So apparently I prefer easy work...
Discussion
So I work in a support-type environment in IT.
I had my review recently, which went well. I did ask for more tehcnical work. This review was with my team lead (or now new manager). My manager before this is now my manager's manager.
One issue came up wherby I apparently shy away from hard cases. An example was a case for a very old system, which I had no experience with at all (Both with the client and with the underlying technologies). I escalated this to my senior colleagues, who said the task could not be done and so it went back to my manager who informed the client.
So a few weeks later, I take leave for a week. In that period, the client tells my manager that they have paid for the work so it must get done. The same work goes back to my senior colleague, who this time gets it done (albeit with some pressure, which may have lacked first time round). If it was me, it probably wouldn't get done for factors like experience with the technology (which is old and hardly used) and experience/knowledge of the client's system.
So anyway, apparently my manager's manager says that I shy away from technical work, which is hardly the case. I probably do much more complex stuff in my private time (even if it is not "commercial experience"). I am not sure if my manager's manager is aware of the above situation, which was a small thing in hindsight. My manager's manager is someone who cannot reply to my emails (even his manager, the director, does) and organised a team meeting for the first time a year, and also takes no interest in his team and their skills (and at a personal level with me).
I used to be late to work, if my manager said "Oh that guy is always late" that would be fair enough, but this is a bit untrue.
An example which was stated to me (my other colleague told me all this, not sure if this is my colleague's opinion or shared):
You've been working on system x for 6 months now, and you still can't figure it out.
At a high level, that may sound acceptable, but I retort with:
Well firstly, if I have had cases for client x in my queue for 6 months, that does not mean I have been working on it for the last 6 months. Cases can be my queue but can go days in between with no action. In addition, this particular system is highly code driven, with no comments in the code or other documentation, and no handover whatsoever. Just like if we build a system fo a client, we have to do a "handover" to them to help them use it. It's unreasonable to expect me to master this system without that, and when I work on it sparingly. If there are 4 buttons in the system, and my cases are around 1 of those butons [cases can be on just a specific subset of the system] then I will never get a chance to pick up the rest of the system, and even more so when I am not on this 24/7 - the are other systems the client has which require support".
Yes, the was never any handover, and I keep raising this with my immediate manager as it is a major impediment in my ability to do the work. My manager just says "Oh x person who made this system is too expensive" yet she also says "the client is very profitable". Getting a thorough handover and spending £10k on the resource would probably help us to keep the client who we are at risk of losing, rather than losing 100k in total on a support contract (where I can't even fulfill half the cases). My manager also says give the cases to my senior colleague (as mentioned earlier), who is too busy anyway, and doesn't agree to a case swap.
Is any of this reasonable at all? I have done everything to flag these issues up.
I had my review recently, which went well. I did ask for more tehcnical work. This review was with my team lead (or now new manager). My manager before this is now my manager's manager.
One issue came up wherby I apparently shy away from hard cases. An example was a case for a very old system, which I had no experience with at all (Both with the client and with the underlying technologies). I escalated this to my senior colleagues, who said the task could not be done and so it went back to my manager who informed the client.
So a few weeks later, I take leave for a week. In that period, the client tells my manager that they have paid for the work so it must get done. The same work goes back to my senior colleague, who this time gets it done (albeit with some pressure, which may have lacked first time round). If it was me, it probably wouldn't get done for factors like experience with the technology (which is old and hardly used) and experience/knowledge of the client's system.
So anyway, apparently my manager's manager says that I shy away from technical work, which is hardly the case. I probably do much more complex stuff in my private time (even if it is not "commercial experience"). I am not sure if my manager's manager is aware of the above situation, which was a small thing in hindsight. My manager's manager is someone who cannot reply to my emails (even his manager, the director, does) and organised a team meeting for the first time a year, and also takes no interest in his team and their skills (and at a personal level with me).
I used to be late to work, if my manager said "Oh that guy is always late" that would be fair enough, but this is a bit untrue.
An example which was stated to me (my other colleague told me all this, not sure if this is my colleague's opinion or shared):
You've been working on system x for 6 months now, and you still can't figure it out.
At a high level, that may sound acceptable, but I retort with:
Well firstly, if I have had cases for client x in my queue for 6 months, that does not mean I have been working on it for the last 6 months. Cases can be my queue but can go days in between with no action. In addition, this particular system is highly code driven, with no comments in the code or other documentation, and no handover whatsoever. Just like if we build a system fo a client, we have to do a "handover" to them to help them use it. It's unreasonable to expect me to master this system without that, and when I work on it sparingly. If there are 4 buttons in the system, and my cases are around 1 of those butons [cases can be on just a specific subset of the system] then I will never get a chance to pick up the rest of the system, and even more so when I am not on this 24/7 - the are other systems the client has which require support".
Yes, the was never any handover, and I keep raising this with my immediate manager as it is a major impediment in my ability to do the work. My manager just says "Oh x person who made this system is too expensive" yet she also says "the client is very profitable". Getting a thorough handover and spending £10k on the resource would probably help us to keep the client who we are at risk of losing, rather than losing 100k in total on a support contract (where I can't even fulfill half the cases). My manager also says give the cases to my senior colleague (as mentioned earlier), who is too busy anyway, and doesn't agree to a case swap.
Is any of this reasonable at all? I have done everything to flag these issues up.
Whilst this has clearly caused you some angst, it's probably a storm in a teacup.
We all are keen on maintaining our own reputation and events such as this can upset us. Time for a little reflection to ask could they be right? Have I done enough? Am I seeing myself as others see me or as I see me. Even if they're wrong, what can I now do to improve my reputation in terms of going the extra mile, taking on a challenging job and giving it my best shot.
At best, just get on with your job and give the impression of a hardworking committed employee and time will make you feel better and the flak will probably switch to someone else. At worst, if the leadership skills of those privileged to lead you are wanting and creating a negative culture, move employment.
Good luck!
We all are keen on maintaining our own reputation and events such as this can upset us. Time for a little reflection to ask could they be right? Have I done enough? Am I seeing myself as others see me or as I see me. Even if they're wrong, what can I now do to improve my reputation in terms of going the extra mile, taking on a challenging job and giving it my best shot.
At best, just get on with your job and give the impression of a hardworking committed employee and time will make you feel better and the flak will probably switch to someone else. At worst, if the leadership skills of those privileged to lead you are wanting and creating a negative culture, move employment.
Good luck!
What I look for in support people are the ones who will own an issue, the ones who will see it as up to them to find a resolution regardless of what it is. What doesn't work for me are people who blame others for lack of handover or lack of anything else. I don't want someone who thinks that there are problems they can't solve.
They need to go at it knowing they can find the solution, the only issue is how long it will take. They need to go to others to ask them to help them solve the problem, not trying to get them to look at it for them. Of course the process may be that at a point they should hand it over, but that is something that they would look at as negative - not a failure, but a situation they wanted to avoid.
I'm not sure that you come over as someone like that.
They need to go at it knowing they can find the solution, the only issue is how long it will take. They need to go to others to ask them to help them solve the problem, not trying to get them to look at it for them. Of course the process may be that at a point they should hand it over, but that is something that they would look at as negative - not a failure, but a situation they wanted to avoid.
I'm not sure that you come over as someone like that.
Siscar said:
What I look for in support people are the ones who will own an issue, the ones who will see it as up to them to find a resolution regardless of what it is. What doesn't work for me are people who blame others for lack of handover or lack of anything else. I don't want someone who thinks that there are problems they can't solve.
I'm 6 weeks into a contract as a Senior Engineer (BAU Issues in IT support). Basically since I walked in the door, I have been thrown problems (generally not incidents). I own them, find the root cause and implement the change.Am I more capable than most of the people on my team? No, I may have more general experience than the rest, I am also just more fortunate that I don't get bogged down I the day to day support. Generally, I choose my customer for the day(s), do feel guilty not dealing with incidents and try to get a few of the boring, quick to fix ones off the queue to help the team out.
What I have observed is poor handover, pilot systems that magically morph into production with zero handover and documentation. Projects that have so much out of scope "lets put a new SAN in with 4x the capacity, but any extra backup devices are out of scope" type projects.
Its not "a problem I can't solve" its that the problem will take a long time to solve, as there is insufficient documentation to allow a support guy a fair crack at it and usually insufficient time to fix it in.
I am fortunate to have a boss that understands that.
Siscar said:
What I look for in support people are the ones who will own an issue, the ones who will see it as up to them to find a resolution regardless of what it is. What doesn't work for me are people who blame others for lack of handover or lack of anything else. I don't want someone who thinks that there are problems they can't solve.
They need to go at it knowing they can find the solution, the only issue is how long it will take. They need to go to others to ask them to help them solve the problem, not trying to get them to look at it for them. Of course the process may be that at a point they should hand it over, but that is something that they would look at as negative - not a failure, but a situation they wanted to avoid.
I'm not sure that you come over as someone like that.
Erm, no. They need to go at it knowing they can find the solution, the only issue is how long it will take. They need to go to others to ask them to help them solve the problem, not trying to get them to look at it for them. Of course the process may be that at a point they should hand it over, but that is something that they would look at as negative - not a failure, but a situation they wanted to avoid.
I'm not sure that you come over as someone like that.
Firstly, I have never handed this case to anyone, I have reminded in physical control (i.e. me going on the system to work out how to do xyz).
By escalate, I mean get advice from others, not hand the work over. I had leave coming up, so the work (along with everything else) got re assigned.
I gave realistic estimates (after stating I will do an initial investigation with my colleagues).
How can a lack of handover be an excuse? So if the handover includes account passwords, and I get no handover, is that some sort of excuse? I don't how you think you can be effective without having any handover on the system.
Take this scenario: the handover includes information on the requirements of the system. Without this, I work on fixing a bug in a particular feature. And then I inadvertently modify the functionality of an intended, yet intricate, technical/business requirement. So handover is still an excuse, right?
Honestly, you sound like a nightmare.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I have read a number of your posts over the last couple of years/several months related to work. The underlying theme seems to be a mismatch between your expectation and the management/business perception of you.
As an outsider, a manager and working in HR, you need to close this gap as it could hold you back career wise. You sound like somebody who could benefit from some coaching or mentoring.
As an outsider, a manager and working in HR, you need to close this gap as it could hold you back career wise. You sound like somebody who could benefit from some coaching or mentoring.
Z064life said:
Honestly, you sound like a nightmare.
Yet you are the one with the problem. Your employer doesn't seem to rate you very highly and reading what you write I can see why.
You can listen and learn from what you are being told or you can decide that you know better, it's your choice and only you who will suffer from making the wrong call on that one.
Bluntly, you need to stop making excuses. Nobody cares about the details of who said what or did what or didn't do the other; the bald fact is that is is perceived that you have a problem. If it is perceived that you have a problem, then regardless of your opinion, you genuinely do have a problem.
It's up to you how you respond, but to go in bleating about how you've been misrepresented and it's so unfair (as that what is coming across right now) is unlikely to go down well. You need to understand why you are perceived as only taking easy work, and then take steps to make sure that it doesn't happen in future. Fundamentally it's all a game, and you need to work out the rules and make them work to your advantage. Either that or leave - or sit there complaining and get nowhere. I would suggest only two of those options are compatible with having a productive career and an enjoyable working life.
It's up to you how you respond, but to go in bleating about how you've been misrepresented and it's so unfair (as that what is coming across right now) is unlikely to go down well. You need to understand why you are perceived as only taking easy work, and then take steps to make sure that it doesn't happen in future. Fundamentally it's all a game, and you need to work out the rules and make them work to your advantage. Either that or leave - or sit there complaining and get nowhere. I would suggest only two of those options are compatible with having a productive career and an enjoyable working life.
deckster said:
Bluntly, you need to stop making excuses. Nobody cares about the details of who said what or did what or didn't do the other; the bald fact is that is is perceived that you have a problem. If it is perceived that you have a problem, then regardless of your opinion, you genuinely do have a problem.
It's up to you how you respond, but to go in bleating about how you've been misrepresented and it's so unfair (as that what is coming across right now) is unlikely to go down well. You need to understand why you are perceived as only taking easy work, and then take steps to make sure that it doesn't happen in future. Fundamentally it's all a game, and you need to work out the rules and make them work to your advantage. Either that or leave - or sit there complaining and get nowhere. I would suggest only two of those options are compatible with having a productive career and an enjoyable working life.
Good pointsIt's up to you how you respond, but to go in bleating about how you've been misrepresented and it's so unfair (as that what is coming across right now) is unlikely to go down well. You need to understand why you are perceived as only taking easy work, and then take steps to make sure that it doesn't happen in future. Fundamentally it's all a game, and you need to work out the rules and make them work to your advantage. Either that or leave - or sit there complaining and get nowhere. I would suggest only two of those options are compatible with having a productive career and an enjoyable working life.
edc said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but I have read a number of your posts over the last couple of years/several months related to work. The underlying theme seems to be a mismatch between your expectation and the management/business perception of you.
Agreed. From the "sigh" at being given an objective to pass an exam with study in your own time when you started, through the various issues you have been having with your managers, to the difference in how you and your peers/managers perceive your ability, and the fact that you wanted a colleague to write your last reference instead of your line manager. You are throwing up red flags left, right and center.If you conclude work in the same way you conclude threads when you ask for help and advice I can see why your managers have issues with you.
P.S. Stop typing "said". It doesn't make you sound intelligent.
Edited by stevenjhepburn on Friday 9th August 17:07
stevenjhepburn said:
edc said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but I have read a number of your posts over the last couple of years/several months related to work. The underlying theme seems to be a mismatch between your expectation and the management/business perception of you.
Agreed. From the "sigh" at being given an objective to pass an exam with study in your own time when you started, through the various issues you have been having with your managers, to the difference in how you and your peers/managers perceive your ability, and the fact that you wanted a colleague to write your last reference instead of your line manager. You are throwing up red flags left, right and center.If you conclude work in the same way you conclude threads when you ask for help and advice I can see why your managers have issues with you.
P.S. Stop typing "said". It doesn't make you sound intelligent.
Edited by stevenjhepburn on Friday 9th August 17:07
The incident with the laptop was (among other things) particularly farcical - OP leaves laptop on his desk - and someone takes that laptop from the desk when OP was not there - and OP was getting the blame for it - yet from what I recall - other people in the company were aware that the laptop had been removed from the desk without OPs knowledge.
OP - id call it a day with this company and try and get a fresh start and new beginnings elsewhere
I don't work in IT, but let me tell you a story.
A month or two after I started working at my current company, my boss was moaning about the hideously complicated SQL database/Excel macro mashup we use to drag information out of our legacy ERP to make export paperwork for our shipments. Business practices had changed but the software hadn't, and so we had to make a lot of manual adjustments. She asked me if I could "fix" it.
Now, bearing in mind my total experience of basic is
10 PRINT "HELLO"
20 GOTO 10
I waded in. There are I think around 5,000 lines of code, so not a big job, but it's not commented at all. I didn't even know it was using an SQL database when I started.
After about a month of working on it in spare moments in between doing my actual job, I managed to get it do do what it was supposed to do. My boss was really rather happy about that.
To be able to do that particular bit of work I had to learn an awful lot of VBA, along with a lot of really nasty excel formulas, supporting a couple of different versions of excel. I did not say "it's too hard", because I knew that while it was difficult, it was by no means impossible, and if I did manage to fix it I'd go up in the estimation of a lot of people.
It seems as though through a combination of other people, and your own actions, you have become a bit of a problem worker. It's likely a perception issue, but I really would recommend jumping ship before they decide it's time to manage you out of the business.
A month or two after I started working at my current company, my boss was moaning about the hideously complicated SQL database/Excel macro mashup we use to drag information out of our legacy ERP to make export paperwork for our shipments. Business practices had changed but the software hadn't, and so we had to make a lot of manual adjustments. She asked me if I could "fix" it.
Now, bearing in mind my total experience of basic is
10 PRINT "HELLO"
20 GOTO 10
I waded in. There are I think around 5,000 lines of code, so not a big job, but it's not commented at all. I didn't even know it was using an SQL database when I started.
After about a month of working on it in spare moments in between doing my actual job, I managed to get it do do what it was supposed to do. My boss was really rather happy about that.
To be able to do that particular bit of work I had to learn an awful lot of VBA, along with a lot of really nasty excel formulas, supporting a couple of different versions of excel. I did not say "it's too hard", because I knew that while it was difficult, it was by no means impossible, and if I did manage to fix it I'd go up in the estimation of a lot of people.
It seems as though through a combination of other people, and your own actions, you have become a bit of a problem worker. It's likely a perception issue, but I really would recommend jumping ship before they decide it's time to manage you out of the business.
Sir Fergie said:
The incident with the laptop was (among other things) particularly farcical - OP leaves laptop on his desk - and someone takes that laptop from the desk when OP was not there - and OP was getting the blame for it - yet from what I recall - other people in the company were aware that the laptop had been removed from the desk without OPs knowledge.
The laptop thread is a prime example. He puts the blame everywhere else except on himself. Why did he even still have the laptop if it was only temporary until he had a desktop? The post was unclear about what the actual issue was - if he was being held liable for the lost laptop or just having a moan. He never responded to any of the follow up questions and the internet still doesn't know if the laptop was ever found.stevenjhepburn said:
The laptop thread is a prime example. He puts the blame everywhere else except on himself. Why did he even still have the laptop if it was only temporary until he had a desktop? The post was unclear about what the actual issue was - if he was being held liable for the lost laptop or just having a moan. He never responded to any of the follow up questions and the internet still doesn't know if the laptop was ever found.
Fair points - thing is though - its hard to actually establish whats going on with the OP and his work - it seems far too easy to assume its all OPs fault that hes having issues at work.Probably best for him to move on from this job - put it all down to experience and try and re establish himself elsewhere. Its all too easy to get stuck in a rut that's impossible to get out of.
Hopefully a new job or career elsewhere will help OP get his enthusiasm for work back - and he will be able to drive on to better things elsewhere.
Best of luck either way OP.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff