Dino 246 advice
Discussion
A friend of a friend is thinking of buying a 246 Dino.
Gorgeous, lovely, awesome things. And really relevent to these speed camera covered roads, as the little thing can be probably hooned without doing silly speeds.
I notice that there seems to be a big difference in prices. Some are around the £45k mark while others nudge £60k. All seem to have been restored.
I think this could be a car to get burned with if you pick a bad one. On the other hand, a good one must be motoring nirvana...
Anyone round here got any pearls of wisdom?
Cheers
Gorgeous, lovely, awesome things. And really relevent to these speed camera covered roads, as the little thing can be probably hooned without doing silly speeds.
I notice that there seems to be a big difference in prices. Some are around the £45k mark while others nudge £60k. All seem to have been restored.
I think this could be a car to get burned with if you pick a bad one. On the other hand, a good one must be motoring nirvana...
Anyone round here got any pearls of wisdom?
Cheers
The floor, or underside if you prefer to call it that, is a self-destructive sandwich. Dense fibreglass wool between two layers of metal - the fibreglass draws moisture like blotting paper, and rust is inevitable.
If it's been cared for and garaged it's OK, but if it has lived outside that's another story.
One of the worst features was the need to tighten down the heads after 1,000 miles. Not unreasonable, but ignored by most dealers because they were only allowed £35 for the first free service.
The problem here was that the camshafts had to come out to reach the studs, and that alone cost over £100 in skilled mechanics' time.
So check that there were no early cylinder head problems, and if all is well you only need a magician with a stethoscope to set up the carbs, and as they say, Bob's your Uncle....or something like that!
>> Edited by McNab on Thursday 28th October 12:50
If it's been cared for and garaged it's OK, but if it has lived outside that's another story.
One of the worst features was the need to tighten down the heads after 1,000 miles. Not unreasonable, but ignored by most dealers because they were only allowed £35 for the first free service.
The problem here was that the camshafts had to come out to reach the studs, and that alone cost over £100 in skilled mechanics' time.
So check that there were no early cylinder head problems, and if all is well you only need a magician with a stethoscope to set up the carbs, and as they say, Bob's your Uncle....or something like that!
>> Edited by McNab on Thursday 28th October 12:50
I used to work for a well known classic car auctioneers and saw, admired and played with many of these beauties ..... its amazing how the prices have been slowly creeping up, when i first started you could pick them up for £20k, when i finished they were £45k+.
Anyway, from what i saw, the very best were the low mileage originals - but it was hard to find a REALLY good one, it was amazing how scruffy some low mileage cars were. The nicest always made the best money and would then make more when they came back around for sale again a few years later. Good cars were the ones that were truly pampered, heated garages, gentleman owner who really loved the car etc.
Condition wise, they seemed to rust - everywhere, no two the same, so they needed very carefully inspecting. Lots of them had broken bits of trim and annoying little problems, although mechanically they seemed pretty strong. I understood the engines are good and very tough if properly looked after. Usual rules applied, no revving when cold (oil pressure would blow oil filters off) regular maintenance of cam chains, i had heard that cam lobes could be knocked off if revved hard cold, too. Bottom ends never seemed to be a problem. Smoky engines occured on higher mileage ones, usual checks applied (lift off power on a run and then foot down again), but i cant remember ever having one come through that had major engine problems. I seem to remember rotten road wheels, too - they went all flaky as the alloy corroded and they couldnt be fixed. Some had very notchy gearboxes if i recall.
Anyway that is what i remember - lovely cars and surprisingly tough with the usual classic Italian temprament. BTW i am 6'2" and dont recall having problems driving them. Good luck in your search.
...edited to add - the bad ones were a nightmare, they would often come around again having cost the owner a small fortune, so buy carfeully.
>> Edited by larrylamb11 on Thursday 28th October 15:11
Anyway, from what i saw, the very best were the low mileage originals - but it was hard to find a REALLY good one, it was amazing how scruffy some low mileage cars were. The nicest always made the best money and would then make more when they came back around for sale again a few years later. Good cars were the ones that were truly pampered, heated garages, gentleman owner who really loved the car etc.
Condition wise, they seemed to rust - everywhere, no two the same, so they needed very carefully inspecting. Lots of them had broken bits of trim and annoying little problems, although mechanically they seemed pretty strong. I understood the engines are good and very tough if properly looked after. Usual rules applied, no revving when cold (oil pressure would blow oil filters off) regular maintenance of cam chains, i had heard that cam lobes could be knocked off if revved hard cold, too. Bottom ends never seemed to be a problem. Smoky engines occured on higher mileage ones, usual checks applied (lift off power on a run and then foot down again), but i cant remember ever having one come through that had major engine problems. I seem to remember rotten road wheels, too - they went all flaky as the alloy corroded and they couldnt be fixed. Some had very notchy gearboxes if i recall.
Anyway that is what i remember - lovely cars and surprisingly tough with the usual classic Italian temprament. BTW i am 6'2" and dont recall having problems driving them. Good luck in your search.
...edited to add - the bad ones were a nightmare, they would often come around again having cost the owner a small fortune, so buy carfeully.
>> Edited by larrylamb11 on Thursday 28th October 15:11
Toppstuff, you would need to try it for size. I am only 5' 9" and I found that although it fitted, the cockpit seemed smallish.
Cars have become so much wider that anything compact feels restrictive, but for me it all depends on the car. Take the Exige as an example; it fits like a glove, but it does everything so well that you revel in the directness and feel of the thing.
I think you would like the Dino for its pure Italianate character, and the driving experience is great. Handling, engine, gearbox, refinement - all remarkably good for a 1970 design. I do have reservations about legroom for you though. Best sit in one and see if it's OK.
Marki, yes I played with the idea of a Gallardo, but they're still too pricey - new or used! The 996TT was sorted out and has been very good, although slightly too efficient to make it interesting.
The present idea is a Maserati GranSport - a little aggro will do me no harm, and with Italian seats I never get the backache I have after ten minutes in a German car. Not as quick or as high-quality as the Porsche, and no doubt plenty of little niggles, but I would like something less obtrusive and more 'atmospheric'.
People tend to look at you if you have a Porsche and say "what's that stupid old B doing driving a car like that?" With a bit of luck they'll think the Maser's a Mondeo (no offense to Ford; good car).
P.S. The Exige belongs to my middle-aged son!!
Cars have become so much wider that anything compact feels restrictive, but for me it all depends on the car. Take the Exige as an example; it fits like a glove, but it does everything so well that you revel in the directness and feel of the thing.
I think you would like the Dino for its pure Italianate character, and the driving experience is great. Handling, engine, gearbox, refinement - all remarkably good for a 1970 design. I do have reservations about legroom for you though. Best sit in one and see if it's OK.
Marki, yes I played with the idea of a Gallardo, but they're still too pricey - new or used! The 996TT was sorted out and has been very good, although slightly too efficient to make it interesting.
The present idea is a Maserati GranSport - a little aggro will do me no harm, and with Italian seats I never get the backache I have after ten minutes in a German car. Not as quick or as high-quality as the Porsche, and no doubt plenty of little niggles, but I would like something less obtrusive and more 'atmospheric'.
People tend to look at you if you have a Porsche and say "what's that stupid old B doing driving a car like that?" With a bit of luck they'll think the Maser's a Mondeo (no offense to Ford; good car).
P.S. The Exige belongs to my middle-aged son!!
Greg, it came on an old banger I bought in 1970 (and sold rather quickly!). An Austin A40 from Liverpool.
Seven is my lucky number, so 77 can't be bad. The SF bit seems to appeal to lots of Ferrari owners judging by the enquiries I've had. Scuderia Ferrari (geddit?)
The number on the Exige was on my wife's dowry
when we married in 1960 - a Renault Dauphine. A yellow one!
Can't beat sentiment...
>> Edited by McNab on Thursday 28th October 16:41
Seven is my lucky number, so 77 can't be bad. The SF bit seems to appeal to lots of Ferrari owners judging by the enquiries I've had. Scuderia Ferrari (geddit?)
The number on the Exige was on my wife's dowry
when we married in 1960 - a Renault Dauphine. A yellow one! Can't beat sentiment...
>> Edited by McNab on Thursday 28th October 16:41
Ian, while still talking Dinos, I have a 74 GT4 and with 245/70 tyres it is an understeering pig on the track but still great on the road.
As yours would have had the original Michelin 205s, do you think they handle better with the original spec ?
I have tried all the -ve camber (1.5) I can get and done the 6 degrees of castor to try and dial it out but I suspect the 245s are the root cause.
BTW the car is running the original 6.5x14" and is VERY tyre pressure sensitive (40 all round is terrible, 34/37 f/r is good but not great)
Thanks John
As yours would have had the original Michelin 205s, do you think they handle better with the original spec ?
I have tried all the -ve camber (1.5) I can get and done the 6 degrees of castor to try and dial it out but I suspect the 245s are the root cause.
BTW the car is running the original 6.5x14" and is VERY tyre pressure sensitive (40 all round is terrible, 34/37 f/r is good but not great)
Thanks John
John,
Surprised by that. The originals handled well on Michelins, but I can't remember the tyre pressures.
Well worth fiddling with them - am I right in thinking you want less understeer?
Cheers,
Ian.
Edited to say that I only drove the car on original spec 205s, and if everything else is OK your tyres are probably the stumbling block.
>> Edited by McNab on Friday 29th October 20:07
Surprised by that. The originals handled well on Michelins, but I can't remember the tyre pressures.
Well worth fiddling with them - am I right in thinking you want less understeer?
Cheers,
Ian.
Edited to say that I only drove the car on original spec 205s, and if everything else is OK your tyres are probably the stumbling block.
>> Edited by McNab on Friday 29th October 20:07
Thanks Ian, I suspect you are right about the tyres and the understeer is only really noticable when pushing VERY hard on the track or road.
With the right tyre pressures I find it possible to drive on the throttle but if the pressures are not EXACTLY right the car is a LOT unstable when pushing hard...not a desirable thing for the road.
Anyway, I rolled the GT4 a while back and wrote it off so am now on the way to a 328 or 348 hopefully with better results.
I'd appreciate your opinion of the "improvement" of either of these cars over the GT4
Cheers
John
With the right tyre pressures I find it possible to drive on the throttle but if the pressures are not EXACTLY right the car is a LOT unstable when pushing hard...not a desirable thing for the road.
Anyway, I rolled the GT4 a while back and wrote it off so am now on the way to a 328 or 348 hopefully with better results.
I'd appreciate your opinion of the "improvement" of either of these cars over the GT4
Cheers
John
John, the GT4 was a very different concept to the 308GTB family, so it's hard to compare them. Everyone expected the GT4 to be a successor to the Dino, but it wasn't intended to be that at all. It was a non-V12 2 plus 2, intended to fill a gap in the market, and well-liked too.
The Mondial was the GT4's natural successor, and the 308 GTB followed the Dino 246 concept. Strictly a no-compromise two-seater, the 308GTB was hard to criticise, and the 328 was even better.
I had no experience of the 348, but there's no reason to think it was anything but good. Either way, if you can find a nice one, a 328 or 348 would make an excellent replacement for your GT4 (bad luck you had there), and I think you would enjoy the extra performance!
Cheers,
Ian.
The Mondial was the GT4's natural successor, and the 308 GTB followed the Dino 246 concept. Strictly a no-compromise two-seater, the 308GTB was hard to criticise, and the 328 was even better.
I had no experience of the 348, but there's no reason to think it was anything but good. Either way, if you can find a nice one, a 328 or 348 would make an excellent replacement for your GT4 (bad luck you had there), and I think you would enjoy the extra performance!
Cheers,
Ian.
I have just picked up this thread. I have a 1973 246 GTS which I bought last year from Foskers near Brands Hatch. I paid top dollar for it, but I feel it is a good car and a couple of experts who have since seen say it is a good car. In the last year I have done about 2500 miles including taking it to LeMans. Whilst it has has a few niggles none have been major and most were relating to one electrical fault that was difficult to pinpoint. All were fixed under the one year warranty given by Foskers. You would not expect a 30 year old classic Ferrari to have no problems would you!
It is quite the most rewarding car to drive and you would be surprised how quick a well sorted one is, the handling is fantastic especially considering the high wall tyres.
I think the key is to make sure you have a good example. From what I have learnt Foskers in the South and Nick Cartwright in the North are the recognised Dino specialists.
It is quite the most rewarding car to drive and you would be surprised how quick a well sorted one is, the handling is fantastic especially considering the high wall tyres.
I think the key is to make sure you have a good example. From what I have learnt Foskers in the South and Nick Cartwright in the North are the recognised Dino specialists.
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