Canems on a V8S
Discussion
You may not find much info on the s series forum. May be more luck in the general/chim/griff forums where there is a greater number of RV8 cars that have been modified. Some more general info here.. Maybe start another new thread and see what the current views are. Canems definately isnt the only option.
mohitos said:
How much of a difference does it make?
That’s the 1st question, the 2nd is how much? A well set up V8S will turn out in the region of 200bhp at the rear wheels so how much more do you get for your money and is it worth it? Has anyone looked at the £/bhp cost benefit ratio for upgrades (for road use)? I've been "toying" with the idea of a modern management system on the V6, I would not expect any significant outright power gains but smoothness, driveability, maybe slightly better fuel economy etc.
Apart from the cost of the system chosen there would, I guess, be additional cost of fitting Lambdas and my biggest concern, finding someone who "knows what they're doing" to set it all up.
I imagine there is far more experience out there with the 'ol Rover engine than with Fords little V6 ?
Many moons ago I spoke to Rpi Engineering ( http://www.v8engines.com )about ECUs for the Rover V8. Answers always seemed very vague, so in the end I did not pursue.
I was told though that the ECU on the V8S is a very standard Range Rover unit (is that true) and as such it really could benefit from an upgrade.
I was told though that the ECU on the V8S is a very standard Range Rover unit (is that true) and as such it really could benefit from an upgrade.
To the OP
I'd like to think I completely researched the back end out of my engine management change, allow me to share what I learnt.
What I quickly discovered was there is a huge choice of ECU's out there, all more or less sporting the same features.
As such your evaluation needs to include and focus on many other critical elements, not just the ECU.
You must understand this is the most significant & important change you will likely make to your car, installed correctly it is a collection of equally critical elements, NOT JUST THE ECU!
Do not underestimate the significance of each element, I will list these elements in the order of importance as I see it.
THE INSTALLERS
I strongly recommend reducing the number of people involved in the supply & installation of your new engine managements system.
Buying the ECU & sensors from one supplier, the loom from another, then getting a third party to fit & map the system can leave you extremely exposed if things go wrong.
Each contractor may choose to blame the other should you start to experience issues, ultimately the more people in the chain the less control you have if things go wrong.
You are strongly advised to reduce your exposure to this type of risk by reducing the suppliers/contractors/fitters to one trusted & respected company.
Research your potential single provider back to front, canvas opinion on here from the widest sample of individuals who have gone through the same process already.
Take that information, then investigate your short list again from a different angle of evaluation, recommendation is great but ultimately you need to satisfy yourself you are choosing the right team.
VISIT THEIR PREMISES to get a feel for how they work, ask them reasonable but challenging questions based on your research, and gauge their answers carefully.
Use your gut feeling!
Can you work with them, do you feel you can trust them, what sort of after care do they offer & at what cost!
The professional installation of a completely new engine management system requires many different skills, the three most critical are:
THE LOOM
You have two options here when installing a new engine management system.
1) A splice job
This is where your existing loom will be cut and the new engine management system is grafted in
2) A new loom
This is a purpose made new wiring loom specifically designed for the change
If there's one thing to rival the importance of choosing the right supplier/installer it's the loom.
Choose a splice job on your pride & joy over a completely new correctly designed loom at your own risk, the difference in reliability is not to be underestimated
THE ECU & SENSORS
Research your short listed hardware very carefully.
These days (especially on our RV8 application) functionality almost always will exceed your requirements so this is a less critical element.
Review the software & evaluate, is it intuitive, how many mappers are happy to work with it?
However, far more important is reliability & manufacturer hardware/software support.
OTHER THINGS TO ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND
Always have in the forefront of your mind that even the very best ECU, if installed & mapped badly, will be a significant step backwards from the original Lucas 14CUX & distributor system.
Remember, as ancient as the Lucas 14CUX & distributor is, it can at least be considered very reliable.
An engine management change has the potential to end in tears if badly planned & researched, this is typically where the owner has failed to look at the project holistically.
Avoid the temptation to think you can do things better/cheaper by putting your own kit of parts together from lots of different sources, this is another sure-fired path to tears.
You must consider every element of the change in great detail, from the very start to the very finish.
Be honest with yourself about your objectives, what are you ultimately trying to achieve, what are your future plans to develop the vehicle?
And most importantly; WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS?
NB:
Changing your engine management system is full of potential pitfalls, get it right & it's by far the best thing you can do to your RV8 TVR.
GET IT WRONG, AND YOU MAY JUST END UP WISHING YOU'D STUCK WITH THE ANCIENT BUT RELIABLE LUCAS 14CUX & DISTRIBUTOR
WHAT & WHO DID I CHOOSE?
After all my extensive research of various systems & installers I settled on a Canems installation from Lloyd Specialist Developments.
Why?
Well it simply ticked more of my boxes than anything else, I researched Lloyd Specialist Developments too and everyone I spoke to had nothing but good things to say about them.
So how did it turn out?
I dropped the car off with the boys at LSD in July 2012, returned two weeks later to collect, then almost immediately drove it 3000 miles around mainland Europe in 14 days.
The car was driven over the St Bernard pass in Switzerland at 2,469 meters above sea level, falling to 300 meters above sea level in just 45 minutes of crazy switchback driving.
We sat crawling along in a hideous traffic jam in the South of France as temperatures rose to a scorching 40 degrees.
We drove through built up cities in stop start traffic, ran at a steady 100mph for hours at a time, & generally subjected the car to just about every type of driving you can throw at a 16 year old TVR in just 2 weeks.
Remember, I'd only picked the car up from Lloyds with it's brand new Canems system the week before we set out, I did nothing to it other than drive it.
And not a single issue, just significantly better performance, fuel economy & drivability.
I ran my dual fuel Canems system for a further 6 months before deciding to access it's additional unique party trick, LPG.
The car now delivers 27mpg on LPG which is the cost equivalent of 52mpg!
My 155mph Chimaera is now as cheap to run as a Nissan Micra
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
To say I'm delighted with the Canems system & the service from Lloyds Specialist Developments would be a massive understatement.
Highly recommended
I'd like to think I completely researched the back end out of my engine management change, allow me to share what I learnt.
What I quickly discovered was there is a huge choice of ECU's out there, all more or less sporting the same features.
As such your evaluation needs to include and focus on many other critical elements, not just the ECU.
You must understand this is the most significant & important change you will likely make to your car, installed correctly it is a collection of equally critical elements, NOT JUST THE ECU!
Do not underestimate the significance of each element, I will list these elements in the order of importance as I see it.
THE INSTALLERS
I strongly recommend reducing the number of people involved in the supply & installation of your new engine managements system.
Buying the ECU & sensors from one supplier, the loom from another, then getting a third party to fit & map the system can leave you extremely exposed if things go wrong.
Each contractor may choose to blame the other should you start to experience issues, ultimately the more people in the chain the less control you have if things go wrong.
You are strongly advised to reduce your exposure to this type of risk by reducing the suppliers/contractors/fitters to one trusted & respected company.
Research your potential single provider back to front, canvas opinion on here from the widest sample of individuals who have gone through the same process already.
Take that information, then investigate your short list again from a different angle of evaluation, recommendation is great but ultimately you need to satisfy yourself you are choosing the right team.
VISIT THEIR PREMISES to get a feel for how they work, ask them reasonable but challenging questions based on your research, and gauge their answers carefully.
Use your gut feeling!
Can you work with them, do you feel you can trust them, what sort of after care do they offer & at what cost!
The professional installation of a completely new engine management system requires many different skills, the three most critical are:
- Wiring
- Engineering
- Mapping
THE LOOM
You have two options here when installing a new engine management system.
1) A splice job
This is where your existing loom will be cut and the new engine management system is grafted in
2) A new loom
This is a purpose made new wiring loom specifically designed for the change
If there's one thing to rival the importance of choosing the right supplier/installer it's the loom.
Choose a splice job on your pride & joy over a completely new correctly designed loom at your own risk, the difference in reliability is not to be underestimated
THE ECU & SENSORS
Research your short listed hardware very carefully.
These days (especially on our RV8 application) functionality almost always will exceed your requirements so this is a less critical element.
Review the software & evaluate, is it intuitive, how many mappers are happy to work with it?
However, far more important is reliability & manufacturer hardware/software support.
OTHER THINGS TO ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND
Always have in the forefront of your mind that even the very best ECU, if installed & mapped badly, will be a significant step backwards from the original Lucas 14CUX & distributor system.
Remember, as ancient as the Lucas 14CUX & distributor is, it can at least be considered very reliable.
An engine management change has the potential to end in tears if badly planned & researched, this is typically where the owner has failed to look at the project holistically.
Avoid the temptation to think you can do things better/cheaper by putting your own kit of parts together from lots of different sources, this is another sure-fired path to tears.
You must consider every element of the change in great detail, from the very start to the very finish.
Be honest with yourself about your objectives, what are you ultimately trying to achieve, what are your future plans to develop the vehicle?
And most importantly; WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS?
NB:
Changing your engine management system is full of potential pitfalls, get it right & it's by far the best thing you can do to your RV8 TVR.
GET IT WRONG, AND YOU MAY JUST END UP WISHING YOU'D STUCK WITH THE ANCIENT BUT RELIABLE LUCAS 14CUX & DISTRIBUTOR
WHAT & WHO DID I CHOOSE?
After all my extensive research of various systems & installers I settled on a Canems installation from Lloyd Specialist Developments.
Why?
Well it simply ticked more of my boxes than anything else, I researched Lloyd Specialist Developments too and everyone I spoke to had nothing but good things to say about them.
So how did it turn out?
I dropped the car off with the boys at LSD in July 2012, returned two weeks later to collect, then almost immediately drove it 3000 miles around mainland Europe in 14 days.
The car was driven over the St Bernard pass in Switzerland at 2,469 meters above sea level, falling to 300 meters above sea level in just 45 minutes of crazy switchback driving.
We sat crawling along in a hideous traffic jam in the South of France as temperatures rose to a scorching 40 degrees.
We drove through built up cities in stop start traffic, ran at a steady 100mph for hours at a time, & generally subjected the car to just about every type of driving you can throw at a 16 year old TVR in just 2 weeks.
Remember, I'd only picked the car up from Lloyds with it's brand new Canems system the week before we set out, I did nothing to it other than drive it.
And not a single issue, just significantly better performance, fuel economy & drivability.
I ran my dual fuel Canems system for a further 6 months before deciding to access it's additional unique party trick, LPG.
The car now delivers 27mpg on LPG which is the cost equivalent of 52mpg!
My 155mph Chimaera is now as cheap to run as a Nissan Micra
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
To say I'm delighted with the Canems system & the service from Lloyds Specialist Developments would be a massive understatement.
Highly recommended
mohitos said:
I was told though that the ECU on the V8S is a very standard Range Rover unit (is that true) and as such it really could benefit from an upgrade.
The ECU itself and the wiring loom are straight out of a rangerover. The fueling map in the ECU is different and the rev limit higher (6250 rather than 5500 iirc) I don't know how different it is but it's not the same and I wouldn't do something like put a rangerover chip in a TVR.The distributor in mine wasn't standard either, someone had adjusted the maximum advance with a grinder. I didn't look to see whether the weights and springs were rover ones.
You're not going to see colossal improvements over a well set up standard ecu and dizzy but there are gains to be had especially from getting rid of the afm and the distributor.
Splicing into the standard loom on a v8s would be madness, it's connected to the car by one 7 pin plug for power, fuel pump, gearbox speed sensor
(there's also some wiring for the coil and dizzy in the body loom)
Well, (so far) I'm pleased I took the car to LSD. One of the injectors wasn't working, so the car was only running on 7 cylinders, and I had a feeling the fans weren't kicking in at all (testament to the guys who re-cored the radiator that this was barely noticeable despite the hot weather, rather than those who refitted it). Compression though was good, and no major concerns.
No pressure at all to go down the upgraded ECU route. but I weighed up all the options. When I'd done all the sums Canems was a clear winner for me. New loom, fitting and mapping. Easy to upgrade if I make any further mods. Will even control the fans!
So, add that to uprated injectors, and new spark plugs, and the car should be a very different animal in a few weeks time.
No pressure at all to go down the upgraded ECU route. but I weighed up all the options. When I'd done all the sums Canems was a clear winner for me. New loom, fitting and mapping. Easy to upgrade if I make any further mods. Will even control the fans!
So, add that to uprated injectors, and new spark plugs, and the car should be a very different animal in a few weeks time.
You wont regret it, thats for sure.Gassing Station | S Series | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff