All advice gratefully received
Discussion
I’m turning to my fellow pistonheaders for help as I’ve just about ran out of patience and hope. What I probably need is a fire extinguisher, as I’m about to set fire to the bloody thing and have done.
In brief, I set about doing an in-situ chassis cleanup on my Griff 500 around five years ago and in the process completely cleaned and POR15’d the thing. I also replaced all the suspension, cleaned and painted all the callipers and replaced all upper wishbones. Whilst manoeuvring myself around the car in my single garage, I managed to put my hand through the rear window and push it half in. Queue a roof removal. Queue a rear carpet disintegration on roof removal. Queue a full carpet replacement and rear screen re-stitch. During all this, I notice that the LCD milometer had flattened its internal watch batteries again (it did this several years ago) so this meant a clock removal and send off for battery replacement. In the process of this the dash laminate split, necessitating an entire dash removal and relamination! So, having spent years with the car off the road, I turned back to the last large outstanding issue – a noisy water pump.
Now we’re getting to the crux of the problem.
Whilst removing the two bolts securing the old unit in, I managed to snap the fricking lower bolt off in the block. Much swearing was uttered, as I knew that to see what the damage was, so to speak, I’d have to strip off the timing cover. This was a pain in the rear, but I managed to see the stud. So, we have enough showing to twist a nut on a turn or so. I decided that I’d do that and weld the nut carefully to the stud and turn it out. No go, the weld wouldn’t hold. I abandoned that approach before I welded the stud to the block. Next, I fatally accepted advice that using stud extractors were relatively easy. I used one. It broke - inside the stud.
Much more swearing.
At this point (and not before time, I hear you say) I decided to ask the professionals how much it might cost to have the problem fixed. I can hear you already drawing in breath. One garage stopped replying to my emails and the other has quoted getting on for a possible £4,000!
So, fellow pistonheaders, what the hell do I do now, any ideas as I’m reaching for the petrol as we speak…
ps, sorry for the length of this post!
In brief, I set about doing an in-situ chassis cleanup on my Griff 500 around five years ago and in the process completely cleaned and POR15’d the thing. I also replaced all the suspension, cleaned and painted all the callipers and replaced all upper wishbones. Whilst manoeuvring myself around the car in my single garage, I managed to put my hand through the rear window and push it half in. Queue a roof removal. Queue a rear carpet disintegration on roof removal. Queue a full carpet replacement and rear screen re-stitch. During all this, I notice that the LCD milometer had flattened its internal watch batteries again (it did this several years ago) so this meant a clock removal and send off for battery replacement. In the process of this the dash laminate split, necessitating an entire dash removal and relamination! So, having spent years with the car off the road, I turned back to the last large outstanding issue – a noisy water pump.
Now we’re getting to the crux of the problem.
Whilst removing the two bolts securing the old unit in, I managed to snap the fricking lower bolt off in the block. Much swearing was uttered, as I knew that to see what the damage was, so to speak, I’d have to strip off the timing cover. This was a pain in the rear, but I managed to see the stud. So, we have enough showing to twist a nut on a turn or so. I decided that I’d do that and weld the nut carefully to the stud and turn it out. No go, the weld wouldn’t hold. I abandoned that approach before I welded the stud to the block. Next, I fatally accepted advice that using stud extractors were relatively easy. I used one. It broke - inside the stud.
Much more swearing.
At this point (and not before time, I hear you say) I decided to ask the professionals how much it might cost to have the problem fixed. I can hear you already drawing in breath. One garage stopped replying to my emails and the other has quoted getting on for a possible £4,000!
So, fellow pistonheaders, what the hell do I do now, any ideas as I’m reaching for the petrol as we speak…
ps, sorry for the length of this post!
phazed said:
Can it be carefully drilled out, then retapped with a larger size and a shouldered stud used?
To make things more difficult (as if it needed it!), the extractor broke off at an angle, meaning that it's hard to get a drill bit to bite into the hard extractor without slipping toward the block.If the stud extractor has snapped of inside and flush with stud then the only way to go is spark erosion.
Try phoning engineering workshops nearby as they will either do it or know someone, unfortunately the engine will have to be removed!.
I snapped one off in a glow plug and had the extractor removed and the remains of the glow plug and the 2 remaining glow plugs for about £150, that was a while ago mind but I cant see it being 4k.
Hope you get it sorted as you need some thing good to happen soon,
Good luck
Jamie
Try phoning engineering workshops nearby as they will either do it or know someone, unfortunately the engine will have to be removed!.
I snapped one off in a glow plug and had the extractor removed and the remains of the glow plug and the 2 remaining glow plugs for about £150, that was a while ago mind but I cant see it being 4k.
Hope you get it sorted as you need some thing good to happen soon,
Good luck
Jamie
LeeHodges said:
So, having spent years with the car off the road, I turned back to the last large outstanding issue – a noisy water pump.
Now we’re getting to the crux of the problem.
Whilst removing the two bolts securing the old unit in, I managed to snap the fricking lower bolt off in the block. Much swearing was uttered, as I knew that to see what the damage was, so to speak, I’d have to strip off the timing cover. This was a pain in the rear, but I managed to see the stud. So, we have enough showing to twist a nut on a turn or so. I decided that I’d do that and weld the nut carefully to the stud and turn it out. No go, the weld wouldn’t hold. I abandoned that approach before I welded the stud to the block. Next, I fatally accepted advice that using stud extractors were relatively easy. I used one. It broke - inside the stud.
This happened to me last weekend. One of the two long bolts which locate the swirl pot on the water pump sheared off at the head. I haven't stripped it down yet to get at it and I should have a decent chunk of it left to play with but I feel your pain.Now we’re getting to the crux of the problem.
Whilst removing the two bolts securing the old unit in, I managed to snap the fricking lower bolt off in the block. Much swearing was uttered, as I knew that to see what the damage was, so to speak, I’d have to strip off the timing cover. This was a pain in the rear, but I managed to see the stud. So, we have enough showing to twist a nut on a turn or so. I decided that I’d do that and weld the nut carefully to the stud and turn it out. No go, the weld wouldn’t hold. I abandoned that approach before I welded the stud to the block. Next, I fatally accepted advice that using stud extractors were relatively easy. I used one. It broke - inside the stud.
As has been said, try to post a decent photo of it up and someone will think of a bright idea to solve the problem.
jamienshelly said:
If the stud extractor has snapped of inside and flush with stud then the only way to go is spark erosion.
Try phoning engineering workshops nearby as they will either do it or know someone, unfortunately the engine will have to be removed!.
I snapped one off in a glow plug and had the extractor removed and the remains of the glow plug and the 2 remaining glow plugs for about £150, that was a while ago mind but I cant see it being 4k.
Hope you get it sorted as you need some thing good to happen soon,
Good luck
Jamie
Thanks, Jamie; spark erosion was mentioned by the garage. I'm pretty resigned to having to take the engine out but I've never done this on a TVR and don't know where the time's coming from.Try phoning engineering workshops nearby as they will either do it or know someone, unfortunately the engine will have to be removed!.
I snapped one off in a glow plug and had the extractor removed and the remains of the glow plug and the 2 remaining glow plugs for about £150, that was a while ago mind but I cant see it being 4k.
Hope you get it sorted as you need some thing good to happen soon,
Good luck
Jamie
cavebloke said:
This happened to me last weekend. One of the two long bolts which locate the swirl pot on the water pump sheared off at the head. I haven't stripped it down yet to get at it and I should have a decent chunk of it left to play with but I feel your pain.
Oh dear; might I wryly suggest you don't use stud extractors! Sigh.It looks like there is still a little of the broken extractor protruding. You MAY be lucky and be able to puddle-weld a nut over the top of the remains and get the extractor out. Either that or grind the top flat and drill the centre with a diamond drill bit. If you can get what's left of the extractor out, use a metal-cutting drill bit to get as much of the stud out as you can and use a bigger extractor to remove the remains. I use these to remove as much material as possible from a broken fixing:
Other than that, i think it's an engine out and off to an engineer!
Other than that, i think it's an engine out and off to an engineer!
Hi Peter, you will never be able to drill out an extractor, they are that hard and brittle, As I say a friendly engineering place that have a little mechanical knowledge will be able to do it or know someone and it will be cheaper than paying a "specialist" who would probably farm the work out anyway, and then put his bit on top. For 4k you can buy a V8D engine!!.
I know this doesn't help now but for future reference for a stud use 2 nuts and tighten them together and try, then an external extractor as opposed to easy outs (or easy snaps as are referred to occasionally)
and as a last resort WARM not melt the metal around the stud, and try to remove.
I think you have balls anyway for what you have achieved, and what you have attempted with the sheared bolt, you obviously don't give up which is good, its just a shame its happened after a bad run of things.
You should meet up with Peter (phazed and compare notes) but keep all the sharp knives and or petrol at a safe distance
Good luck
Jamie
I know this doesn't help now but for future reference for a stud use 2 nuts and tighten them together and try, then an external extractor as opposed to easy outs (or easy snaps as are referred to occasionally)
and as a last resort WARM not melt the metal around the stud, and try to remove.
I think you have balls anyway for what you have achieved, and what you have attempted with the sheared bolt, you obviously don't give up which is good, its just a shame its happened after a bad run of things.
You should meet up with Peter (phazed and compare notes) but keep all the sharp knives and or petrol at a safe distance
Good luck
Jamie
My best guess would be as suggested "... grind the top flat and drill the centre with a diamond drill bit." but make yourself a make-shift drill rig/guide to keep the bit 90deg to the block & limit the chances of splipping into the block.
Dont exactly know how I would do this & depends upon what you have in the garage. Good luck !!
Dont exactly know how I would do this & depends upon what you have in the garage. Good luck !!
Thanks for all your help, folks. I'm nervous about getting the welder anywhere near it any more and grinding the end of the extractor flat to get it level is a no-go as the angled edge of the extractor itself dips below the block line (I.e, it slopes into the block). I do think you're right in that it needs an engineering company's opinion. How easy is getting the whole lump out of a Griff?
Showed the picture to my soupa welder/metelworker who has all the equipment, he replied similar to others;
"very difficult, may be possible to weld a bolt to the broken bit , this sometimes loosens them and they can be unwound. Depending on the depth of the hole/bolt it may be possible to grind out the broken bits with a diamond burr ,and possibly put a thread insert in, it could be welded and re tapped if necessary. I could proberbly do it ,but i would have to do it here, will all the electrics etc disconnected if i had to weld it".
HTH.
"very difficult, may be possible to weld a bolt to the broken bit , this sometimes loosens them and they can be unwound. Depending on the depth of the hole/bolt it may be possible to grind out the broken bits with a diamond burr ,and possibly put a thread insert in, it could be welded and re tapped if necessary. I could proberbly do it ,but i would have to do it here, will all the electrics etc disconnected if i had to weld it".
HTH.
Some threads make me glad I have a special tool for problems like this. It's called "Mat", it's 6 ft 7 in long and runs its own TVR specialist garage in West Norfolk.
When it came to taking the exhaust manifolds off to weld them I deployed "Mat". One bolt sheared, "Mat" took the heads off and ended sawing 6 more bolts off.
Good luck OP. I realise this doesn't really help. It's just that reading threads like this I sometimes think the we take on too much ourselves with these 10-20 year old pieces of Rover engineering. I admire your courage and enthusiasm. I did change my own otter switch.......and have done my first ever piece of soldering!
When it came to taking the exhaust manifolds off to weld them I deployed "Mat". One bolt sheared, "Mat" took the heads off and ended sawing 6 more bolts off.
Good luck OP. I realise this doesn't really help. It's just that reading threads like this I sometimes think the we take on too much ourselves with these 10-20 year old pieces of Rover engineering. I admire your courage and enthusiasm. I did change my own otter switch.......and have done my first ever piece of soldering!
Just my tuppence-worth. While the ideal might be to weld a nut/bold on to the end of the stud, I've often found that quite difficult with only a small amount of stud/bolt showing (and not the greatest skill with just a MIG welder). I found it easier to progressively weld up a big 'blob' on the end. Because you are just welding new material on the end there's no worry of getting a good join to a separate nut. And you can do it in little bursts at a time so it just builds up on the stud and doesn't weld itself to the block. Then file 2 sides of the blob down to make something a spanner can grip on.
And of course heat the block with a blowtorch or similar within an inch of its life around the stud, and knock ten bells out of the stud down its length with a decent hammer before trying to undo it.
If that won't work then at least the 'blob' at the end can be filed flat and then centre-punched to get a good start to drill it out. No idea though what the presence of the broken extractor will make though.
And of course heat the block with a blowtorch or similar within an inch of its life around the stud, and knock ten bells out of the stud down its length with a decent hammer before trying to undo it.
If that won't work then at least the 'blob' at the end can be filed flat and then centre-punched to get a good start to drill it out. No idea though what the presence of the broken extractor will make though.
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