Living with an Alfa 166... thoughts?
Discussion
Depending on the outcome of a job application, my wife and I may be in the market for another car as of this coming week. I don't want to tempt fate, but can anyone tell me what living with a 166 is like? I'd like a V6 with a manual 'box. I like my BMW but it would be nice to have something a bit different. Some people warn me off Alfas because of their scary unreliability, but my BMWs haven't exactly been a paragon of bombproof bangernomics. Now, aside from my wife's 205s, I've actually never had a car that wasn't rear wheel drive... how much would I miss the balance and poise of my BMWs in the 166? Also, what are the pre-facelift ones like in terms of efficacy of the headlights? They look tiny! Think I'd prefer a post facelift model.
I drove my 3l SuperLusso for 7 years daily, doing some 100k miles in the process. I've posted before but I can honestly tell you that it is the love of my life. Wonderful to drive, very modern, easy to live with and so special that I felt sorry for most people in their daily drivers. I only stopped using the car as I felt horrible using it for such trips and entered into the company car scheme. That car is now going back after 3 years and I have debated getting Alfy back out but again I can't bear to put even more miles on such a lovely car. I've bought something else privately (take a look at my profile).
My Alfy has been Sorned for 3 years but we'll get it back out and get it MOT'd. Thinking of selling it but am aware that we won't get a lot for it and it's immaculate, albeit with 150k miles on the clock. A good home with someone who will cherish and love it as much as I have would be the only way I'd let it go from the garage.
I don't think you will worry about moving to FWD - the 3l SuperLusso in particular is a very good and sporty drive - you can stick it in 6th and cruise or use the gearbox and "push on" - the best of all worlds. The headlights are gas discharge and my first experience of such "white lights" - never had an issue with them.
PM me if you need any more. Loads of people on here have had or driven one. Best idea is to test drive one and see if it suits you - I am terribly biased... :-)
My Alfy has been Sorned for 3 years but we'll get it back out and get it MOT'd. Thinking of selling it but am aware that we won't get a lot for it and it's immaculate, albeit with 150k miles on the clock. A good home with someone who will cherish and love it as much as I have would be the only way I'd let it go from the garage.
I don't think you will worry about moving to FWD - the 3l SuperLusso in particular is a very good and sporty drive - you can stick it in 6th and cruise or use the gearbox and "push on" - the best of all worlds. The headlights are gas discharge and my first experience of such "white lights" - never had an issue with them.
PM me if you need any more. Loads of people on here have had or driven one. Best idea is to test drive one and see if it suits you - I am terribly biased... :-)
LAK, was it your Griffith 200 my son saw at the Shere Hillclimb last month?
Thanks very much for the information. LAK, is yours a manual or auto? Any info on those tiny pre facelift headlights? I'd be interested to see how interior space compares to the E39 5er I have - since that is really too small for the job it has to do - carrying three heavily-built just-short-of-6-footers (myself and sons 22 and 14), plus a slimmer, leggier 6ft 2ish family friend (non-driver) on a weekly basis... pack all four of us (and my wife) in and the damn thing is so cramped... have cars' packaging got worse down the years or were old cars of decades past genuinely tighter inside than those of today...
Thanks very much for the information. LAK, is yours a manual or auto? Any info on those tiny pre facelift headlights? I'd be interested to see how interior space compares to the E39 5er I have - since that is really too small for the job it has to do - carrying three heavily-built just-short-of-6-footers (myself and sons 22 and 14), plus a slimmer, leggier 6ft 2ish family friend (non-driver) on a weekly basis... pack all four of us (and my wife) in and the damn thing is so cramped... have cars' packaging got worse down the years or were old cars of decades past genuinely tighter inside than those of today...
Hi Rover. Not our Griff 200 but we were there in my racing Lancia Fulvia Sport Zagato (red with yellow stripes). Went very well and enjoyed the day. As all our race cars are road legal I drove hubby and our gorgeous dog too and from the event which got a few looks :-)
Okay I'll try to answer:
1. I stand to be corrected but all the 3 ltr SuperLussos are manual (6 speed). So yep, mine's a manual. The 2.5ltr I think came in auto.
2. Headlights - I think I noted above that they are brilliant. I believe gas discharge and used to be about £400 a side to replace. Never needed to and I'm sure you can get 2nd hand ones. Very bright on full beam (makes things look white) and more than adequate on low.
3. Space - it's huge inside! The boot can house a family of 6 - I'm a keen cyclist and used to put my bike in with front wheel off + all my gym kit and goodness knows what else. Been on holiday many times with it full to the rafters. Interior space - my hubby is 6ft 2 and even with the drivers seat on his memory setting, there's loads of space for rear passengers. I'm not kidding when I say the rear seats are the most comfortable I've sat in - bucketed. The C63 and hubbies 4.6l X5 have got nothing on it. We have regularly taken 5 in the car without issue or cramping. This is a seriously big luxury car.
4. You didn't ask but I know another poster said it comes with stacks of gadgets - it does! Electric heated front seats (memory on driver side), Sat Nav, Bose stereo, 6 CD changer etc. This was an expensive car in its day and mine has every option - fantastic for a 2001 car. That's what I was sold on, along with the drive, comfort, looks etc :-)
Shame our car isn't up and running yet for you to have a good look at. Husband is aiming to do some pre-MOT checks on the car in the next few weeks - he's a bit busy prepping 2 cars for Silverstone this weekend (Griffith and Fulvia), putting a gearbox in the Fiat Abarth and taking the engine out of the Aurelia for a refresh. Gotta love cars!
Let me know if you need anything else.
Okay I'll try to answer:
1. I stand to be corrected but all the 3 ltr SuperLussos are manual (6 speed). So yep, mine's a manual. The 2.5ltr I think came in auto.
2. Headlights - I think I noted above that they are brilliant. I believe gas discharge and used to be about £400 a side to replace. Never needed to and I'm sure you can get 2nd hand ones. Very bright on full beam (makes things look white) and more than adequate on low.
3. Space - it's huge inside! The boot can house a family of 6 - I'm a keen cyclist and used to put my bike in with front wheel off + all my gym kit and goodness knows what else. Been on holiday many times with it full to the rafters. Interior space - my hubby is 6ft 2 and even with the drivers seat on his memory setting, there's loads of space for rear passengers. I'm not kidding when I say the rear seats are the most comfortable I've sat in - bucketed. The C63 and hubbies 4.6l X5 have got nothing on it. We have regularly taken 5 in the car without issue or cramping. This is a seriously big luxury car.
4. You didn't ask but I know another poster said it comes with stacks of gadgets - it does! Electric heated front seats (memory on driver side), Sat Nav, Bose stereo, 6 CD changer etc. This was an expensive car in its day and mine has every option - fantastic for a 2001 car. That's what I was sold on, along with the drive, comfort, looks etc :-)
Shame our car isn't up and running yet for you to have a good look at. Husband is aiming to do some pre-MOT checks on the car in the next few weeks - he's a bit busy prepping 2 cars for Silverstone this weekend (Griffith and Fulvia), putting a gearbox in the Fiat Abarth and taking the engine out of the Aurelia for a refresh. Gotta love cars!
Let me know if you need anything else.
LAK, thanks very much - where are you based? I'm in Leatherhead. I'm not fussed about gadgets or satnav as these tend to end up rather superannuated, but I don't mind them being there. Heated seats would be nice - my 5er doesn't have them and they were the one thing I liked about my late mother's Volvo 340 which I inherited then promptly broke, causing me to get the first of my three BMWs (E30 318i Touring). The 5er's bog standard sound system isn't too brilliant either. Mileage doesn't scare me - in fact low mileage is more intimidating. My 5er had about 58k on the clock when I bought it at about eight years old - and only the driver's seat appeared to have been used. The downside? Loads of stuff has had to be replaced (radiator, alternator, clutch, dual mass flywheel) and the engine burns oil like buggery! Heater has just packed in too, had an air suspension failure a few months back that's still not fully resolved and the build quality is patchy - mostly fine but odd bits inside and out have fallen off and there are a few squeaks and rattles... so, I'm not terrified of old Alfas because I'm used to less than bombproof BMWs... and the Alfa might be easier to forgive if it did throw up any problems.
One quick question - torque steer?
One quick question - torque steer?
Wonderful car..truly glorious
I have had a 1999 3 litre v6 manual Super Lusso (red- usual Alfa fade in places, unfortunately) since January and have loved every minute.
-The sound is incredible
-So comfortable
-Handles like a much smaller car.
I would admit that torque steer is an issue, but not not wildly (you do have to be awake if giving the beans in 2nd..)
Can also confirm that the headlights are actually amongst best I have ever used.
I am a dyed in the wool Alfisti (also have a '98 GTV Spider) but feel it is my duty to advise you of the realities of ownership
Mine has only done 75k from new, but the (one) previous owner spent ALOT to keep it decent. Including, but my no means limited to, the following:
23/10/06 New radiator at 42,200 miles NSR suspension arm replaced New Front discs/pads £866.07
6/8/07 Cambelt, tensioners, idler, aux belt, water pump at 47,500 miles £981.85
31/10/07 Rear Pads
3/10/08 New Plugs
1/10/09 New exhaust at 57,454 miles £506.37
9/12/09 New MAF at 57,744 miles £281.20
14/12/09 New OSR suspension arm at 59,032 miles £346.72
29/06/10 New 2x CV joints at 60,955 miles £417.35
25/07/11 Top suspension at 64,613 £509.10
10/04/12 Cam Belt replaced at 67,500 miles £756
At 68,392 mile air con fixed and re gassed £297
..and £400 quid this year to get through the MOT (2 x CV boots, exhaust centre section)
So, cheap to buy but know what you are getting into.
That said, not missed a beat since I had it, good cars are out there but service history is absolutely key.
You may be able to prise it off me if you wanted- I am seriously looking at Maserati Quattroportes. Will I never learn?
Best,
I have had a 1999 3 litre v6 manual Super Lusso (red- usual Alfa fade in places, unfortunately) since January and have loved every minute.
-The sound is incredible
-So comfortable
-Handles like a much smaller car.
I would admit that torque steer is an issue, but not not wildly (you do have to be awake if giving the beans in 2nd..)
Can also confirm that the headlights are actually amongst best I have ever used.
I am a dyed in the wool Alfisti (also have a '98 GTV Spider) but feel it is my duty to advise you of the realities of ownership
Mine has only done 75k from new, but the (one) previous owner spent ALOT to keep it decent. Including, but my no means limited to, the following:
23/10/06 New radiator at 42,200 miles NSR suspension arm replaced New Front discs/pads £866.07
6/8/07 Cambelt, tensioners, idler, aux belt, water pump at 47,500 miles £981.85
31/10/07 Rear Pads
3/10/08 New Plugs
1/10/09 New exhaust at 57,454 miles £506.37
9/12/09 New MAF at 57,744 miles £281.20
14/12/09 New OSR suspension arm at 59,032 miles £346.72
29/06/10 New 2x CV joints at 60,955 miles £417.35
25/07/11 Top suspension at 64,613 £509.10
10/04/12 Cam Belt replaced at 67,500 miles £756
At 68,392 mile air con fixed and re gassed £297
..and £400 quid this year to get through the MOT (2 x CV boots, exhaust centre section)
So, cheap to buy but know what you are getting into.
That said, not missed a beat since I had it, good cars are out there but service history is absolutely key.
You may be able to prise it off me if you wanted- I am seriously looking at Maserati Quattroportes. Will I never learn?
Best,
Also, rememeber the cambelt- needs to be every 5 years (on time as well as mileage) or 70k, religiously. Consequences of not doing so dire.
If one you are looking at has not had this done to that schedule, will need to be done immediately (along with water pump, aux belts while you are at it) at close to a grand. That applies to low or high mileage cars...
Chose mine precisely as had been done recently by fastidious former owner, despite bill being half current value of car..
If one you are looking at has not had this done to that schedule, will need to be done immediately (along with water pump, aux belts while you are at it) at close to a grand. That applies to low or high mileage cars...
Chose mine precisely as had been done recently by fastidious former owner, despite bill being half current value of car..
I'll admit - I'm a gadget girl. A lost cause and the issue is that once you've got used to electric seats, Sat Nav etc, it's difficult to "regress". The Sat Nav isn't up to modern standards however the Bose system is something else. I have Harman Kardon on the Mini and surround sound Harman Kardon on the C63 and I still think Alfy's Bose is the best I've heard.
Anyway, I digress. Torque steer - not massive but it does have some. I'll be honest and say that I've always been careful revving the Alfa and haven't often felt the need to plant foot to the floor too often - the car's pretty quick without having to do so. Like all FWD it will scrabble a bit but certainly not as bad as the Mini I've been driving which no doubt is down to the turbo rather than silky V6 engine. Of course FWD has a lot to go for it in the winter - never got stuck in the Alfy although it's pretty heavy so you don't want to get too much of a slide going!
Anyway, I digress. Torque steer - not massive but it does have some. I'll be honest and say that I've always been careful revving the Alfa and haven't often felt the need to plant foot to the floor too often - the car's pretty quick without having to do so. Like all FWD it will scrabble a bit but certainly not as bad as the Mini I've been driving which no doubt is down to the turbo rather than silky V6 engine. Of course FWD has a lot to go for it in the winter - never got stuck in the Alfy although it's pretty heavy so you don't want to get too much of a slide going!
galaxie5000 said:
Also, rememeber the cambelt- needs to be every 5 years (on time as well as mileage) or 70k, religiously. Consequences of not doing so dire.
If one you are looking at has not had this done to that schedule, will need to be done immediately (along with water pump, aux belts while you are at it) at close to a grand. That applies to low or high mileage cars...
Chose mine precisely as had been done recently by fastidious former owner, despite bill being half current value of car..
So the belts need doing every 70k and cost nearly a thousand quid? Ouch.If one you are looking at has not had this done to that schedule, will need to be done immediately (along with water pump, aux belts while you are at it) at close to a grand. That applies to low or high mileage cars...
Chose mine precisely as had been done recently by fastidious former owner, despite bill being half current value of car..
It really needs to be done by a specialist (I use Pro Alfa, Watford for eveything)
Its going to be £700 for a straight off belt change
The water pump has a platic impeller from new which can throw a wobbler and take out the cambelt. Conventional wisdom is have that replaced with a metal one too along with aux. belt as may as well whilst have it apart for cambelt from a labour point of view.
Its going to be £700 for a straight off belt change
The water pump has a platic impeller from new which can throw a wobbler and take out the cambelt. Conventional wisdom is have that replaced with a metal one too along with aux. belt as may as well whilst have it apart for cambelt from a labour point of view.
RoverP6B said:
So the belts need doing every 70k and cost nearly a thousand quid? Ouch.
Sounds a bit steep. Alfa Owner do a service and cambelt change for £520 http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_servicing...TA14 said:
Sounds a bit steep. Alfa Owner do a service and cambelt change for £520 http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_romeo_servicing...
Sunnyside Alfa in Chadwell Heath much cheaper too.The belts should be done ever 60K or 4 years if you ask me. I've seen many tensioners start to fail and make the belt rub against the cam cover and then! Ping!!! £2500 repair bill.
I had a 2.5 manual 166 some years ago - it didnt go wrong very often. But the best thing about it was the way it drove - the steering is superb.
It was replaced with an Audi A8 - which in many ways was a superior car, as you would expect - but not in the driving quality.
The 166, definitely a driver's car.
It was replaced with an Audi A8 - which in many ways was a superior car, as you would expect - but not in the driving quality.
The 166, definitely a driver's car.
Hi guys. Sorry I've been out and about and missed the thread updates. It also looks like I commented in the middle of comments re reliability. Hope it doesn't look like I was shying away from the subject!!
Let's be honest, any and every car needs looking after. Case in point my Mini company car is barely 3 years old and because it's on probably a basic service level, it's just broken down (tensioner), the bonnet catches needed replacing and some of the pipes are rusting. It's done "just" 62k miles.
Over the years we have cosseted Alfy. Brakes and hand brake cables (MOT failure) a regular replacement. Also had a couple of clutches and before the car went into hibernation a lot of the suspension was replaced - don't have the details to hand but can dig out. Cambelt has been replaced a couple of times (common for Italian cars) - AutoIntegrale sorted us out. The car only let me down once and even then it broke down in the drive when the MAF needed replacing.
This sounds like a massive list but to be honest for 100k miles in our ownership it has been reliable. More so than a dreadful Merc W124 I once owned (terrible car) and even this recent Mini which is in and out of Mini every few months for something or other. Rover, like you said, it's about going into everything with your eyes open. No car is going to be faultless, the issues with the 166 are well known and these days there are plenty of great Italian specialists around at reasonable price.
Rover, I don't think you got my PM. Based in Guildford.
Let's be honest, any and every car needs looking after. Case in point my Mini company car is barely 3 years old and because it's on probably a basic service level, it's just broken down (tensioner), the bonnet catches needed replacing and some of the pipes are rusting. It's done "just" 62k miles.
Over the years we have cosseted Alfy. Brakes and hand brake cables (MOT failure) a regular replacement. Also had a couple of clutches and before the car went into hibernation a lot of the suspension was replaced - don't have the details to hand but can dig out. Cambelt has been replaced a couple of times (common for Italian cars) - AutoIntegrale sorted us out. The car only let me down once and even then it broke down in the drive when the MAF needed replacing.
This sounds like a massive list but to be honest for 100k miles in our ownership it has been reliable. More so than a dreadful Merc W124 I once owned (terrible car) and even this recent Mini which is in and out of Mini every few months for something or other. Rover, like you said, it's about going into everything with your eyes open. No car is going to be faultless, the issues with the 166 are well known and these days there are plenty of great Italian specialists around at reasonable price.
Rover, I don't think you got my PM. Based in Guildford.
If it helps, I went out and brought one on Tuesday and it is fantastic, has a few little issues every now and again like the remote boot release not working but I didn't pay a lot for it so I don't mind at all.
As a pure driving experience and nice place to sit there's nothing in the market at that price like it.
As a pure driving experience and nice place to sit there's nothing in the market at that price like it.
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