Rip off Britain?!
Discussion
So I'm looking for a tidy ORIGINAL G50 3.2 Carrera.
All I see for sale in the UK are restored machines which are in my opinion very overpriced for what they are.
As in everything, originality is lord.
Now if I lived in the States I could go and buy a mindblowing G50 for a sensible price.
This for £22.9k Utterly off the scale cherished and babied.
http://www.pedigreemotorcars.com/view/P221/Silver-...
Or this for £39750k which is frankly staggering in its audacity
It has had to have everything done.
http://graemehunt.com/motorcar/219/1987-porsche-91...
I'm voting with my wallet. As in keeping it VERY closed!
Footnote.
Same goes for 60's E Types, Astons etc etc
Oh well.
All I see for sale in the UK are restored machines which are in my opinion very overpriced for what they are.
As in everything, originality is lord.
Now if I lived in the States I could go and buy a mindblowing G50 for a sensible price.
This for £22.9k Utterly off the scale cherished and babied.
http://www.pedigreemotorcars.com/view/P221/Silver-...
Or this for £39750k which is frankly staggering in its audacity
It has had to have everything done.
http://graemehunt.com/motorcar/219/1987-porsche-91...
I'm voting with my wallet. As in keeping it VERY closed!
Footnote.
Same goes for 60's E Types, Astons etc etc
Oh well.
In general terms, I don't think it's "rip off Britain" - cars have (I stress, in general terms) always been cheaper in the USA, and conversely, if you go to the continent, cars 9and bikes) are often a lot dearer. I guess the market just tracks whatever the local economies will support.
P50 said:
......
All I see for sale in the UK are restored machines which are in my opinion very overpriced for what they are.
.......
I'm voting with my wallet. As in keeping it VERY closed!
Footnote.
Same goes for 60's E Types ......
Never deduce from overinflated asking prices the actual value!All I see for sale in the UK are restored machines which are in my opinion very overpriced for what they are.
.......
I'm voting with my wallet. As in keeping it VERY closed!
Footnote.
Same goes for 60's E Types ......
For example: this car has been up for £85K. http://www.winspeedmotorsport.com/sales/?id=97
Nobody bit at that kind of money and yesterday the very same car
was sold in auction at Bonham's - It made £46K plus premium
.Change your thread heading to 'Attempted Rip off Britain'
.Good luck finding an original G50 in the UK! They are so prone to rust that our salty roads have got most of them to some degree (often hidden) - and then there is the need for a rebuild. Youngest rebuild I have seen was done at 45,000 miles due to the soft valve guides Porsche used in 87/88.
PS Best car on the market recently was the black 60,000 mile one at Silver Arrows. I missed it earlier in the year at 26k - the dealer who bought it has just sold it for circa £34k. In superb original condition - but had already needed a top end rebuild. Caveat emptor.
PS Best car on the market recently was the black 60,000 mile one at Silver Arrows. I missed it earlier in the year at 26k - the dealer who bought it has just sold it for circa £34k. In superb original condition - but had already needed a top end rebuild. Caveat emptor.
Edited by drmark on Tuesday 10th December 15:25
Edited by drmark on Tuesday 10th December 15:25
P50 said:
Or this for £39750k which is frankly staggering in its audacity
It has had to have everything done.
Most do need everything doing! And buying one that someone else has spent fortune on often makes economic sense in the longer term. The car above is up at 20k less than the owner has spent fettling it.It has had to have everything done.
P50 said:
I'm voting with my wallet. As in keeping it VERY closed!
Footnote.
Same goes for 60's E Types, Astons etc etc
Oh well.
Something is worth what people are prepared to pay for it. If you are only prepared to pay $X for a car yet others are prepared to pay $2X then obviously the seller is going to want to get paid $2X, this isn't a rip-off, this is common sense.Footnote.
Same goes for 60's E Types, Astons etc etc
Oh well.
The values of cars like classic Aston's are going up and up because there are more people in the world who want to own them than there are cars to own. So the values go up. It doesn't matter whether this is in Britain the US or anywhere else on the planet, that's how the world works. On the other hand values of newer ones, isn't rising, presumably because there isn't a shortage of them.
I'd love to buy a XK140DHC, but their value has shot up recently, so I can't. Tough luck on me, I can't complain that someone selling one wants to be paid more that I've got to spend, otherwise I'd have a D-Type and insist that rather than paying the millions it would cost me, I should be allowed to buy one from what I chose to pay.
a8hex said:
Something is worth what people are prepared to pay for it. If you are only prepared to pay $X for a car yet others are prepared to pay $2X then obviously the seller is going to want to get paid $2X, this isn't a rip-off, this is common sense.
The values of cars like classic Aston's are going up and up because there are more people in the world who want to own them than there are cars to own. So the values go up. It doesn't matter whether this is in Britain the US or anywhere else on the planet, that's how the world works. On the other hand values of newer ones, isn't rising, presumably because there isn't a shortage of them.
I'd love to buy a XK140DHC, but their value has shot up recently, so I can't. Tough luck on me, I can't complain that someone selling one wants to be paid more that I've got to spend, otherwise I'd have a D-Type and insist that rather than paying the millions it would cost me, I should be allowed to buy one from what I chose to pay.
My argument is not of values rising.The values of cars like classic Aston's are going up and up because there are more people in the world who want to own them than there are cars to own. So the values go up. It doesn't matter whether this is in Britain the US or anywhere else on the planet, that's how the world works. On the other hand values of newer ones, isn't rising, presumably because there isn't a shortage of them.
I'd love to buy a XK140DHC, but their value has shot up recently, so I can't. Tough luck on me, I can't complain that someone selling one wants to be paid more that I've got to spend, otherwise I'd have a D-Type and insist that rather than paying the millions it would cost me, I should be allowed to buy one from what I chose to pay.
Mine is dealers restoring cars and asking far in excess of an original machine. A re-trimmed interior means the original has worn out. A rebuilt engine and box means the original has worn out. A full body rebuild and paint means…… You will always get misinformed types who like shiny paint and the “reassurance” of a resto. Me? I prefer a machine that’s never got to the point where it’s needed a comprehensive going over.
Put it this way, We have two D types. One’s freakishly original on its factory paint, trim and un opened motor.
The other loads of owners and fully restored. That’s not a problem at all.
Dealer A wants £4m cracking for his D. However Dealer B wants £8m as it’s been “fully” restored.
To compound the situation we seem to be having a classic car bubble much like the housing bubble in central London. Will it all implode in tears? I know not.
P50 said:
My argument is not of values rising.
Mine is dealers restoring cars and asking far in excess of an original machine. A re-trimmed interior means the original has worn out. A rebuilt engine and box means the original has worn out. A full body rebuild and paint means…… You will always get misinformed types who like shiny paint and the “reassurance” of a resto. Me? I prefer a machine that’s never got to the point where it’s needed a comprehensive going over.
Put it this way, We have two D types. One’s freakishly original on its factory paint, trim and un opened motor.
The other loads of owners and fully restored. That’s not a problem at all.
Dealer A wants £4m cracking for his D. However Dealer B wants £8m as it’s been “fully” restored.
To compound the situation we seem to be having a classic car bubble much like the housing bubble in central London. Will it all implode in tears? I know not.
I don't get your example as it does not relect the market (if so, buy the original one, spend 250k fettling and sell for a huge profit).Mine is dealers restoring cars and asking far in excess of an original machine. A re-trimmed interior means the original has worn out. A rebuilt engine and box means the original has worn out. A full body rebuild and paint means…… You will always get misinformed types who like shiny paint and the “reassurance” of a resto. Me? I prefer a machine that’s never got to the point where it’s needed a comprehensive going over.
Put it this way, We have two D types. One’s freakishly original on its factory paint, trim and un opened motor.
The other loads of owners and fully restored. That’s not a problem at all.
Dealer A wants £4m cracking for his D. However Dealer B wants £8m as it’s been “fully” restored.
To compound the situation we seem to be having a classic car bubble much like the housing bubble in central London. Will it all implode in tears? I know not.
Top grade original cars are always worth more than 100 point restorations, but few are truly top grade so the best restorations tend to fetch more, but nothing like the margin you are suggesting.
P50 said:
dealers restoring cars and asking far in excess of an original machine.
Restoring a car can be expensive. Try paying for it yourself and see what it costs 
Its even worse when dealers buy a car in at one price and then immediately add 20% and re-market it without there being the time in the middle for the "restoring". And I'm not meaning buying from a punter and needing to cover their business, I've seen it with dealer A buys the car for very reputable dealer B and still adds on that kind of chunk.
a8hex said:
Restoring a car can be expensive. Try paying for it yourself and see what it costs
Its even worse when dealers buy a car in at one price and then immediately add 20% and re-market it without there being the time in the middle for the "restoring". And I'm not meaning buying from a punter and needing to cover their business, I've seen it with dealer A buys the car for very reputable dealer B and still adds on that kind of chunk.
So dealer A thinks that Dealer B doesn't know his market very well and puts his money where his mouth is. If he's right it's a nice earner. Call it wrong and it's a waste of time, effort and perhaps money. Risk and reward - the essence of capitalism.Its even worse when dealers buy a car in at one price and then immediately add 20% and re-market it without there being the time in the middle for the "restoring". And I'm not meaning buying from a punter and needing to cover their business, I've seen it with dealer A buys the car for very reputable dealer B and still adds on that kind of chunk.
This is all way out of my price range, BUT I can comment from the restorer's point of view:
To restore these cars PROPERLY does cost WAY in excess of what they cost new for rather obvious reasons!
The problem is, there are a huge number of badly restored ones around, which traders then try to charge proper restoration prices for.
Properly restored ones rarely if ever come up for general sale, and almost never through traders, as they find buyers within clubs, friends etc who know the car
Re. the "bubble" I think your concerns are correct. Lots of people without enough knowledge buying cars as investments, judging "value" by comparison with other "similar" cars for sale, when in many cases "similar" means infinitely worse than"
To restore these cars PROPERLY does cost WAY in excess of what they cost new for rather obvious reasons!
The problem is, there are a huge number of badly restored ones around, which traders then try to charge proper restoration prices for.
Properly restored ones rarely if ever come up for general sale, and almost never through traders, as they find buyers within clubs, friends etc who know the car
Re. the "bubble" I think your concerns are correct. Lots of people without enough knowledge buying cars as investments, judging "value" by comparison with other "similar" cars for sale, when in many cases "similar" means infinitely worse than"
I am a trader and have exported cars all over the world. Last year I sent cars to Estonia, France, Nigeria, South Africa and even as far as Thailand and Singapore. The reason being, that cars are infinitely cheaper to buy here.
England genuinely is the cheapest place on the planet for used cars. The only reason that those particular cars are more expensive here is that they are specialist and, relatively speaking, very few were sold here when you compare it to the states where you are looking at a country that had ten times the numbers of cars exported/sold there. Because there are many more to choose from it keeps prices of those "rare" models low.
To give you an idea of just how good we get it here the last car that I recently exported, and not what you'd call particularly special, was an E36 BMW M3 Evolution. The buyer came all the way from Thailand to buy the car and exported it back there. I asked him why on earth he was travelling half way round the planet to buy an elderly £5k BMW and he explained that the equivalent car there would cost in excess of £12-15k and I have had a similar story with every other car I've punted abroad.
England genuinely is the cheapest place on the planet for used cars. The only reason that those particular cars are more expensive here is that they are specialist and, relatively speaking, very few were sold here when you compare it to the states where you are looking at a country that had ten times the numbers of cars exported/sold there. Because there are many more to choose from it keeps prices of those "rare" models low.
To give you an idea of just how good we get it here the last car that I recently exported, and not what you'd call particularly special, was an E36 BMW M3 Evolution. The buyer came all the way from Thailand to buy the car and exported it back there. I asked him why on earth he was travelling half way round the planet to buy an elderly £5k BMW and he explained that the equivalent car there would cost in excess of £12-15k and I have had a similar story with every other car I've punted abroad.
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