a slight nudge of the record deck can fix this. Or as above you can stretch the song to match a rigid BPM.
That being said it can be done if you want to be a bit creative. A lot of slow love songs can be 60-70 bpm which goes halves into a house/garage beat at 120-140 bpm. BPM is only one facet of djing. You have the pace of a song to consider. If the hats are behind the snares it can give a lazy slow paced feel. If the hats are infront of the snares the pace quickens.
I could go on for ages as you can probably guess lol. What are the songs if you don't mind me asking.
Thanks for that - all very confusing for us mere mortals!
Actually I lied - the tracks are not all 1974. I put the list together a few weeks back and now I remember that there wasn't enough '74 to make a decent list, so it's '70s (I think one or two might click into 1980). It's a cheese-fest, no doubt about that, but that was the intention!
It will be an hour from this lot, in no particular order unless the speeds determine it:
Night Fever - Bee Gees 109
Ain't No Stoppin' Us Now - McFadden & Whitehead 112
Car Wash - Rose Royce 114
Joe Tex Aint gonna bump no more 113
Lost in Music - Sister Sledge 116
Take that to the bank - Shalamar 117
Good Times - Chic 117
Le Freak - Chic 118
Open Sesame - Kool & the gang 119
Relight my fire - Dan Hartman 120
It Only Takes A Minute - Tavares 121
Celebration - Kool & the Gang 121
You should be dancin - Bee Gees 123
Dance DANCE DANCE - Chic 123
Never Can Say Goodbye - Gloria Gaynor 126
I Feel Love - Donna Summer 128
Disco Inferno - Trammps 129
You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) - Sylvester 131
Contact - Edwin Starr 131
Born To Be Alive - Patrick Hernandez 131
We Are Family - Sister Sledge 130
Actually I lied - the tracks are not all 1974. I put the list together a few weeks back and now I remember that there wasn't enough '74 to make a decent list, so it's '70s (I think one or two might click into 1980). It's a cheese-fest, no doubt about that, but that was the intention!
It will be an hour from this lot, in no particular order unless the speeds determine it:
Night Fever - Bee Gees 109
Ain't No Stoppin' Us Now - McFadden & Whitehead 112
Car Wash - Rose Royce 114
Joe Tex Aint gonna bump no more 113
Lost in Music - Sister Sledge 116
Take that to the bank - Shalamar 117
Good Times - Chic 117
Le Freak - Chic 118
Open Sesame - Kool & the gang 119
Relight my fire - Dan Hartman 120
It Only Takes A Minute - Tavares 121
Celebration - Kool & the Gang 121
You should be dancin - Bee Gees 123
Dance DANCE DANCE - Chic 123
Never Can Say Goodbye - Gloria Gaynor 126
I Feel Love - Donna Summer 128
Disco Inferno - Trammps 129
You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) - Sylvester 131
Contact - Edwin Starr 131
Born To Be Alive - Patrick Hernandez 131
We Are Family - Sister Sledge 130
I'm not too hot on my Disco. My dad was more of a jazz funk man but looking at that list and the BPM's you could with a few changes get away with starting off at one BPM Say pitch the Bee Gees up to like 114 BPM and then mix in the next tune and slowly crank the next tune up a BPM or two to 116BPM rinse and repeat.
I'd possibly add in SOS Take Your Time Do It Right (119 BPM from memory) Maybe some Brother's Johnson, BT Express etc.
I'd possibly add in SOS Take Your Time Do It Right (119 BPM from memory) Maybe some Brother's Johnson, BT Express etc.
No disrespect to Miguel's advice intended but with that era of music I wouldn't bother beat mixing.
It's more about finding which tracks work next to each other, watching what the dancefloor is doing at the time and then making either a straight cut or a really short segue from one track to the next.
There's no point having a seamless blended mix all worked out if the records don't work from the point of view of the people dancing to them, a DJ's technical skill doesn't count for jack if he can't keep a crowd moving.
Also with those kind of tracks a lot of the intros will kill a dancefloor so try finding the meat of the track and just cutting right into and out of that.
For some inspiration listen to part 3 of the mix on the link below, nobody ever did disco better than Larry Levan and Larry didn't give a st about matching beats:
http://www.isodisco.com/larry-levan-live-from-para...
It's more about finding which tracks work next to each other, watching what the dancefloor is doing at the time and then making either a straight cut or a really short segue from one track to the next.
There's no point having a seamless blended mix all worked out if the records don't work from the point of view of the people dancing to them, a DJ's technical skill doesn't count for jack if he can't keep a crowd moving.
Also with those kind of tracks a lot of the intros will kill a dancefloor so try finding the meat of the track and just cutting right into and out of that.
For some inspiration listen to part 3 of the mix on the link below, nobody ever did disco better than Larry Levan and Larry didn't give a s
t about matching beats:http://www.isodisco.com/larry-levan-live-from-para...
As above...you cant beat mix everything, and not everything needs it- especially stuff that has no long intro.
For example, to play le freak, hit the cue button twice then the play button, so it stutters 'aaah' 'aaah' 'aaah, freak out' in time with the music, then kill the fader of the outgoing track at the same time. Works well if its in phrase, as there is no way of mixing that track in without a trainwreck, muddying the start and losing the impact.
DJ'ing is first and foremost about what is played and when.
For example, to play le freak, hit the cue button twice then the play button, so it stutters 'aaah' 'aaah' 'aaah, freak out' in time with the music, then kill the fader of the outgoing track at the same time. Works well if its in phrase, as there is no way of mixing that track in without a trainwreck, muddying the start and losing the impact.
DJ'ing is first and foremost about what is played and when.
I use Virtual DJ 7 as a mobile DJ and don't bother beat matching older music. I tend to let it fade a little and then start the other track.
When I am playing newer music, I tend to beat match tracks of about 120 to 130 bpm and use the beat markers at the top of the screen, especially on tracks which end abruptly and cueing up the next track at the start of the beat portion. I do agree with previous advice on adjusting the bpm a little. I tend to just move it a few beats but no more.
When I am playing newer music, I tend to beat match tracks of about 120 to 130 bpm and use the beat markers at the top of the screen, especially on tracks which end abruptly and cueing up the next track at the start of the beat portion. I do agree with previous advice on adjusting the bpm a little. I tend to just move it a few beats but no more.
HerrSchnell said:
No disrespect to Miguel's advice intended but with that era of music I wouldn't bother beat mixing.
It's more about finding which tracks work next to each other, watching what the dancefloor is doing at the time and then making either a straight cut or a really short segue from one track to the next.
There's no point having a seamless blended mix all worked out if the records don't work from the point of view of the people dancing to them, a DJ's technical skill doesn't count for jack if he can't keep a crowd moving.
Also with those kind of tracks a lot of the intros will kill a dancefloor so try finding the meat of the track and just cutting right into and out of that.
For some inspiration listen to part 3 of the mix on the link below, nobody ever did disco better than Larry Levan and Larry didn't give a st about matching beats:
http://www.isodisco.com/larry-levan-live-from-para...
No disrespect taken It's more about finding which tracks work next to each other, watching what the dancefloor is doing at the time and then making either a straight cut or a really short segue from one track to the next.
There's no point having a seamless blended mix all worked out if the records don't work from the point of view of the people dancing to them, a DJ's technical skill doesn't count for jack if he can't keep a crowd moving.
Also with those kind of tracks a lot of the intros will kill a dancefloor so try finding the meat of the track and just cutting right into and out of that.
For some inspiration listen to part 3 of the mix on the link below, nobody ever did disco better than Larry Levan and Larry didn't give a s
t about matching beats:http://www.isodisco.com/larry-levan-live-from-para...
It's hard to condense years and years of experience into a few paragraphs on a forum. I completely echo that its not always about mixing each and every tune. To be fair I'd prefer if a DJ just slammed a mix on time. Look at Tim Westwood. Hardly the last word in technical DJing but his timing is good, he knows his music and can rock a party like no one else. One of my pet hates is a DJ who mixes vocals over vocals or songs which clash musically. But that's me. I'm long past the days of planning mixes. In fact I did it once and it went horribly wrong and never done it since. I have songs that I tend to save till the club is full but I just go with the flow. If I was tackling that mix (bare in mind I don't know the songs) It would be a mix of (excuse the pun) of scratching and slamming the record in basically a nice quick scratch and then drop the new record in on beat and kill the old record. Just like someone mentioned Chic Le Freak. Some big intros. Rose Royce Car Wash. And some long blends Ain't no stopping us now. I tend to mix older records much like I imagine people like Kool Herc and Grandmaster Flash would. But then I'm a hip hop head and that's my musical leaning. A house DJ, Mobile DJ etc would all tackle it slightly differently.
All of the tracks on your list should get them on the floor and dancing - and that's what it's all about... We hadn't heard of "beat matching" when I used to run a mobile disco - thats what it was called back in the late 70's/early 80's 
I used to lug all the gear around in a Ford Capri, with a roofrack.... FAL twin turntable decks..... oil wheels.... bubble machine.... smoke machine... a sound-to-light unit that I made myself from a kit.... and old beer crates to carry about 1000 7" singles..... ahhhh those were the days.... Good Luck with your gig.
I used to lug all the gear around in a Ford Capri, with a roofrack.... FAL twin turntable decks..... oil wheels.... bubble machine.... smoke machine... a sound-to-light unit that I made myself from a kit.... and old beer crates to carry about 1000 7" singles..... ahhhh those were the days.... Good Luck with your gig.pilbeam_mp62 said:
All of the tracks on your list should get them on the floor and dancing - and that's what it's all about... We hadn't heard of "beat matching" when I used to run a mobile disco - thats what it was called back in the late 70's/early 80's I used to lug all the gear around in a Ford Capri, with a roofrack.... FAL twin turntable decks..... oil wheels.... bubble machine.... smoke machine... a sound-to-light unit that I made myself from a kit.... and old beer crates to carry about 1000 7" singles..... ahhhh those were the days.... Good Luck with your gig.
Not that I dj as much as I used to but one thing I don't miss is lugging all the f I used to lug all the gear around in a Ford Capri, with a roofrack.... FAL twin turntable decks..... oil wheels.... bubble machine.... smoke machine... a sound-to-light unit that I made myself from a kit.... and old beer crates to carry about 1000 7" singles..... ahhhh those were the days.... Good Luck with your gig.king kit about. 4/5 trips to the car and constantly being paranoid someone was going to break into the car everytime my back was turned. I did a gig in a club earlier in the year and turned up with a laptop, head phones, 2 records and my SL1 box and even then I was feeling like this is a hassle. StevieBee said:
You could cheat. Most DJ suppliers have selections of "DJ Only" CDS which feature pre-mixed music and there's plenty available online to download. It's a bit of a cop out but some of then are quite good.
Believe me, that, or turning up with a mix which I made even though it took me 3 weeks, is tempting! But there would be a certain sense of achievement in pulling it off. And then there's the "reading the crowd" bit too!Miguel Alvarez said:
No disrespect taken It's hard to condense years and years of experience into a few paragraphs on a forum. I completely echo that its not always about mixing each and every tune. To be fair I'd prefer if a DJ just slammed a mix on time. Look at Tim Westwood. Hardly the last word in technical DJing but his timing is good, he knows his music and can rock a party like no one else. One of my pet hates is a DJ who mixes vocals over vocals or songs which clash musically. But that's me.
I'm long past the days of planning mixes. In fact I did it once and it went horribly wrong and never done it since. I have songs that I tend to save till the club is full but I just go with the flow. If I was tackling that mix (bare in mind I don't know the songs) It would be a mix of (excuse the pun) of scratching and slamming the record in basically a nice quick scratch and then drop the new record in on beat and kill the old record. Just like someone mentioned Chic Le Freak. Some big intros. Rose Royce Car Wash. And some long blends Ain't no stopping us now. I tend to mix older records much like I imagine people like Kool Herc and Grandmaster Flash would. But then I'm a hip hop head and that's my musical leaning. A house DJ, Mobile DJ etc would all tackle it slightly differently.
Yup, key clashes and vocals over vocals make me want to harm the guy behind the decks. It's hard to condense years and years of experience into a few paragraphs on a forum. I completely echo that its not always about mixing each and every tune. To be fair I'd prefer if a DJ just slammed a mix on time. Look at Tim Westwood. Hardly the last word in technical DJing but his timing is good, he knows his music and can rock a party like no one else. One of my pet hates is a DJ who mixes vocals over vocals or songs which clash musically. But that's me. I'm long past the days of planning mixes. In fact I did it once and it went horribly wrong and never done it since. I have songs that I tend to save till the club is full but I just go with the flow. If I was tackling that mix (bare in mind I don't know the songs) It would be a mix of (excuse the pun) of scratching and slamming the record in basically a nice quick scratch and then drop the new record in on beat and kill the old record. Just like someone mentioned Chic Le Freak. Some big intros. Rose Royce Car Wash. And some long blends Ain't no stopping us now. I tend to mix older records much like I imagine people like Kool Herc and Grandmaster Flash would. But then I'm a hip hop head and that's my musical leaning. A house DJ, Mobile DJ etc would all tackle it slightly differently.
Beat clash or pitch bending are tolerable but the cacophony that two records that just don't go running into one another makes is almost physically painful.
I'm guilty of planning perfect sets with really smartarse mixes in the past too and of getting wound up by the ignorant crowds who didn't appreciate what I'd just done, it's all a part of being a DJ I suppose.
It was only when I realised that the guys I was trying to play like had been through that part and were doing those mixes by instinct that I started to enjoy it again and actually got a lot of people moving again, rather than just the other frustrated Louie Vega's in the room who wanted to show that they knew the records before anyone else did.
Basically OP, f
k it. Have fun with it, if it sounds like an elephant falling down the stairs kill the bass on the track you're coming out of or just whack the fader over. Nobody will care.Unless you play one lot of singing before the other lot has finished, obviously...
And also for both the OP and Miguel, I'll just leave this here..
http://www.electrofunkroots.co.uk/category/mixes-c...
http://www.electrofunkroots.co.uk/category/mixes-c...
I wouldn't be too worried. A lot of people in dance music aren't great at mixing. Goldie for instance but he knows wicked tunes.
When I started off doing small parties I was just doing basic blends via intro, outro and breakdowns and I'd be playing an ecletic set: downtempo, hip hop to techno and jungle.
When I started off doing small parties I was just doing basic blends via intro, outro and breakdowns and I'd be playing an ecletic set: downtempo, hip hop to techno and jungle.
It should be possible, I used to do a very similar set standing in for someone at a local club.
A lot of those will have a very short, sharp intro, where you can just fire something up at the start, unlike more modern dance music that tends to have a slow build up specifically for beatmatching.
A lot of those will have a very short, sharp intro, where you can just fire something up at the start, unlike more modern dance music that tends to have a slow build up specifically for beatmatching.
HerrSchnell said:
Basically OP, fk it. Have fun with it, if it sounds like an elephant falling down the stairs kill the bass on the track you're coming out of or just whack the fader over. Nobody will care.
Unless you play one lot of singing before the other lot has finished, obviously...
Mixing is a bit like ripping a plaster off at time. If it hurts your ears then just yank the fk it. Have fun with it, if it sounds like an elephant falling down the stairs kill the bass on the track you're coming out of or just whack the fader over. Nobody will care.Unless you play one lot of singing before the other lot has finished, obviously...
ker off and be done with it. Nursing a bad mix for ages is very very wrong IMHO. The other thing is apart from your dj mate the only other person who knows you made a mistake is you. The amount of times people have been impressed with a scratch (as a result of a sneeze or something stupid) is unbelievable.
My only other advice is if it all goes completely wrong and your last life line is the mic DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT mention "apologies for the technical difficulties". A simple "I'd like to take this moment to ask you all to wish ###### ##### a happy birthday" sounds much better or crack a joke.
And remember. YOU ARE IN CHARGE!!!
http://youtu.be/4GuGRxRcTMw
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