Do I need my targa clips..?
Discussion
Hello Folks
Just interested in the consensus here.. I know some of you run with the fragile roof clips and some don't.. I am having my screen surround, hood and targa's retrimmed next week and it strikes me the interior will be all the better without these.. but I don't want to loose a targa pannel at speed.
With the roof up its hard to see how I would loose one (I am putting new tags in as part of the work) but if you drive with roof off you can see / feel movement between the door frame and windscreen surround (not much) so there is obviously some flex going on.
So if you wouldn't mind please let me know if you are running these or no and if anyone has any actual tales of the targa's comming off please list.. I note the later cars (ie Chims / Griff etc) don't seem to be running these but then again they have the single targa and not the split ones our S's run.
Also reading related posts it seems the adivice is to keep windows closed when travelling at speed..
Your thougths appreciated.
Thanks
Damian S3
Just interested in the consensus here.. I know some of you run with the fragile roof clips and some don't.. I am having my screen surround, hood and targa's retrimmed next week and it strikes me the interior will be all the better without these.. but I don't want to loose a targa pannel at speed.
With the roof up its hard to see how I would loose one (I am putting new tags in as part of the work) but if you drive with roof off you can see / feel movement between the door frame and windscreen surround (not much) so there is obviously some flex going on.
So if you wouldn't mind please let me know if you are running these or no and if anyone has any actual tales of the targa's comming off please list.. I note the later cars (ie Chims / Griff etc) don't seem to be running these but then again they have the single targa and not the split ones our S's run.
Also reading related posts it seems the adivice is to keep windows closed when travelling at speed..
Your thougths appreciated.
Thanks
Damian S3
My view is tabs yes, clips not so important. I've removed my clips as they kept springing open and were therefore a) ineffective and b) bloody annoying!!
WRT windows up or down - personal choice but I tend to only have the roof on when it's persisting it down and without a little opening of the window I fog up. If I have the rear section up and the targa off, I tend to have windows up due to buffering.
WRT windows up or down - personal choice but I tend to only have the roof on when it's persisting it down and without a little opening of the window I fog up. If I have the rear section up and the targa off, I tend to have windows up due to buffering.
Edited by Scoobimax on Friday 13th September 14:30
Edited by Scoobimax on Friday 13th September 14:31
Scoobimax said:
......My view is tabs yes, clips not so important. I've removed my clips as they kept springing open and were therefore a) ineffective and b) bloody annoying!!
Agreed. I don’t use my clips but then my struts are very tight. If you’ve got floppy struts then use the clips on a better safe than sorry basis.My understanding (perhaps someone knows better?), is that TVR fitted these clips as an afterthough when a roof panel came loose during crash testing.
Does anybody believe these flimsy and badly designed (the angle of the clips to the roof) would make any significant difference in a crash???
They are very basic plastic clips, which I do not believe the manufacturers intended them to be significantly load bearing. held in very doubtfully with small screws. They are not fitted on a flat plane and rarely clip up properly. I am a Mechanical Engineer and I consider the arrangement to be little more than a token gesture.
Does anybody have real personal experience of a panel coming off at speed? I have been on PH a good few years now and I haven't heard current reports of one. Someone may have 'heard' of one coming off but can it be substantiated?
It is just about possible to make a 'cock' of fitting the panel badly enough to leave it loose, I have seen one case of the tags being so rusted that they hardly went in at all, and it is certainly possible for some owners to have the 'pram' section stays so loose that the hood wouldnt be tight enough (particularly perhaps if the chassis is 'shot'), but even then I do not see those clips doing much good.
On the other hand, I worked out where my head or my passengers might reach in a front end impact (just try it for yourself!), and firmly decided I was safer with the clips OFF!
(Interestingly I did see a car at SCH with clips at the BACK of the targa panels!)
Does anybody believe these flimsy and badly designed (the angle of the clips to the roof) would make any significant difference in a crash???
They are very basic plastic clips, which I do not believe the manufacturers intended them to be significantly load bearing. held in very doubtfully with small screws. They are not fitted on a flat plane and rarely clip up properly. I am a Mechanical Engineer and I consider the arrangement to be little more than a token gesture.
Does anybody have real personal experience of a panel coming off at speed? I have been on PH a good few years now and I haven't heard current reports of one. Someone may have 'heard' of one coming off but can it be substantiated?
It is just about possible to make a 'cock' of fitting the panel badly enough to leave it loose, I have seen one case of the tags being so rusted that they hardly went in at all, and it is certainly possible for some owners to have the 'pram' section stays so loose that the hood wouldnt be tight enough (particularly perhaps if the chassis is 'shot'), but even then I do not see those clips doing much good.
On the other hand, I worked out where my head or my passengers might reach in a front end impact (just try it for yourself!), and firmly decided I was safer with the clips OFF!
(Interestingly I did see a car at SCH with clips at the BACK of the targa panels!)
greymrj said:
anybody who has actually had experience of targa panels coming off?
Never happened to me, but then I use my clips ! 
My "theory" is that just possibly going over a big pothole or similar could un-pop a rear brace and with the roof being split maybe a panel could lift at the rear or slide back and the wind get under it?
The clip would hold it into the screen frame long enough/well enough to enable the driver to pull over and sort it out?
Had the bonnet come off an Elan many years ago, not particularly high speed but it didn't half "fly" a long way, took ages to find.
Excellent discussion many thanks everyone I haven't had them for a while now and the pannels are a very good fit with no movement at all as far as I can tell. Will see how things are once recovered and decide. Also the chim rear roof stays do seem to give a more positive closure than my old steel ones.
Thanks D S3
Thanks D S3
Let's be clear about this, guys. The ONLY thing that holds the panels in place is the tangs on the panels. If the rear roof rail moves away from the screen rail by a sufficient amount, for whatever reason, the panels WILL come loose, clips or no clips.
The clips are at the front. The only thing they can do if the above happens is keep the front tangs engaged, meaning the rear of the panels will come loose first. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know. I suppose they might be less likely to fly off, but whether or not this is better than falling on your head, I'll leave you to work out...
Also, if only one panel comes loose, the direction it can move (up or down) is restricted by the overlap between the panels.
Graham
The clips are at the front. The only thing they can do if the above happens is keep the front tangs engaged, meaning the rear of the panels will come loose first. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know. I suppose they might be less likely to fly off, but whether or not this is better than falling on your head, I'll leave you to work out...
Also, if only one panel comes loose, the direction it can move (up or down) is restricted by the overlap between the panels.
Graham
I still have this suspicion that the lost panel is a bit of a myth but I may yet be proven wrong.
I entirely agree with Ragtop about the clips not stopping the panel anyway: consider the forces; if the panel were to come loose the rear lifts out first and it would do so suddenly with some force, does anybody think those plastic clips would then hold it? Just think about the force and the direction it would be in....the clips would break,lever undone, or the weak mountings would pull out.
I really think the issue we should be looking at is not the clips at all, I think they have become a distraction. The real issue is how well the tangs locate and, most importantly, how well located and tight the stays are. The force required to lock out the stays must be sufficient to put the targa panels into enough compression to keep the tangs in even when the aerodynamic lift on the panels is at its highest. But what is that force? I dont know but I suspect it varies considerably between our cars and maybe we do not fully recognise this.
I would be much more interested in the force needed to put the targa into compression, and what other owners experience.
I haven't measured it scientifically but the force necessary on my car is considerable and I have to put in a considerable effort to both lock them out and release them. My partner cannot do it.
I entirely agree with Ragtop about the clips not stopping the panel anyway: consider the forces; if the panel were to come loose the rear lifts out first and it would do so suddenly with some force, does anybody think those plastic clips would then hold it? Just think about the force and the direction it would be in....the clips would break,lever undone, or the weak mountings would pull out.
I really think the issue we should be looking at is not the clips at all, I think they have become a distraction. The real issue is how well the tangs locate and, most importantly, how well located and tight the stays are. The force required to lock out the stays must be sufficient to put the targa panels into enough compression to keep the tangs in even when the aerodynamic lift on the panels is at its highest. But what is that force? I dont know but I suspect it varies considerably between our cars and maybe we do not fully recognise this.
I would be much more interested in the force needed to put the targa into compression, and what other owners experience.
I haven't measured it scientifically but the force necessary on my car is considerable and I have to put in a considerable effort to both lock them out and release them. My partner cannot do it.
greymrj said:
I still have this suspicion that the lost panel is a bit of a myth
those plastic clips would then hold it?
I have to put in a considerable effort to both lock them out and release them. My partner cannot do it.
Myth? clickythose plastic clips would then hold it?
I have to put in a considerable effort to both lock them out and release them. My partner cannot do it.
My clips are metal (all the better to bash my head on).
Does the targa lock easily without the roof panels? If not you are putting a huge strain on the pivots, seem to recall someone on here breaking a targa hoop after fitting alluminium stays and maybe getting them a little too tight.
Hi Mike, at least we know now it isnt a complete myth! Would have liked to know if his stays were right and tight! I cannot see my old girl getting near 130mph in a head wind.
I still dont believe the clips would make a difference, the dynamic load would be just too great. Your metal clips would obviously be much stronger but the mounting points are still very weak.
I have had the stays off mine and they are in excellent condition, no loose joints or anything like that. With the targa panels off the effort needed drops very considerably but it is still a good strong push and still keeps the pram section tight. I have driven on the motorway at 60 with the pram up without a problem although I admit I was anxious about the hood window or lower fastenings failing and I wouldn't recommend it.
What are yours like?
I still dont believe the clips would make a difference, the dynamic load would be just too great. Your metal clips would obviously be much stronger but the mounting points are still very weak.
I have had the stays off mine and they are in excellent condition, no loose joints or anything like that. With the targa panels off the effort needed drops very considerably but it is still a good strong push and still keeps the pram section tight. I have driven on the motorway at 60 with the pram up without a problem although I admit I was anxious about the hood window or lower fastenings failing and I wouldn't recommend it.
What are yours like?
As mentioned - no myth. It has happened to me! The clips could make the difference between popping up or not. Once popped up at 70 mph, clearly nothing left holding it in but rear tangs when wind gets under it. Fortunately mine didn't give way and I didn't lose panel. As I say, I won't drive without clipped (mine too are metal)
Hi Deeman, thanks for some more evidence but in fairness you did say you though the stays were loose.
How much pressure does it take to put 'your' stays up now?
I will now add that I did see one car at a SCH (not this year, and no ID) where the hood stays went up with so little effort that the stays and targa panels were visibly loose afterwards. It worried me at the time but it worries me a lot more now I have studied the roof arrangement in detail.
Maybe I am just a worrier but, like a terrier, I like to 'worry' things until I am satisfied I have bottomed them and documented the results. So bear with me, now the debate is on I would like to see what other info we can draw out. This is where the experience of the likes of Barkychoc and Gerald-TVR could be seriously missed!
How much pressure does it take to put 'your' stays up now?
I will now add that I did see one car at a SCH (not this year, and no ID) where the hood stays went up with so little effort that the stays and targa panels were visibly loose afterwards. It worried me at the time but it worries me a lot more now I have studied the roof arrangement in detail.
Maybe I am just a worrier but, like a terrier, I like to 'worry' things until I am satisfied I have bottomed them and documented the results. So bear with me, now the debate is on I would like to see what other info we can draw out. This is where the experience of the likes of Barkychoc and Gerald-TVR could be seriously missed!
My roof stays are the shiny Griff ones (I think) and they give a very solid close.
I also removed the metal clips on the windscreen surround (along with the sun visors) as they were basically superfluous, and looked like a great way to smash up my forehead one day...
I will stick to destroying my forehead with UV rays...is the other myth true that someone once actually drove an S with the roof up?
I also removed the metal clips on the windscreen surround (along with the sun visors) as they were basically superfluous, and looked like a great way to smash up my forehead one day...
I will stick to destroying my forehead with UV rays...is the other myth true that someone once actually drove an S with the roof up?
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