Ecoty top 5 cars all auto
Discussion
It' s a sad day that the top 5 cars are all auto.
Also the 4c is an auto and the great Clio sports hack has now also gone auto.
Sad times, and I don't like it, for our next shop run about we are buying the fiesta ST and I'll keep my Cayman R manual thanks.
I had a Auto and sold it in 3 months as I was board with it. Also even in that 3 months my driving skills had diminished.
Why the big need for PDK,DSG,DCT. Etc. it seems to me only to chase times and keep up with the next car.
As for taking a car out for fun they are dull as dishwater and make you a lazy arse.
I like having a loan car in auto for a 30 minute play , but to buy one with my own money I would feel the fun of driving was over and I may as well sell up and change hobby buy a range rover and take up golf.
Along with all this s
tty electric steering bks the modern car are not always for the better how ever nice the build.
I am not a fan of old cars either so I have no idea what I will buy next ? Is driving for fun going to die
Is the evo car of the year really going to be fun to drive in the UK on the great network of our B roads ?
Also the 4c is an auto and the great Clio sports hack has now also gone auto.
Sad times, and I don't like it, for our next shop run about we are buying the fiesta ST and I'll keep my Cayman R manual thanks.
I had a Auto and sold it in 3 months as I was board with it. Also even in that 3 months my driving skills had diminished.
Why the big need for PDK,DSG,DCT. Etc. it seems to me only to chase times and keep up with the next car.
As for taking a car out for fun they are dull as dishwater and make you a lazy arse.
I like having a loan car in auto for a 30 minute play , but to buy one with my own money I would feel the fun of driving was over and I may as well sell up and change hobby buy a range rover and take up golf.
Along with all this s
tty electric steering bks the modern car are not always for the better how ever nice the build.I am not a fan of old cars either so I have no idea what I will buy next ? Is driving for fun going to die
Is the evo car of the year really going to be fun to drive in the UK on the great network of our B roads ?
mrdemon said:
It' s a sad day that the top 5 cars are all auto.
Also the 4c is an auto and the great Clio sports hack has now also gone auto.
Sad times, and I don't like it, for our next shop run about we are buying the fiesta ST and I'll keep my Cayman R manual thanks.
I had a Auto and sold it in 3 months as I was board with it. Also even in that 3 months my driving skills had diminished.
Why the big need for PDK,DSG,DCT. Etc. it seems to me only to chase times and keep up with the next car.
As for taking a car out for fun they are dull as dishwater and make you a lazy arse.
I like having a loan car in auto for a 30 minute play , but to buy one with my own money I would feel the fun of driving was over and I may as well sell up and change hobby buy a range rover and take up golf.
Along with all this stty electric steering bks the modern car are not always for the better how ever nice the build.
I am not a fan of old cars either so I have no idea what I will buy next ? Is driving for fun going to die
Is the evo car of the year really going to be fun to drive in the UK on the great network of our B roads ?
Actually number 4 ... The Aston....is an automated manual....rather different engagement/involvement to the Dual Clutchers ....and number 5 ...the Audi ..is still available with a clutch...yup 3 pedals...so there's your answer ..pony up for the Audi if you want to stay manual pure....Also the 4c is an auto and the great Clio sports hack has now also gone auto.
Sad times, and I don't like it, for our next shop run about we are buying the fiesta ST and I'll keep my Cayman R manual thanks.
I had a Auto and sold it in 3 months as I was board with it. Also even in that 3 months my driving skills had diminished.
Why the big need for PDK,DSG,DCT. Etc. it seems to me only to chase times and keep up with the next car.
As for taking a car out for fun they are dull as dishwater and make you a lazy arse.
I like having a loan car in auto for a 30 minute play , but to buy one with my own money I would feel the fun of driving was over and I may as well sell up and change hobby buy a range rover and take up golf.
Along with all this s
tty electric steering bks the modern car are not always for the better how ever nice the build.I am not a fan of old cars either so I have no idea what I will buy next ? Is driving for fun going to die
Is the evo car of the year really going to be fun to drive in the UK on the great network of our B roads ?
Auto manual lol what a joke,
I drove a vantage S for a day, it' s not got a clutch and most will end up driving them in full auto mode.
it's not nice a box and only works in sports mode I found.
All the manufactures are calling their cars automated manual these days even PDK and Porsche do it now with dual clutch.
Just marketing talk be it twin clutch or single.
I drove a vantage S for a day, it' s not got a clutch and most will end up driving them in full auto mode.
it's not nice a box and only works in sports mode I found.
All the manufactures are calling their cars automated manual these days even PDK and Porsche do it now with dual clutch.
Just marketing talk be it twin clutch or single.
Ditto on the test drive...for the Aston S
Agree is a crap auto box ...so I did not use D...but rather thought and used it as a manual without a clutch pedal...meaning one has to moderate throttle on up shifts to ease clutch engagement and think through when best to take shifts just as with a 3 peddler..
In that mode is distinct to the dual clutches ....more brain involved....and modifiable action ...found I rather like it...and my normal stead is a 7.2 GT3 RS.....
Still intrigued as to Audi"s perseverance with manual option ... Respect them for continuing to offer
Agree is a crap auto box ...so I did not use D...but rather thought and used it as a manual without a clutch pedal...meaning one has to moderate throttle on up shifts to ease clutch engagement and think through when best to take shifts just as with a 3 peddler..
In that mode is distinct to the dual clutches ....more brain involved....and modifiable action ...found I rather like it...and my normal stead is a 7.2 GT3 RS.....
Still intrigued as to Audi"s perseverance with manual option ... Respect them for continuing to offer
mrdemon said:
It' s a sad day that the top 5 cars are all auto.
Also the 4c is an auto and the great Clio sports hack has now also gone auto.
Sad times, and I don't like it, for our next shop run about we are buying the fiesta ST and I'll keep my Cayman R manual thanks.
I had a Auto and sold it in 3 months as I was board with it. Also even in that 3 months my driving skills had diminished.
Why the big need for PDK,DSG,DCT. Etc. it seems to me only to chase times and keep up with the next car.
As for taking a car out for fun they are dull as dishwater and make you a lazy arse.
I like having a loan car in auto for a 30 minute play , but to buy one with my own money I would feel the fun of driving was over and I may as well sell up and change hobby buy a range rover and take up golf.
Along with all this stty electric steering bks the modern car are not always for the better how ever nice the build.
I am not a fan of old cars either so I have no idea what I will buy next ? Is driving for fun going to die
Is the evo car of the year really going to be fun to drive in the UK on the great network of our B roads ?
Also the 4c is an auto and the great Clio sports hack has now also gone auto.
Sad times, and I don't like it, for our next shop run about we are buying the fiesta ST and I'll keep my Cayman R manual thanks.
I had a Auto and sold it in 3 months as I was board with it. Also even in that 3 months my driving skills had diminished.
Why the big need for PDK,DSG,DCT. Etc. it seems to me only to chase times and keep up with the next car.
As for taking a car out for fun they are dull as dishwater and make you a lazy arse.
I like having a loan car in auto for a 30 minute play , but to buy one with my own money I would feel the fun of driving was over and I may as well sell up and change hobby buy a range rover and take up golf.
Along with all this s
tty electric steering bks the modern car are not always for the better how ever nice the build.I am not a fan of old cars either so I have no idea what I will buy next ? Is driving for fun going to die
Is the evo car of the year really going to be fun to drive in the UK on the great network of our B roads ?
There are multiple reasons that the manual is nearly extinct.
But i think it comes down to this. Most people are not interested in 'driving' a car anymore and want it done for them.
Its a self fulfilling prophecy, look at the amount of cars now sold with reversing sensors and even cameras! They cant even be arsed to swivel their fat heads around. And if they crash, its the cars fault.
Very few people, even so called car enthusiasts, are interested in the manually intensive skill of pedalling a car quickly.
And their reason is that computers are faster.
But i think it comes down to this. Most people are not interested in 'driving' a car anymore and want it done for them.
Its a self fulfilling prophecy, look at the amount of cars now sold with reversing sensors and even cameras! They cant even be arsed to swivel their fat heads around. And if they crash, its the cars fault.
Very few people, even so called car enthusiasts, are interested in the manually intensive skill of pedalling a car quickly.
And their reason is that computers are faster.
I'm not sure I totally, (bare with me) agree with some of the sentiment in this thread.
I love driving and now feel that a good auto box is actually the way ahead. I wasn't always this way, up until I had an X5 (again bare with me here), I hated auto boxes. Okay, so why did an X5 change my mind? The new 8 speed (auto) box in the X5 is an outstanding box, and made a humble 4x4 fun to drive, but more on that in a bit.
I have had quite a few cars over the years and avoided auto/dual clutches like the plague. It was when I moved from a Boxster S (manual) to a TT (V6 DSG) over ten years ago that it confirmed my dislike of autos, (the first DSG box was like driving on an elastic band and would change up/down on its own in manual mode). Previous to that I had had an M3 CSL which I loved but just couldn't get on with the SMG box.
So, having tried a few times to love auto boxes (in some great cars), I stayed with manuals in my 911's, until now. A few years ago I decided to stop buying expensive cars (marriage/children....) and bought a new X5 as my first propper family car. The X5 only comes with an auto box so I had no choice but to buy the car with one. I did however chip the 3ltr engine to about 300bhp and that combined with the gearbox made the car "fun". Well as much as a 2 ton 4x4 can be, but it was the gearbox in manual mode that really caught my attention. Look I know most of you guys on this thread will think it silly that an X5 with a proper auto (no clutch) box would make any kind of driving fun but, honestly it really was. It is a fantastic box and I think it's now the same box that is used in the Jag F Type and Range Rovers and many other mainstream cars.
Anyway, it opened my eyes and so when I came across an AMG C63 for sale a few months ago (at a great price) I decided that after years of hating auto boxes I would try to live once again with an auto (single clutch) box. Now ultimately the C63 was not the car for me (great engine but difficult car to live with day to day so I sold it), but the box added to an outstanding engine was fun. And (and this is really important), when in traffic I could just leave it to do its thing. The thing is, traffic is getting worse and while we all dream of trackdays and fast driving, the reality is most of the time you sit in traffic if you commute to work, (or at least I do).
So when I started to look for alternative cars a month or so ago I looked again at PDK and S-Tronic (the new DSG). Ultimately I settled on a new 991 with PDK (and sports plus) and you know what, I love it. But here is the reason, the box (and in this case the car) flatter my driving. When I last tracked a car I found having an auto box an easier drive than a manual (more fun). Yes I agree that a skilled driver will make better use of manual, but for those of us that drive for fun, and have middling skills, an auto box (make that a good auto box because not all boxes are made equal), can be a great addition to a fast car. Look at the GTR, have you driven one? They are insane and while not my cup of tea, I can acknowledge that it is one hell of a car and the gearbox in it is amazing. I'm not sure it would work in the way it does with a manual box?
Sorry for the ramble, but I guess what I'm trying to say is I get where you are coming from, but that because for most of us, a car has to fulfill many functions, an auto box is the way ahead. Unless of course you are a skilled driver and have the luxury of a car you can drive daily and a manual you save for the weekends and track days?
So, after all that I can understand why the GT3 has moved to PDK only. And if that box is indeed better than the v2 PDK I have fitted to my 991 then bring it on, I might just (have to) order one.....
Tom.
I love driving and now feel that a good auto box is actually the way ahead. I wasn't always this way, up until I had an X5 (again bare with me here), I hated auto boxes. Okay, so why did an X5 change my mind? The new 8 speed (auto) box in the X5 is an outstanding box, and made a humble 4x4 fun to drive, but more on that in a bit.
I have had quite a few cars over the years and avoided auto/dual clutches like the plague. It was when I moved from a Boxster S (manual) to a TT (V6 DSG) over ten years ago that it confirmed my dislike of autos, (the first DSG box was like driving on an elastic band and would change up/down on its own in manual mode). Previous to that I had had an M3 CSL which I loved but just couldn't get on with the SMG box.
So, having tried a few times to love auto boxes (in some great cars), I stayed with manuals in my 911's, until now. A few years ago I decided to stop buying expensive cars (marriage/children....) and bought a new X5 as my first propper family car. The X5 only comes with an auto box so I had no choice but to buy the car with one. I did however chip the 3ltr engine to about 300bhp and that combined with the gearbox made the car "fun". Well as much as a 2 ton 4x4 can be, but it was the gearbox in manual mode that really caught my attention. Look I know most of you guys on this thread will think it silly that an X5 with a proper auto (no clutch) box would make any kind of driving fun but, honestly it really was. It is a fantastic box and I think it's now the same box that is used in the Jag F Type and Range Rovers and many other mainstream cars.
Anyway, it opened my eyes and so when I came across an AMG C63 for sale a few months ago (at a great price) I decided that after years of hating auto boxes I would try to live once again with an auto (single clutch) box. Now ultimately the C63 was not the car for me (great engine but difficult car to live with day to day so I sold it), but the box added to an outstanding engine was fun. And (and this is really important), when in traffic I could just leave it to do its thing. The thing is, traffic is getting worse and while we all dream of trackdays and fast driving, the reality is most of the time you sit in traffic if you commute to work, (or at least I do).
So when I started to look for alternative cars a month or so ago I looked again at PDK and S-Tronic (the new DSG). Ultimately I settled on a new 991 with PDK (and sports plus) and you know what, I love it. But here is the reason, the box (and in this case the car) flatter my driving. When I last tracked a car I found having an auto box an easier drive than a manual (more fun). Yes I agree that a skilled driver will make better use of manual, but for those of us that drive for fun, and have middling skills, an auto box (make that a good auto box because not all boxes are made equal), can be a great addition to a fast car. Look at the GTR, have you driven one? They are insane and while not my cup of tea, I can acknowledge that it is one hell of a car and the gearbox in it is amazing. I'm not sure it would work in the way it does with a manual box?
Sorry for the ramble, but I guess what I'm trying to say is I get where you are coming from, but that because for most of us, a car has to fulfill many functions, an auto box is the way ahead. Unless of course you are a skilled driver and have the luxury of a car you can drive daily and a manual you save for the weekends and track days?
So, after all that I can understand why the GT3 has moved to PDK only. And if that box is indeed better than the v2 PDK I have fitted to my 991 then bring it on, I might just (have to) order one.....
Tom.
But that's my point, does it?
Have you owned/tried cars that do it well? I'm not so sure that they are poor substitutes for a pure driving experience.
I don't think it is as simple as autobox and electric steering = poor driving experience. My assumption was the same before I owned cars that did these things well....
I really like the steering in my 991, (that might get me flamed).
Have you owned/tried cars that do it well? I'm not so sure that they are poor substitutes for a pure driving experience.
I don't think it is as simple as autobox and electric steering = poor driving experience. My assumption was the same before I owned cars that did these things well....
I really like the steering in my 991, (that might get me flamed).
Edited by findtomdotcom on Friday 15th November 07:38
most modern cars are like floating along on a hovercraft these days, with the driver very remote from the driving experience, and merely pointing the thing along the road. It must be the way we like it, or I guess they wouldn't make them. Or maybe its a byproduct of the manufacturers technology/gimmick war e.g why would you want a manual gear change when you are happy to be ordered around do by satnav.
findtomdotcom said:
But that's my point, does it?
Have you owned/tried cars that do it well? I'm so sure that they are poor substitutes for a pure driving experience.
I don't think it is as simple as autobox and electric steering = poor driving experience. My assumption was the same before I owned cars that did these things well....
I really like the steering in my 991, (that might get me flamed).
Agree with all your comments. The 991 is an outstanding car!! Nothing but fun to drive, but I like you am not a driving expert! (I'm not bad though) Have you owned/tried cars that do it well? I'm so sure that they are poor substitutes for a pure driving experience.
I don't think it is as simple as autobox and electric steering = poor driving experience. My assumption was the same before I owned cars that did these things well....
I really like the steering in my 991, (that might get me flamed).
findtomdotcom said:
But that's my point, does it?
Have you owned/tried cars that do it well? I'm so sure that they are poor substitutes for a pure driving experience.
I don't think it is as simple as autobox and electric steering = poor driving experience. My assumption was the same before I owned cars that did these things well....
I really like the steering in my 991, (that might get me flamed).
Agree with all your comments. The 991 is an outstanding car!! Nothing but fun to drive, but I like you am not a driving expert! (I'm not bad though) Have you owned/tried cars that do it well? I'm so sure that they are poor substitutes for a pure driving experience.
I don't think it is as simple as autobox and electric steering = poor driving experience. My assumption was the same before I owned cars that did these things well....
I really like the steering in my 991, (that might get me flamed).
But how far back do go with all this? Geometry and engineering which assist (greatly) in the act of driving has been around since between the world wars. Indeed, the VSCC was created essentially because a group of enthusiasts lamented the passing of a time when cars were built as they should be... and the VSCC set themselves up in 1930.
As some say, the time will come when cars really do drive themselves, but it can also be argued that we've been almost there since the 1960's.
As some say, the time will come when cars really do drive themselves, but it can also be argued that we've been almost there since the 1960's.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Don't be obtuse.Despite the rise of the car you still ride a horse if you want to.
You can still buy an older car with drum brakes, with no syncromesh, with no traction control.
You just cant stand in the way of progress as cars become faster, safer and more efficient.
findtomdotcom said:
But that's my point, does it?
Have you owned/tried cars that do it well? I'm so sure that they are poor substitutes for a pure driving experience.
I've tried them, yes. In fact I drive an Audi A6 with DSC on a regular basis. And because I've driven them that has allowed me to make the decision that I don't want to own one for the reason given previously. Have you owned/tried cars that do it well? I'm so sure that they are poor substitutes for a pure driving experience.
Helicopter123 said:
You just cant stand in the way of progress as cars become faster, safer and more efficient.
I dont think that many are against progress in the terms you outline, its the slow removal of the driver that is the issue.We are heading towards the driverless car, surely we all agree on that? Direct and ultimate control is being removed one by one.
We are already in a position where there are hardly any inputs now made by the driver that arent monitored, controlled and altered by computer systems. These systems decide what actual mechanical movements are made.
We are becoming guiders not drivers.
I bought a 991 PDK and I think it really suits the car, I have driven a manual loan car whilst having the exhaust (and PDK) recalls and really preferred the PDK. Technically it is a thing of wonder
Even driving around and pressing on in manual mode I find myself changing back to sport as it can change much better than I can, meaning it seems to sense exactly the right time to change and feels a lot smoother than when I change.
In terms of driving pleasure, I did the Silverstone driving day a few weeks ago and spent most of the time driving a 991 PDK around the handling circuit, a twisty road that resembles a B road. I am no driving God and really learned a lot as the instructor showed me where to look, when to turn and what to feel for.
When you get it right you can feel it, the whole car just flows that bit better, you can put the power on just a bit earlier and use that momentum. Now, I appreciate that you will all know this, but when you get it wrong, you arrive at the corner in the wrong gear, wrestling with the weight transfer and make a really slow exit.
My point is that EVEN with a PDK 'box all of the pleasure of driving is still there, you still have to balance the speed to get in the right gear, get it right and it feels wonderful, the car just flows around the circuit, the gear changes helping catapult you into the distance, get it wrong and yes, it still changes quickly but you'll end up bogged down.
Also, you learn to drive the 'box, meaning you just can't mash the throttle as nothing happens, the PDK knows when you're pressing on and will hold the gear longer, if you don't want to change then feather the throttle again.
My second point is that there is still very much an art to driving the PDK well and, 9 months on I'm still learning.
Jim
Even driving around and pressing on in manual mode I find myself changing back to sport as it can change much better than I can, meaning it seems to sense exactly the right time to change and feels a lot smoother than when I change.
In terms of driving pleasure, I did the Silverstone driving day a few weeks ago and spent most of the time driving a 991 PDK around the handling circuit, a twisty road that resembles a B road. I am no driving God and really learned a lot as the instructor showed me where to look, when to turn and what to feel for.
When you get it right you can feel it, the whole car just flows that bit better, you can put the power on just a bit earlier and use that momentum. Now, I appreciate that you will all know this, but when you get it wrong, you arrive at the corner in the wrong gear, wrestling with the weight transfer and make a really slow exit.
My point is that EVEN with a PDK 'box all of the pleasure of driving is still there, you still have to balance the speed to get in the right gear, get it right and it feels wonderful, the car just flows around the circuit, the gear changes helping catapult you into the distance, get it wrong and yes, it still changes quickly but you'll end up bogged down.
Also, you learn to drive the 'box, meaning you just can't mash the throttle as nothing happens, the PDK knows when you're pressing on and will hold the gear longer, if you don't want to change then feather the throttle again.
My second point is that there is still very much an art to driving the PDK well and, 9 months on I'm still learning.
Jim
Edited by retreat on Sunday 10th November 17:53
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