Countersteering..
Discussion
I started trying it today,not because I had to,but just out of curiosity and have to say it was a little confusing after a few corners,but gradually got better and better,and I feel like its going to be a general part of riding a bike for me.
I always thought it may be a subconcious thing all bikers do,but after purposely going round a fast corner and choosing to countersteer,I found an improvement in my control/speed/grip etc.., was shi**in myself , but I'm thinking it may be an improvement in riding style ?
From the more experienced riders here,what's the pro's n cons,do you do it,why do you do it,when woudn't you do it, whats your general views etc..
cheers,
Wayne.
I always thought it may be a subconcious thing all bikers do,but after purposely going round a fast corner and choosing to countersteer,I found an improvement in my control/speed/grip etc.., was shi**in myself , but I'm thinking it may be an improvement in riding style ?
From the more experienced riders here,what's the pro's n cons,do you do it,why do you do it,when woudn't you do it, whats your general views etc..
cheers,
Wayne.
started countersteering out of nesecuty at a track day at donnington.(going into the foggy esses)
Basicaly its the only way I can get teh bike to change direction fast. It dosnt come easy but the more you do it the more natural it feels.
I seem to have to learn how to do it again if I havn't been on teh bike for a while
>> Edited by pesty on Monday 18th October 18:40
Basicaly its the only way I can get teh bike to change direction fast. It dosnt come easy but the more you do it the more natural it feels.
I seem to have to learn how to do it again if I havn't been on teh bike for a while
>> Edited by pesty on Monday 18th October 18:40
ATG said:
Please explain technique to interested non-biker ... (is it similar to bicycle pothole dodging trick of initially steering the wrong way to get the bike to lean over pronto then turning in sharply to avoid face/pavement encounters?)
You got it. Motorbikes are slower to turn though but more progressive, so only steer correct way when exiting a corner.
As a teenager on a push bike it is natral to do. Didnt know it name,
driller said:
I didn't think there was any other way to steer a bike? You try to steer in the direction of the corner at anything higher than 10MPH you'll end up in a hedge
yes this is probably correct. I was probably already doing it to a certain extent without realising.
There is a difference however to that and forcibly and knowingly doing it. well there was for me anyway.
usualy happens for me in those F**k me kind of situations
or playimg on roundaboutsTry one of two things:
Sit astride a stationary bicycle, lean to one direction, you'll notice the handlebars want to "tuck-in", so the only way of keeping them relatively straight is to push on the lower bar.
Alternatively, find a quite stretch of road, ride along at about 10-15mph; using one hand ease pressure forward, i.e. push on one bar; it'll lean in the direction against you're pushing; in essence you're pushing against the direction the power, i.e. the rear wheel wants to go, if you steer into it, the front wheel will tighten it's line and tuck in, causing a high-side
Sit astride a stationary bicycle, lean to one direction, you'll notice the handlebars want to "tuck-in", so the only way of keeping them relatively straight is to push on the lower bar.
Alternatively, find a quite stretch of road, ride along at about 10-15mph; using one hand ease pressure forward, i.e. push on one bar; it'll lean in the direction against you're pushing; in essence you're pushing against the direction the power, i.e. the rear wheel wants to go, if you steer into it, the front wheel will tighten it's line and tuck in, causing a high-side
ATG has pretty much hit the nail on the head. There's some jolly good stuff on how bikes balance, steer etc. at www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/index.htm
Like others I thought it was the only way to turn a ‘big’ bike. I learnt the hard way. Picked up my first big bike after my RXS100 (man I loved that mean machine!). Came to the very first corner (after a 30MPH limit), a nice sweeping left hander. I ended up on the other side of the road (thankfully no cars were coming the other way!), cause it wouldn’t turn like the RXS used to.
Then I read about counter steering. I love the force at which you can pull/push on the bars and make the bike change direction. Awesome..!
jj
Then I read about counter steering. I love the force at which you can pull/push on the bars and make the bike change direction. Awesome..!
jj
On a push bike you can steer the bike just by leaning into a corner when you are riding "no hands". Coz the front wheel is behaving like a gyro, when you lean, you roll the front wheel onto its side, and the gyro effect makes it yaw, i.e. it turns the handlebars in the direction you are leaning. Does this not work at all on a motorbike?
>> Edited by ATG on Tuesday 19th October 18:01
>> Edited by ATG on Tuesday 19th October 18:01
ATG said:But if you think about it, if you lean left then the handlebars turn in the opposite direction slightly. It's called gyroscopic procession.
On a push bike you can steer the bike just by leaning into a corner when you are riding "no hands". Coz the front wheel is behaving like a gyro, when you lean, you roll the front wheel onto its side, and the gyro effect makes it yaw, i.e. it turns the handlebars in the direction you are leaning. Does this not work at all on a motorbike?
>> Edited by ATG on Tuesday 19th October 18:01
rsvmilly said:
But if you think about it, if you lean left then the handlebars turn in the opposite direction slightly. It's called gyroscopic procession.
Not quite true ... if you turn a spinning wheel to the left, it tilts to the right ... but if you tilt a wheel to the left it turns to the left. There's no contradiction here; I'm not sure this mental picture necessarily helps, but turning the wheel to the left is like leaning the wheel to the right-if-you-were-riding-straight-up-a-wall. If you picture going straight up the wall, then the reaction of the wheel when viewed from the horizontal, i.e. pitching over to the right, is the same as the wheel turning in to a right hand turn as you go straight up the wall.
ATG said:I've got a headache now!
But if you think about it, if you lean left then the handlebars turn in the opposite direction slightly. It's called gyroscopic procession.
Not quite true ... if you turn a spinning wheel to the left, it tilts to the right ... but if you tilt a wheel to the left it turns to the left. There's no contradiction here; I'm not sure this mental picture necessarily helps, but turning the wheel to the left is like leaning the wheel to the right-if-you-were-riding-straight-up-a-wall. If you picture going straight up the wall, then the reaction of the wheel when viewed from the horizontal, i.e. pitching over to the right, is the same as the wheel turning in to a right hand turn as you go straight up the wall.
annsxman said:
It doesn't take big gonads. Whether you realise it or not you always countersteer to turn into a corner. Leaning over has no effect whatsoever on the direction the bike travels. Positively countersteering to speed up the process is just good sense as you spend less time leant over.
Top of the class......
Hi all 
I've always thought it strange that there is no real requirement to teach new riders to corner 'properly' before they get their licence. Having said that, when would you teach it and how would the examiner test it?
Personally I practice countersteering every time I go out, to the extent that I practice increasing counter steer mid-bend to tighten my line so that if, heaven forbid, I encounter an oncoming car on my side of the road my instinctive reaction isn't to grab a handful of front brake and decorate their bonnet!
Good job too, given my close encounter with a 4x4 near Forst William a wee while ago!
I've always thought it strange that there is no real requirement to teach new riders to corner 'properly' before they get their licence. Having said that, when would you teach it and how would the examiner test it?
Personally I practice countersteering every time I go out, to the extent that I practice increasing counter steer mid-bend to tighten my line so that if, heaven forbid, I encounter an oncoming car on my side of the road my instinctive reaction isn't to grab a handful of front brake and decorate their bonnet!
Good job too, given my close encounter with a 4x4 near Forst William a wee while ago!
I was taught on my secound day of learning. It is the only way to ride a bike (at more than 10mph) To learn it on the track see Cal' Superbike school.
If you want to practice this I would suggest ASDA car park on a Sunday night, ride in a straight line at 20mph. sit up straight and have very light pressure on both bars. Then push one about an inch. You can start slowly and get it squicker. I have heard of people doing it so quick they can get the front tyre to slide
This works so so well on a varying radius corner where you can modify pressure whilst in the corner.
Next question if you don't use countersteering how do you get the bike back vertical again out of the corner??????????
If you want to practice this I would suggest ASDA car park on a Sunday night, ride in a straight line at 20mph. sit up straight and have very light pressure on both bars. Then push one about an inch. You can start slowly and get it squicker. I have heard of people doing it so quick they can get the front tyre to slide
This works so so well on a varying radius corner where you can modify pressure whilst in the corner.
Next question if you don't use countersteering how do you get the bike back vertical again out of the corner??????????
Surely (call me stupid if you like) in order to countersteer, one has to get one's back end sliding?
I've done this myself, but usually by accident whilst applying a little too much power mid-corner. The resulting correction with the bars just comes naturally.
The best bike I've done this with was a Honda VF500FII which had a superb chasis & suspension set-up. It's the only bike that I've locked the front wheel on and stayed upright!
Anyway, if I'm correct, then countersteering is steering using one's back wheel ... no? ... or steering with power, like a speedway rider?
I've done this myself, but usually by accident whilst applying a little too much power mid-corner. The resulting correction with the bars just comes naturally.
The best bike I've done this with was a Honda VF500FII which had a superb chasis & suspension set-up. It's the only bike that I've locked the front wheel on and stayed upright!
Anyway, if I'm correct, then countersteering is steering using one's back wheel ... no? ... or steering with power, like a speedway rider?
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