Cycling on the pavement - again
Discussion
Sorry to bring up a subject that must have been covered a number of times but I am struggling with the whole cycling on the road/pavement argument.
As an adult it is very clear that I should cycle on the road whenever appropriate but much of my cycling is accompanying my 6 yr old boy. Now, there is no way he is going on the road so that leaves me with the choice of cycling with him on the pavement or me going on the road and him going on the pavement. I have found that in practice this last option is pretty much a non-starter as well as there are so many cars parked up by the sides of the road I could go a couple of hundred yards without being in contact with him.
So I cycle on the pavement then with him - most of the time this is not a problem in my town as the pavements are very quiet in my town and pedestrians are infrequent and we barely go above walking speed on our bikes anyway.
Today I got an earful from a lady with a push chair who insisted we should go in the road around her. Apart from the fact that we were not planning on overtaking her anyway as we had to turn in the next 10 yards into a private road, going round her would have meant us cycling into the road with parked cars on either side. I tried to briefly and politely explain that there is no way I would let my 6 yr old onto that road but she did not seem to want to listen. In fact she appeared to be really up for an argument on the matter.
We were turning left anyway so I refused to get drawn and waited till she had moved on her way before we turned.
Am I really in the wrong here? by the strict definition of the law I know I am, but what would you do in my situation?
As an adult it is very clear that I should cycle on the road whenever appropriate but much of my cycling is accompanying my 6 yr old boy. Now, there is no way he is going on the road so that leaves me with the choice of cycling with him on the pavement or me going on the road and him going on the pavement. I have found that in practice this last option is pretty much a non-starter as well as there are so many cars parked up by the sides of the road I could go a couple of hundred yards without being in contact with him.
So I cycle on the pavement then with him - most of the time this is not a problem in my town as the pavements are very quiet in my town and pedestrians are infrequent and we barely go above walking speed on our bikes anyway.
Today I got an earful from a lady with a push chair who insisted we should go in the road around her. Apart from the fact that we were not planning on overtaking her anyway as we had to turn in the next 10 yards into a private road, going round her would have meant us cycling into the road with parked cars on either side. I tried to briefly and politely explain that there is no way I would let my 6 yr old onto that road but she did not seem to want to listen. In fact she appeared to be really up for an argument on the matter.
We were turning left anyway so I refused to get drawn and waited till she had moved on her way before we turned.
Am I really in the wrong here? by the strict definition of the law I know I am, but what would you do in my situation?
Disco You said:
"p
s off you ugly, ignorant witch."
Trouble is she was definitely not ugly!, she had that footballers wives model look about her, you know the type, bugaboo, expensive clothes, sunglasses etc.s off you ugly, ignorant witch."Looking back, she might have been having a bad day or she might have been hit by another cyclist 5 mins earlier I just don't know - I am just not used to being given a mouthful of abuse in front of my son, it was a very odd experience. I suspect I would have reacted differently if it had been a man.
Strictly speaking you should not cycle on the pavement.
Strictly speaking you should not park on double yellow lines.
Strictly speaking you should not drive over the speed limit.
However, none of us are so virtuous that we manage to get from cradle to grave without doing something we are not supposed to.
As far as your indiscretion is concerned my view is you were considerate and careful with pedestrians around you so no harm done. It would be interesting to find out if your angry woman was the only person on earth to be living a sin free life. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but let's put a bit of perspective on things as well!
Let her say her piece, nod politely and move on...
Strictly speaking you should not park on double yellow lines.
Strictly speaking you should not drive over the speed limit.
However, none of us are so virtuous that we manage to get from cradle to grave without doing something we are not supposed to.
As far as your indiscretion is concerned my view is you were considerate and careful with pedestrians around you so no harm done. It would be interesting to find out if your angry woman was the only person on earth to be living a sin free life. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but let's put a bit of perspective on things as well!
Let her say her piece, nod politely and move on...
[
] Wholly opposite to your attitude, OP, is the st I have to put up with locally to me. Arrogant, ignorant idiots on BSOs charging down footways right at pedestrians (me included) because they're too timid to ride with the traffic, but think they're 'well hard' trying to intimidate people going about their lawful business. This might be the issue with your 'milf'. She could have had a bad experience with one of these morons, and consequently wasn't in the mood to take chances with her precious baby. I'd have killed to keep my kids safe when they were young - I probably still would.
I've told myself several times that the next one gets 'clotheslined' but the next one is always some kid who's too young to know better, or some hatchet faced spinster, but I came close in Farnborough town centre today when two two halfwitted 'yoof culture' stereotypes came round a corner (in a pedestrianised/no cycling zone) at speed, split either side of a mobility scooter and almost collided with me on one side, and a mum with two kids in tow on the other. It demonstrates a complete lack of respect for everyone else, and really needs someone to put a stop to it, but the problem will arise when someone other than the 'law' tries to remonstrate with these halfwits, and either they'll get a beating (and the perp will disappear), or they'll be arrested for committing an assault.
The other shocking thing is the number of times a cyclist will tell of a time they were abused by a driver and told to get off the road. Where to? We've been forbidden (by law) from riding on footways since the mid 19th century, and rightly so. The place for a bicycle is on the road, and it shouldn't be the case that you are so afraid for their safety that you feel you cannot let your children learn to ride properly on the roads, even when you are there to supervise them. I wasn't allowed to ride on the road until I'd demonstrated my ability to ride responsibly to my dad, who rode with me and taught me about the highway code and the 'rules of the road'. The loss of this parental guidance is a big part of what is wrong with driving standards these days. Back in the 70s almost every child I knew had a bike, and rode it regularly. That generation, for want of a better phrase, "served their time" as vulnerable road users before being handed the keys to a car. Ever since, and to an extent even back then, those basic building blocks of road skills have been lost, and nowadays most youngsters first foray out onto our roads is in a motor vehicle, with no concept of the vulnerability of cyclists, and therefore no empathy toward them.
I'm not in any way being critical of you, OP, for riding with your son on the footways, and to some extent it's better that you supervise him there until he's ready to move to the road. It's the skewed set of priorities we've allowed to take hold, which has made the roads somewhat less than safe for our kids to ride safely upon. I was abused last year on a family ride out, all three of us on the road, me bringing up the rear in primary position, around a blind right hand bend. I stayed out because I didn't want a car overtaking us, then finding itself going head to head with another car and wiping us out as it returned in haste to the 'correct' side of the road. Cue the blasting of the horn and the elderly couple in the car drawing alongside and hurling foul-mouthed abuse at me for "not riding on the pavement where you're supposed to be" . These were pensioners, FFS, or at least they were nearly there, yet they were getting all 'road rage' on my arse simply because they'd had to wait an extra ten seconds for us to clear the corner. It's no wonder inexperienced 'cyclists' ride on the footway. If they've had no guidance in how to ride safely on carriageways, then they'll feel far more comfortable (and safe) riding on the footway, and may also feel pressurised to ride on pedestrian footpaths. I fear it's too late now to get things back to how they should be, which is why pressure groups are clamouring for more 'traffic free' cycle routes, and segregate paths - because this is the only way most people can feel 'safe', but real cycle safety can only come when we, as cyclists, earn the respect of other road users by following the rules of the road, and by riding on the roads in such numbers that we are viewed as an expected hazard to be planned for, rather than an occasional hindrance to be ignored at best, or abused at worst. The roads (carriageways) of Britain are just as much ours as they are the preserve of the motor vehicle, and the sooner that fact is accepted by drivers (who don't cycle, as opposed to members of this forum group, who are, generally speaking, cyclists who drive) the sooner we'll all be able to live together in relative peace and safety.
[/]
Sorry if this is too much of a TL;DR rant, and a bit of a thread hijack/derailment but as you may be able to tell, I feel quite strongly about this subject.
] Wholly opposite to your attitude, OP, is the st I have to put up with locally to me. Arrogant, ignorant idiots on BSOs charging down footways right at pedestrians (me included) because they're too timid to ride with the traffic, but think they're 'well hard' trying to intimidate people going about their lawful business. This might be the issue with your 'milf'. She could have had a bad experience with one of these morons, and consequently wasn't in the mood to take chances with her precious baby. I'd have killed to keep my kids safe when they were young - I probably still would.I've told myself several times that the next one gets 'clotheslined' but the next one is always some kid who's too young to know better, or some hatchet faced spinster, but I came close in Farnborough town centre today when two two halfwitted 'yoof culture' stereotypes came round a corner (in a pedestrianised/no cycling zone) at speed, split either side of a mobility scooter and almost collided with me on one side, and a mum with two kids in tow on the other. It demonstrates a complete lack of respect for everyone else, and really needs someone to put a stop to it, but the problem will arise when someone other than the 'law' tries to remonstrate with these halfwits, and either they'll get a beating (and the perp will disappear), or they'll be arrested for committing an assault.
The other shocking thing is the number of times a cyclist will tell of a time they were abused by a driver and told to get off the road. Where to? We've been forbidden (by law) from riding on footways since the mid 19th century, and rightly so. The place for a bicycle is on the road, and it shouldn't be the case that you are so afraid for their safety that you feel you cannot let your children learn to ride properly on the roads, even when you are there to supervise them. I wasn't allowed to ride on the road until I'd demonstrated my ability to ride responsibly to my dad, who rode with me and taught me about the highway code and the 'rules of the road'. The loss of this parental guidance is a big part of what is wrong with driving standards these days. Back in the 70s almost every child I knew had a bike, and rode it regularly. That generation, for want of a better phrase, "served their time" as vulnerable road users before being handed the keys to a car. Ever since, and to an extent even back then, those basic building blocks of road skills have been lost, and nowadays most youngsters first foray out onto our roads is in a motor vehicle, with no concept of the vulnerability of cyclists, and therefore no empathy toward them.
I'm not in any way being critical of you, OP, for riding with your son on the footways, and to some extent it's better that you supervise him there until he's ready to move to the road. It's the skewed set of priorities we've allowed to take hold, which has made the roads somewhat less than safe for our kids to ride safely upon. I was abused last year on a family ride out, all three of us on the road, me bringing up the rear in primary position, around a blind right hand bend. I stayed out because I didn't want a car overtaking us, then finding itself going head to head with another car and wiping us out as it returned in haste to the 'correct' side of the road. Cue the blasting of the horn and the elderly couple in the car drawing alongside and hurling foul-mouthed abuse at me for "not riding on the pavement where you're supposed to be" . These were pensioners, FFS, or at least they were nearly there, yet they were getting all 'road rage' on my arse simply because they'd had to wait an extra ten seconds for us to clear the corner. It's no wonder inexperienced 'cyclists' ride on the footway. If they've had no guidance in how to ride safely on carriageways, then they'll feel far more comfortable (and safe) riding on the footway, and may also feel pressurised to ride on pedestrian footpaths. I fear it's too late now to get things back to how they should be, which is why pressure groups are clamouring for more 'traffic free' cycle routes, and segregate paths - because this is the only way most people can feel 'safe', but real cycle safety can only come when we, as cyclists, earn the respect of other road users by following the rules of the road, and by riding on the roads in such numbers that we are viewed as an expected hazard to be planned for, rather than an occasional hindrance to be ignored at best, or abused at worst. The roads (carriageways) of Britain are just as much ours as they are the preserve of the motor vehicle, and the sooner that fact is accepted by drivers (who don't cycle, as opposed to members of this forum group, who are, generally speaking, cyclists who drive) the sooner we'll all be able to live together in relative peace and safety.
[/
]Sorry if this is too much of a TL;DR rant, and a bit of a thread hijack/derailment but as you may be able to tell, I feel quite strongly about this subject.
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