Going tubular?
Discussion
I fancy some new wheels for my new Foil. Some moderately (50mm) would be perfect for the type of riding it'll do. I have some SRAm S30s on it presently which are great and really light but the tart in me wants something deeper.
So, always run clinchers but for that sort of wheel tubs are typically a lot lighter. A mate who has cycled at a high level for years swears by them, only resorting to clinchers for deep winter. He claims that swapping in the event if a flat is not significantly more difficult than a clincher.
So, should I go to tubs for these wheels or stick with clinchers? Any advice (borne if a actual experience) greatly received.
So, always run clinchers but for that sort of wheel tubs are typically a lot lighter. A mate who has cycled at a high level for years swears by them, only resorting to clinchers for deep winter. He claims that swapping in the event if a flat is not significantly more difficult than a clincher.
So, should I go to tubs for these wheels or stick with clinchers? Any advice (borne if a actual experience) greatly received.
I have a set of carbon tubular wheels, and this summer I've been riding on them quite a lot, rather than keeping them for high days and holidays.
For general riding and Strava KOM-hunting the tyres aren't the issue - I carry a spare tub and when I've had to use it there's been enough tack left on the rim to hold it on - the issue is that a carbon braking surface isn't great at the best of times: and in the wet it's properly rubbish.
It may just be me, but out riding with a group of mates on narrow country lanes I use the brakes quite a bit, and it gets irritating: my next wheels will be clinchers with a 40-60mm fairing and an alloy braking surface, probably RS80s.
For general riding and Strava KOM-hunting the tyres aren't the issue - I carry a spare tub and when I've had to use it there's been enough tack left on the rim to hold it on - the issue is that a carbon braking surface isn't great at the best of times: and in the wet it's properly rubbish.
It may just be me, but out riding with a group of mates on narrow country lanes I use the brakes quite a bit, and it gets irritating: my next wheels will be clinchers with a 40-60mm fairing and an alloy braking surface, probably RS80s.
The lighter thing is true, but not quite to the extent that most believe, because tubular tyres are often heavier than super light tube and light clincher tyre combo. But yes, they are generally lighter, but they're unlikely to be slowing you down to any real effect, I have won plenty of TT's on clinchers.
While changing them isn't all that difficult, its not cheap, and you never know when a rogue stone may write off a tub where a clincher would still be OK, this could happen on your first ride, £40 is a lot of money to shell out for something common like a puncture.
As with most things cycling there is a lot of old school b
ks out there, and tyres are one of the worst culprits, many people at the top end of cycling at amateur level (i.e. where they're not sponsored and have a following team car) use clinchers to no ill effect.
While changing them isn't all that difficult, its not cheap, and you never know when a rogue stone may write off a tub where a clincher would still be OK, this could happen on your first ride, £40 is a lot of money to shell out for something common like a puncture.
As with most things cycling there is a lot of old school b
ks out there, and tyres are one of the worst culprits, many people at the top end of cycling at amateur level (i.e. where they're not sponsored and have a following team car) use clinchers to no ill effect.I've been running a pair of 50mm carbon tubular wheels for just over a month now. The rims are Gigantex, tubs are Schwalbe Ultremo HTs. I reckon I've done around 600 miles on them in a variety of conditions, including the new forest rattler 102 mile sportive yesterday. In short, I love them! The ride quality is amazing, they're light, stiff and fast.
I have to say that I've not experienced the braking issues associated with carbon wheels at all. Having said that, I'm not a big descender. Even so, during normal use in wet and dry conditions, I've not noticed any reduced performance compared to the aluminium track on my old Mavic Aksiums.
The only downside for me is having to lug a spare tub around in my jersey. You also have to check and put a bit of air in the tyres before every ride as tubs are prone to losing a bit.
I have to say that I've not experienced the braking issues associated with carbon wheels at all. Having said that, I'm not a big descender. Even so, during normal use in wet and dry conditions, I've not noticed any reduced performance compared to the aluminium track on my old Mavic Aksiums.
The only downside for me is having to lug a spare tub around in my jersey. You also have to check and put a bit of air in the tyres before every ride as tubs are prone to losing a bit.
I've used tubs for the best part of 1000 miles now. Had one puncture and that was largely down to the tyre been totally worn out. I used Tufo sealant and continued to use the tub for a further 3 weeks.
I've a friend who has run his Chinese import wheels on cheapo tubs for 3 or 4 years. He swears by them.
Changing them isn't that difficult. But at the side of the road I think the sealant is a better option.
Tyres can be fairly cheap. Mine are Tufo S3pros and cost £20. They weigh 260g. Try to match that with a tyre and tube for anything like £20.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/tufo-s33-pro-tubular-tyre/
I have the above tyres on my Planet x 50mm wheels. Total weight just under 2kg. Total cost £440.
Braking wise they were terrible with the cheap pads I initially had. I swapped them to Rynolds Blue and it's made a big difference. I can easily stand the bike on the front wheel. In the wet it's not so good though.
Cant really say if the aero profiles make a huge difference. The TT boys will tell you that. But the weight reduction is definitely noticeable. (and the look cool too!
)
I've a friend who has run his Chinese import wheels on cheapo tubs for 3 or 4 years. He swears by them.
Changing them isn't that difficult. But at the side of the road I think the sealant is a better option.
Tyres can be fairly cheap. Mine are Tufo S3pros and cost £20. They weigh 260g. Try to match that with a tyre and tube for anything like £20.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/tufo-s33-pro-tubular-tyre/
I have the above tyres on my Planet x 50mm wheels. Total weight just under 2kg. Total cost £440.
Braking wise they were terrible with the cheap pads I initially had. I swapped them to Rynolds Blue and it's made a big difference. I can easily stand the bike on the front wheel. In the wet it's not so good though.
Cant really say if the aero profiles make a huge difference. The TT boys will tell you that. But the weight reduction is definitely noticeable. (and the look cool too!
)Will add to this as I'm now on my second summer on tubs (Zipp 303 glued with Veloflex Carbon). I ride in Oxfordshire so the terrain is varied between pan flat and windy, or hilly (Chilterns/Ridgeway)
Pro's
1) Super light- my pair came in at 1154g and the tyres were 490g the pair, acceleration in sprints and out of corners feels effortless, great in the hills
2) Hold their speed very easily on the flat
3) No more affected by crosswinds than my Mavic Ksyrium Elites
4) Ride comfort is excellent - better plusher than my equivalent Veloflex clinchers with latex tubes
5) No chance of pinch punctures if you inadvertently hit a pothole
6) If you have a blow out, you will be able to stop safely rather than (likely) crash
Cons
1) Carbon braking surface is not as good as alu. Rubber pad compounds such as SwissStop Yellow are quite grabby in the dry, I use cork pads which give much better modulation. Care needs to be taken in the wet, especially in close group riding.
2) Swapping between clinchers and tubs on the same bike can be a pain, due to the rim widths the brakes and pads need adjusting, as well as swapping pads themselves
3) If you have a double puncture you're pretty much stuffed if it can't be repaired with a sealant (and if you use sealant to get you home the puncture can't be repaired so you have effectively written off the tyre)
4) I don't use them in the winter, I'm sure you can - but the risk of punctures is greater in the wet so they are not an ideal year-round prospect for me
Pro's
1) Super light- my pair came in at 1154g and the tyres were 490g the pair, acceleration in sprints and out of corners feels effortless, great in the hills
2) Hold their speed very easily on the flat
3) No more affected by crosswinds than my Mavic Ksyrium Elites
4) Ride comfort is excellent - better plusher than my equivalent Veloflex clinchers with latex tubes
5) No chance of pinch punctures if you inadvertently hit a pothole
6) If you have a blow out, you will be able to stop safely rather than (likely) crash
Cons
1) Carbon braking surface is not as good as alu. Rubber pad compounds such as SwissStop Yellow are quite grabby in the dry, I use cork pads which give much better modulation. Care needs to be taken in the wet, especially in close group riding.
2) Swapping between clinchers and tubs on the same bike can be a pain, due to the rim widths the brakes and pads need adjusting, as well as swapping pads themselves
3) If you have a double puncture you're pretty much stuffed if it can't be repaired with a sealant (and if you use sealant to get you home the puncture can't be repaired so you have effectively written off the tyre)
4) I don't use them in the winter, I'm sure you can - but the risk of punctures is greater in the wet so they are not an ideal year-round prospect for me
A friend has been trying some Veloflex Corsa open tubulars with latex tubes. Aparently they give you most of the lightness and feel of a tubular but without the need for glue. You can also obviously fix a punture with your existing repair kit or spare tube solution.
He's been very happy with them.
He's been very happy with them.
donfisher said:
Aparently they give you most of the lightness and feel of a tubular but without the need for glue.
They are light tyres, and get you some of the ride comfort, but it's still not close to the plushness of a tub. The extra weight of clincher wheels is found in the bead used to hook the tyre on. Changing tyres isn't going to help that.
A mate of mine had a puncture on tubs a few months back ... we were only 12 miles from home but no phone signal for 3 miles so for practical reasons, I wouldn't go down that route unless I had a support vehicle (unlikely!).
He even had to get his father in law to take a spare tub around in his car whilst he did a sportive recently.
He even had to get his father in law to take a spare tub around in his car whilst he did a sportive recently.
JEA1K said:
A mate of mine had a puncture on tubs a few months back ... we were only 12 miles from home but no phone signal for 3 miles so for practical reasons, I wouldn't go down that route unless I had a support vehicle (unlikely!).
He even had to get his father in law to take a spare tub around in his car whilst he did a sportive recently.
His fault for not being able or willing to carry a spare pre-glued tyreHe even had to get his father in law to take a spare tub around in his car whilst he did a sportive recently.
itsnotarace said:
JEA1K said:
A mate of mine had a puncture on tubs a few months back ... we were only 12 miles from home but no phone signal for 3 miles so for practical reasons, I wouldn't go down that route unless I had a support vehicle (unlikely!).
He even had to get his father in law to take a spare tub around in his car whilst he did a sportive recently.
His fault for not being able or willing to carry a spare pre-glued tyreHe even had to get his father in law to take a spare tub around in his car whilst he did a sportive recently.
I'd only use them for racing personally.
They do give a wonderful ride, but you really need one or ideally, two spare tubs strapped under your saddle wherever you go and once swapped it's sensible to curtail your ride and head for home.
Puncturing gets pricey and repairing them (if they are repairable) is time consuming and tedious.
Decathlon sell Vittorias for a decent price if you do go that route.
They do give a wonderful ride, but you really need one or ideally, two spare tubs strapped under your saddle wherever you go and once swapped it's sensible to curtail your ride and head for home.
Puncturing gets pricey and repairing them (if they are repairable) is time consuming and tedious.
Decathlon sell Vittorias for a decent price if you do go that route.
agentnomad said:
How much does 3 tubs weigh 2 on the wheels and one under the saddle as a spare
How much does 2 clinchers and 3 tubes weigh of similar quality
I have had 3 tube punctures this year on an outdoor tarmac track at £30 a time it starts to hurt especially as one was a training session.
Rotational mass...How much does 2 clinchers and 3 tubes weigh of similar quality
I have had 3 tube punctures this year on an outdoor tarmac track at £30 a time it starts to hurt especially as one was a training session.
okgo said:
The lighter thing is true, but not quite to the extent that most believe, because tubular tyres are often heavier than super light tube and light clincher tyre combo. But yes, they are generally lighter, but they're unlikely to be slowing you down to any real effect, I have won plenty of TT's on clinchers.
While changing them isn't all that difficult, its not cheap, and you never know when a rogue stone may write off a tub where a clincher would still be OK, this could happen on your first ride, £40 is a lot of money to shell out for something common like a puncture.
As with most things cycling there is a lot of old school bks out there, and tyres are one of the worst culprits, many people at the top end of cycling at amateur level (i.e. where they're not sponsored and have a following team car) use clinchers to no ill effect.
Tony Martin runs clinchers through choice, IIRC.While changing them isn't all that difficult, its not cheap, and you never know when a rogue stone may write off a tub where a clincher would still be OK, this could happen on your first ride, £40 is a lot of money to shell out for something common like a puncture.
As with most things cycling there is a lot of old school b
ks out there, and tyres are one of the worst culprits, many people at the top end of cycling at amateur level (i.e. where they're not sponsored and have a following team car) use clinchers to no ill effect.Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff