Cap on pay rise between grades, are they trying it on?
Discussion
After a bit of advice - to check if work are trying it on, I've been offered a new job that I'd like to take, but cutting a long story short it would involve a significant pay cut due to losing my shift premium.
The grade is the next one up from mine now, but they have said they can only increase my basic pay by 10% as that's the hr policy. I've managed to find out the range of this grade (£20k) and their offer puts me at the very bottom of it.
For various reasons I'm going to massively rock the boat at work taking this job - do I have a leg to stand on trying to wangle more than the 10% rise (so losing the shift premium isn't so painfull) or is it just standard practice in big companies and I need to put up with it?
The grade is the next one up from mine now, but they have said they can only increase my basic pay by 10% as that's the hr policy. I've managed to find out the range of this grade (£20k) and their offer puts me at the very bottom of it.
For various reasons I'm going to massively rock the boat at work taking this job - do I have a leg to stand on trying to wangle more than the 10% rise (so losing the shift premium isn't so painfull) or is it just standard practice in big companies and I need to put up with it?
Try asking, you could try and refuse the role saying the responsibility may not be worth the recompense, but don't burn your bridges when the development opportunity may be woth much more in the long run.
There may be some discretion that can be applied by your local
Managers, However I was stung by this a couple of times at my last place, and the 10% rule was quoted to me too.
I did get some reward come annual pay rise and bonus time, but not enough to keep me, and so partly as a result of this I've moved to an equivalent job in another company who offered me around about 20% extra. The general, and sad rule in some companies is if you want a decent payrise, and are worthy of one (i.e. you can't be too bad if you are getting promoted, right?) then you need to find it elsewhere.
Interestingly on my recent job hunt, employers and agencies were paying close attention to my current salary, and a couple said they wouldn't pay me my asking price as it was too much an uplift, even though the job was advertised at a certain rate. Problem was I wanted to be honest, as certainly in the sector I was targeting, dishonesty at he outset discoverd later, would not be taken lighty.
There may be some discretion that can be applied by your local
Managers, However I was stung by this a couple of times at my last place, and the 10% rule was quoted to me too.
I did get some reward come annual pay rise and bonus time, but not enough to keep me, and so partly as a result of this I've moved to an equivalent job in another company who offered me around about 20% extra. The general, and sad rule in some companies is if you want a decent payrise, and are worthy of one (i.e. you can't be too bad if you are getting promoted, right?) then you need to find it elsewhere.
Interestingly on my recent job hunt, employers and agencies were paying close attention to my current salary, and a couple said they wouldn't pay me my asking price as it was too much an uplift, even though the job was advertised at a certain rate. Problem was I wanted to be honest, as certainly in the sector I was targeting, dishonesty at he outset discoverd later, would not be taken lighty.
prand said:
Try asking, you could try and refuse the role saying the responsibility may not be worth the recompense, but don't burn your bridges when the development opportunity may be woth much more in the long run.
There may be some discretion that can be applied by your local
Managers, However I was stung by this a couple of times at my last place, and the 10% rule was quoted to me too.
I did get some reward come annual pay rise and bonus time, but not enough to keep me, and so partly as a result of this I've moved to an equivalent job in another company who offered me around about 20% extra. The general, and sad rule in some companies is if you want a decent payrise, and are worthy of one (i.e. you can't be too bad if you are getting promoted, right?) then you need to find it elsewhere.
Interestingly on my recent job hunt, employers and agencies were paying close attention to my current salary, and a couple said they wouldn't pay me my asking price as it was too much an uplift, even though the job was advertised at a certain rate. Problem was I wanted to be honest, as certainly in the sector I was targeting, dishonesty at he outset discoverd later, would not be taken lighty.
Sounds very pragmatic, thanks. I'll have a chat with the hiring manager.There may be some discretion that can be applied by your local
Managers, However I was stung by this a couple of times at my last place, and the 10% rule was quoted to me too.
I did get some reward come annual pay rise and bonus time, but not enough to keep me, and so partly as a result of this I've moved to an equivalent job in another company who offered me around about 20% extra. The general, and sad rule in some companies is if you want a decent payrise, and are worthy of one (i.e. you can't be too bad if you are getting promoted, right?) then you need to find it elsewhere.
Interestingly on my recent job hunt, employers and agencies were paying close attention to my current salary, and a couple said they wouldn't pay me my asking price as it was too much an uplift, even though the job was advertised at a certain rate. Problem was I wanted to be honest, as certainly in the sector I was targeting, dishonesty at he outset discoverd later, would not be taken lighty.
Fastpedeller said:
Pretty much standard from my experience. 
Standard from crappy HR functions with no understanding, and a great way to lose staff as they end up very unpaid vs the market if they stay with the company. I despair of the corporate functions of many businesses, whether it's this type of HR behaviour or finance playing silly buggers with expenses, IT functions that can't function etc, etc
Always worth being honest with the company and state ideally what you would like (in a tactful and well thought out way).
I recently got a pay rise of approximately 20%. Initially a pay-rise was agreed (no discussions of figures), job spec was updated and agreed in principle and then I asked what was the outcome if I wasn't happy with the proposed pay and they said they would be happy to discuss it if this was the case and that they would compare with market rates, etc.
Generally from my experience for the right people they can make exceptions but there is a fine line between asking for what you want and possibly being a nuisance so as others have said it may be the best option just to be patient...... Your call and you will be best placed to judge the situation.
Good luck either way
I recently got a pay rise of approximately 20%. Initially a pay-rise was agreed (no discussions of figures), job spec was updated and agreed in principle and then I asked what was the outcome if I wasn't happy with the proposed pay and they said they would be happy to discuss it if this was the case and that they would compare with market rates, etc.
Generally from my experience for the right people they can make exceptions but there is a fine line between asking for what you want and possibly being a nuisance so as others have said it may be the best option just to be patient...... Your call and you will be best placed to judge the situation.
Good luck either way
Always worth being honest with the company and state ideally what you would like (in a tactful and well thought out way).
I recently got a pay rise of approximately 20%. Initially a pay-rise was agreed (no discussions of figures), job spec was updated and agreed in principle and then I asked what was the outcome if I wasn't happy with the proposed pay and they said they would be happy to discuss it if this was the case and that they would compare with market rates, etc.
Generally from my experience for the right people they can make exceptions but there is a fine line between asking for what you want and possibly being a nuisance so as others have said it may be the best option just to be patient...... Your call and you will be best placed to judge the situation.
Good luck either way
I recently got a pay rise of approximately 20%. Initially a pay-rise was agreed (no discussions of figures), job spec was updated and agreed in principle and then I asked what was the outcome if I wasn't happy with the proposed pay and they said they would be happy to discuss it if this was the case and that they would compare with market rates, etc.
Generally from my experience for the right people they can make exceptions but there is a fine line between asking for what you want and possibly being a nuisance so as others have said it may be the best option just to be patient...... Your call and you will be best placed to judge the situation.
Good luck either way
wsurfa said:
Standard from crappy HR functions with no understanding, and a great way to lose staff as they end up very unpaid vs the market if they stay with the company.
I despair of the corporate functions of many businesses, whether it's this type of HR behaviour or finance playing silly buggers with expenses, IT functions that can't function etc, etc
Ha; I work for a GMN and we have the 10% rule as a guide. It isn't HR or F&A or anyone else that sets this, it's the Business leaders, the regional and hemisphere VPs and division VPs who like to keep a tight grip on expenditure. It's an utter pain in our arse when it comes to trying to retain people. I despair of the corporate functions of many businesses, whether it's this type of HR behaviour or finance playing silly buggers with expenses, IT functions that can't function etc, etc
parabolica said:
Ha; I work for a GMN and we have the 10% rule as a guide. It isn't HR or F&A or anyone else that sets this, it's the Business leaders, the regional and hemisphere VPs and division VPs who like to keep a tight grip on expenditure. It's an utter pain in our arse when it comes to trying to retain people.
Which is an example of a weak HR team.If they said Promo budget is 1% on the assumption of c 10% are promoted and they get on average 10% - fine. As the implementation is then a local issue and managed within that.
If it's a 'everyone gets 10%', then that is a crappy HR dept with no understanding and/or no ability to create understanding. Being part of a multinational does not make you immune to crappy HR, many might say it makes you more likely to suffer from it...
not unknown in the NHS either - where prtomotion leads to a higher basic but the rules over rotas means fewer USH
the HR people don;t see variable allowances as part of pay - probably becasue they don;t get them - where it can be a significant and regular part of the pay packet for those in 'operational grades'
the HR people don;t see variable allowances as part of pay - probably becasue they don;t get them - where it can be a significant and regular part of the pay packet for those in 'operational grades'
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