Your 5 pence worth please
Discussion
If you don’t mind and if you have a moment would you please give me your 5pence worth on the following:-
I have been working on the Tuscan, done the valve clearances (5 a touch tight but only by .5), balanced the throttles, changed the throttle pots (reset the ECU and adaptive maps, etc…), temp sensors (both) and it runs beautifully. I have fitted one of the rocker cover gaskets too, now that was a job and a half to get right, but once sussed it’s easy enough. Oh and I’ve changed the engine mountings so that in combination with the rocker gasket, it now sounds quite when driving.
However, and this is the point where I might cry…
Two issues that may or may not be related.
1/ I notice that on the top of the dip stick there is slight oil emulsification, just a light hazing. The oil in the tank is totally clean, so I assumed this was due to heating and cooling as I’ve been doing lots of short runs in the cold, hence getting condensation from the cold air in the breather. I know some engines (some of my ex-higher performance bikes) used to do this and needed a good long run to dry the condensation out. Note, I have had the rocker cover off three times now and there is no emulsification there, it’s totally clear but then there is no breather there!
2/ I’m losing water, not a vast amount and I can’t find the leak, and the water is totally clean, I have no steam from the exhausts, I do suspect it’s the pressure cap, so one is on order. The temperature is well behaved and stable and the fans kick in and out (when running stationary to get it hot to check). Note, when topped up it will blow the excess out the cap and this is the only place and time that I ever see the car losing water.
So nothing to worry about, however, I read on PistonHeads that the above is synonymous with head gasket failure on the SP6 engine. Any other car I would have said it was fine and keep an eye on it but these, as I’m very quickly learning are expensive beasties when they go wrong and they like going wrong. So what are your thoughts, leave it, fit the new rad cap (try and get all the air locks out, if that’s what’s causing the water loss) and see how we go, or pull the top off and have a look? Or how good are the chemical tests that you can get to see if there is head gasket leak? I have had one before on an old 944 which returned negative yet the head had a bloody great big crack in it! Now that was 15 years plus ago, so do I assume they are better now?
I have been working on the Tuscan, done the valve clearances (5 a touch tight but only by .5), balanced the throttles, changed the throttle pots (reset the ECU and adaptive maps, etc…), temp sensors (both) and it runs beautifully. I have fitted one of the rocker cover gaskets too, now that was a job and a half to get right, but once sussed it’s easy enough. Oh and I’ve changed the engine mountings so that in combination with the rocker gasket, it now sounds quite when driving.
However, and this is the point where I might cry…
Two issues that may or may not be related.
1/ I notice that on the top of the dip stick there is slight oil emulsification, just a light hazing. The oil in the tank is totally clean, so I assumed this was due to heating and cooling as I’ve been doing lots of short runs in the cold, hence getting condensation from the cold air in the breather. I know some engines (some of my ex-higher performance bikes) used to do this and needed a good long run to dry the condensation out. Note, I have had the rocker cover off three times now and there is no emulsification there, it’s totally clear but then there is no breather there!
2/ I’m losing water, not a vast amount and I can’t find the leak, and the water is totally clean, I have no steam from the exhausts, I do suspect it’s the pressure cap, so one is on order. The temperature is well behaved and stable and the fans kick in and out (when running stationary to get it hot to check). Note, when topped up it will blow the excess out the cap and this is the only place and time that I ever see the car losing water.
So nothing to worry about, however, I read on PistonHeads that the above is synonymous with head gasket failure on the SP6 engine. Any other car I would have said it was fine and keep an eye on it but these, as I’m very quickly learning are expensive beasties when they go wrong and they like going wrong. So what are your thoughts, leave it, fit the new rad cap (try and get all the air locks out, if that’s what’s causing the water loss) and see how we go, or pull the top off and have a look? Or how good are the chemical tests that you can get to see if there is head gasket leak? I have had one before on an old 944 which returned negative yet the head had a bloody great big crack in it! Now that was 15 years plus ago, so do I assume they are better now?
I'd agree that if you've had the cam cover off and there is no evidence of mousse at the top of engine AND the oil is clean and golden, then I would say it is the combination of short runs and colder weather that's giving you a bit of emulsion.
Yes, the pressure caps do fail, ensure you get a genuine VAG part - pattern items are cr**p. Look at the parts WIKI for the number and go to your local VW/Seat/Audi dealer and get one - they are from a GOLF Mk.2.
Nick
Yes, the pressure caps do fail, ensure you get a genuine VAG part - pattern items are cr**p. Look at the parts WIKI for the number and go to your local VW/Seat/Audi dealer and get one - they are from a GOLF Mk.2.
Nick
If you can, try and collect a sample of this "emulsified" oil. If it is at the top of dipstick there is a good chance it is an aerated oil rather than water. I say this as any water in your oil will separate out and sink to the bottom of the tank (eventually). If you can collect a teaspoon size sample (maybe a siphon of the very top layer of oil in the tank) heat the teaspoon of oil from underneath with a hot air gun/gas torch. If its water it will crackle. if its air it won't and will actually clear up and look normal. (the heat allows the air to escape.) Try not to set fire to the oil while heating...
Emulsified oil and aerated oil do look very similar.
Emulsified oil and aerated oil do look very similar.
Are you loosing water bcause you're overfilling?
If left to it's own devices, it will settle to a level where no water will need to be added - If, that is, you don't have a leak somewhere??
My Speed six is in a Tamora and has the additional water reservoir with a sight glass, so as above, it does push-out an overfilled reservoir when I carelessly overfill by an inch!!
HTHs
T
If left to it's own devices, it will settle to a level where no water will need to be added - If, that is, you don't have a leak somewhere??
My Speed six is in a Tamora and has the additional water reservoir with a sight glass, so as above, it does push-out an overfilled reservoir when I carelessly overfill by an inch!!
HTHs
T
Swiss Roll said:
If you can, try and collect a sample of this "emulsified" oil. If it is at the top of dipstick there is a good chance it is an aerated oil rather than water. I say this as any water in your oil will separate out and sink to the bottom of the tank (eventually). If you can collect a teaspoon size sample (maybe a siphon of the very top layer of oil in the tank) heat the teaspoon of oil from underneath with a hot air gun/gas torch. If its water it will crackle. if its air it won't and will actually clear up and look normal. (the heat allows the air to escape.) Try not to set fire to the oil while heating...
Emulsified oil and aerated oil do look very similar.
I'll see if I can give that a go, but the tank oil is clear, its only a film at the top of the dip stick so theres little chance of getting a spoon full, I could try removing the breather pipe and having a go and see what I get there.Emulsified oil and aerated oil do look very similar.
K4TRV said:
Are you loosing water bcause you're overfilling?
If left to it's own devices, it will settle to a level where no water will need to be added - If, that is, you don't have a leak somewhere??
My Speed six is in a Tamora and has the additional water reservoir with a sight glass, so as above, it does push-out an overfilled reservoir when I carelessly overfill by an inch!!
HTHs
T
I'll keep an eye on it, but its always is shy of the elbow and takes say a pint. I only initially noticed when my heater was cold until the thermostat opened. And then only notice as the weather turned cold. It really would have helped if TVR had fitted a sight glass or a level sensor, I reckon I may fit a level sensor to the tank if all’s well If left to it's own devices, it will settle to a level where no water will need to be added - If, that is, you don't have a leak somewhere??
My Speed six is in a Tamora and has the additional water reservoir with a sight glass, so as above, it does push-out an overfilled reservoir when I carelessly overfill by an inch!!
HTHs
T
OK, maybe panic over, just done a motorway drive, followed by an A road and round town run in heavy traffic. Temp stable, even in stop start traffic no temps over 92. Oil got nice and hot (in to the 80's) and on inspection is clear golden. What I do notice is in the top of the tank neck is very small specks/droplets of water. So I can only assume is condensation (I really really hope), I'll keep an eye on this and post if there is anything of help/use. However, any thoughts more than welcome. And water loss still to crack. The run was for an hour and the bottom of the elbow was wet, to bring it above took a couple of mls, so fingers crossed for the filler cap.
This time of year with low damp temperatures it could just be a little condensation, if you have been doing short start ups after your work if your not losing water I would not panic to much.
My chim and Cerb did this,inside the oil cap I some times find it if running it up after doing jobs knowing the 6 it will more than likely be the same.
My chim and Cerb did this,inside the oil cap I some times find it if running it up after doing jobs knowing the 6 it will more than likely be the same.
Edited by scotty_d on Tuesday 3rd December 21:19
sprange67 said:
OK, maybe panic over, just done a motorway drive, followed by an A road and round town run in heavy traffic. Temp stable, even in stop start traffic no temps over 92. Oil got nice and hot (in to the 80's) and on inspection is clear golden. What I do notice is in the top of the tank neck is very small specks/droplets of water. So I can only assume is condensation (I really really hope), I'll keep an eye on this and post if there is anything of help/use. However, any thoughts more than welcome. And water loss still to crack. The run was for an hour and the bottom of the elbow was wet, to bring it above took a couple of mls, so fingers crossed for the filler cap.
Good news! I tend to get evidence of condensation too this time of year - had me worried the last 2 winters.Whatever anyone says, the Speed 6 is not the fragile kit that everyone says it is. My reference to pattern pressure caps in my last post was because in 2010 @ Le Mans Classic my cap failed whilst at the Mulsanne parking area on Friday for qually. Luckily, a mate had some water. Watched a bit of the racing, let the car cool down, and put at least 5 litres of water in the system. Drove slowly back to the campsite, got more water and filled and bled coolant system. My mate allowed me to use his (GENUINE)pressure cap for the parade laps and engine hadn't suffered any damage. In fact, went on for a holiday in France for 2 weeks without any further issues. I got a genuine cap in Le Mans on the Monday from a SEAT dealership. ^^All this just to put your mind at rest!!
Your water loss could be external - rad', hoses, and also check the heater matrix (mine leaked). Lots of folks on here talk of finding a leak only when the engine is running and hot and they see a fine jet from the hoses or radiator end covers etc, which, dries out on contact with a hot surface or is so fine that it does not leave a puddle under the car.
Nick
I used my Tuscan as a daily driver, around 30 miles each day, more if I went out at night or at the weekend. Water level used to be different every time I checked once or twice a week.
At first, I was paranoid and topped it up, in traffic when hot it would just spit it out and find its own level. From what your describing, I wouldn't worry in the slightest and after the work you have done, sounds like its running well.
Don't worry, check it once a week and enjoy it!
At first, I was paranoid and topped it up, in traffic when hot it would just spit it out and find its own level. From what your describing, I wouldn't worry in the slightest and after the work you have done, sounds like its running well.
Don't worry, check it once a week and enjoy it!
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