finance terminology
finance terminology
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HandsomeBob

Original Poster:

312 posts

192 months

Monday 18th November 2013
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Hi all,

Is there a banking/finance term for when you sell out shares in a poor market to purchase shares in a better market?

Thanks

fandango_c

1,993 posts

216 months

Monday 18th November 2013
quotequote all
HandsomeBob said:
Hi all,

Is there a banking/finance term for when you sell out shares in a poor market to purchase shares in a better market?

Thanks
Do you mean sell some shares and buy them back later at a higher price? confused

HandsomeBob

Original Poster:

312 posts

192 months

Monday 18th November 2013
quotequote all
for example sell shares in a bad market such as oil to buy shares in gold (the good market)


jeff m2

2,060 posts

181 months

Monday 18th November 2013
quotequote all
Well Bob (pronounced as only Blackadder can)

Listed shares would be two transactions a sell and a buy.
With Mutual Funds within the same family you would call and ask to "switch" eg all my shares in your oil fund to your gold fund.

PS you may want to hold off on selling oil as we haven't yet got into the winter heating period.
Could be a severe winter and result in lower reserves.

HandsomeBob

Original Poster:

312 posts

192 months

Monday 18th November 2013
quotequote all
jeff m2 said:
Well Bob (pronounced as only Blackadder can)

Listed shares would be two transactions a sell and a buy.
With Mutual Funds within the same family you would call and ask to "switch" eg all my shares in your oil fund to your gold fund.

PS you may want to hold off on selling oil as we haven't yet got into the winter heating period.
Could be a severe winter and result in lower reserves.
haha, thank you.

walm

10,644 posts

232 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
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HandsomeBob said:
for example sell shares in a bad market such as oil to buy shares in gold (the good market)
"Rotation"?
(Or in your case presumably "chasing momentum"...)

Also note that your use of the terms "good" and "bad" have no objective meaning.

CaptainSensib1e

1,528 posts

251 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
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Sounds to me like a classic case of selling low and buying high. You really want to try and get it the other way around!

HootersGsy

738 posts

166 months

Tuesday 19th November 2013
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I thought we were going to be talking about market arbitrage until I read the example. Ho hum.

AJS-

15,366 posts

266 months

Wednesday 20th November 2013
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"Retrenching" would sound good.

Lardydah

356 posts

235 months

Wednesday 20th November 2013
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Reallocating capital?

jfbrin

415 posts

202 months

Wednesday 20th November 2013
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"Tactical reinvestment?"
"Tactical asset reallocation/repositioning"

marky1

1,094 posts

226 months

Thursday 21st November 2013
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Portfolio Management

HandsomeBob

Original Poster:

312 posts

192 months

Thursday 21st November 2013
quotequote all
AJS- said:
"Retrenching" would sound good.
This is perfect, thank you!


Cheib

25,434 posts

205 months

Thursday 21st November 2013
quotequote all
HandsomeBob said:
for example sell shares in a bad market such as oil to buy shares in gold (the good market)
Flight to quality I think would be the market behaviour that sums that up best.

Typical behaviour in times of market stress or uncertainty is selling riskier assets and buying short dated govt bonds.....that's referred to as a flight to quality. In share terms selling say media companies and buying utilities.

DoubleSix

12,568 posts

206 months

Thursday 21st November 2013
quotequote all
HandsomeBob said:
AJS- said:
"Retrenching" would sound good.
This is perfect, thank you!
It really isn't.

The terms you're after could be;

- Tactical Switching
- Asset Allocation
- Rotation

If you are talking about entering and exiting the market as a whole this known as 'market timing'.

Try investopedia.com for help with finance terms you are unfamilier with.

HTH

Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 21st November 14:51

DoubleSix

12,568 posts

206 months

Thursday 21st November 2013
quotequote all
Cheib said:
Flight to quality I think would be the market behaviour that sums that up best.

Typical behaviour in times of market stress or uncertainty is selling riskier assets and buying short dated govt bonds.....that's referred to as a flight to quality. In share terms selling say media companies and buying utilities.
Flight to safety is a better descripton. You can have high quality companies that still carry high risk. Quality and risk are not the same thing.

Selling media companies and buying utilities would be described as rotation from cyclicals to defensives.

walm

10,644 posts

232 months

Thursday 21st November 2013
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I agree with 2x6.
Switching from one commodity market to another doesn't really say much about quality!

I do sometimes use the term "crap rally" when really what is happening is a risk rally from defensives to cyclicals.

It's unfair because some cyclicals are the highest quality companies you will ever encounter - they just happen to have more volatile earnings.

Cheib

25,434 posts

205 months

Thursday 21st November 2013
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DoubleSix said:
Cheib said:
Flight to quality I think would be the market behaviour that sums that up best.

Typical behaviour in times of market stress or uncertainty is selling riskier assets and buying short dated govt bonds.....that's referred to as a flight to quality. In share terms selling say media companies and buying utilities.
Flight to safety is a better descripton. You can have high quality companies that still carry high risk. Quality and risk are not the same thing.

Selling media companies and buying utilities would be described as rotation from cyclicals to defensives.
I know that safety might be a better description but the terminology in the bond markets that is used is flight to quality. There are many market terms that are not technically accurate but the OP was asking for a banking/finance term and that's the term used in the bond markets.

Media companies aren't viewed as cyclicals necessarilly either....industrials and chemical companies would be seen as much more cyclical. For example Sky is as a media company but it's actually become almost a utility in many households and indeed in times when the economy suffers people keep their Sky subscriptions as it's cheap entertainment vs going to the cinema for example. However it's business model is ultimately more risky than that of a utility.

DoubleSix

12,568 posts

206 months

Thursday 21st November 2013
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Of course we do look at these things from our own particular feilds.

Personally, as a stockbroker with 15 years portfolio management under my belt I would argue that media is very much a cyclical and commonly regarded as such. In times of economic downturn one if the first things a business can cut back on is marketing, as such the WPPs of this world are vulnerable to reduced corporate spend. BSY are an interesting case but again depend on discretionary spend, people can very quickly cut back on non essential services when they feel the pinch. Not so with a true defensives such as a utility or beverage company.

Cheib

25,434 posts

205 months

Friday 22nd November 2013
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DoubleSix said:
Of course we do look at these things from our own particular feilds.

Personally, as a stockbroker with 15 years portfolio management under my belt I would argue that media is very much a cyclical and commonly regarded as such. In times of economic downturn one if the first things a business can cut back on is marketing, as such the WPPs of this world are vulnerable to reduced corporate spend. BSY are an interesting case but again depend on discretionary spend, people can very quickly cut back on non essential services when they feel the pinch. Not so with a true defensives such as a utility or beverage company.
True but the evidence regarding BSY is contrarian to that. Sales in 2007 were £4.5bil and have grown every year since (including 2008 and 2009) and are currently £6.7bil. Anything but discretionary it seems. Saying media is cyclical is outdated IMHO it's an incredibly broad sector, WPP is broadly an advertising play and is clearly quite cyclical but it is also a sector with incredibly high growth companies too...social media for example.