IT Career Advice Required

[nigelbasson]

My bosses son has just finished his GCSE's and is currently deciding upon his career future. He is interested in moving into computers, more specifically design and programming, and therefore I am asking your advice on what his next steps should be. As many of you are involved in the IT industry at various levels your input would be greatly appreciated.

Should he go to college to gain a qualification/s, and if yes which type are the most useful/industry recognised?

Should he apply to work now and learn "on the job" (many jokes to follow I'm sure!) the skills he requires?

Any other advice you think relevant would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Nigel

[mhibbins]

If you could suggest that he avoids turning into a nerdy over-enthusiastic youngster with verbal diorea (sp?) who doesn't know when to stop talking b*llocks I'd be most grateful.

I've just realised how old that makes me sound... arse.

>> Edited by mhibbins on Wednesday 3rd July 15:14

[CarZee]

Can't go wrong with A Levels or AS.

After doing GCSE, there's just not enough knowledge or even 'learning skills' inculcated to be able to deal with complex problems.. A Level maths is a definite.. and Physics is a good choice too.. then maybe a language as the third one..

GNVQ = Bog Paper
MCSE = Second Hand Bog Paper

When I'm recruiting, I throw CVs in the bin if I don't see A or AS levels and I laugh before throwing them in the bin if there's an MCSE on there, whether they've got A levels or not..

[adeewuff]

Let's not forget that you can make a degree certificate into a nice paper hat as well!

[pjg]

My advice would be "do what you're good at".

Do the GCSE's, then A Levels (at least 3) then go and get yourself a degree.

These days it doesn't have to be in a relevant field, since most companies are prepared to give you the appropriate training.

[neil_cardiff]

So as a budding Network Admin, with no real qualifications, but having started on level one help desk, now trying to knock on the door of third tier support (ie netork admin), what do you guys suggest I do? I was thinking of an MCSA, but from what you say I shan't bother.

Is experience the clincher?

[ap_smith]

RE: Nigel.

Get him to do A levels as widely advised by most here so far. There are lots of less traditional A levels these days rather than just 'Maths' - i.e. technology/computers etc.

If he wants experience, get a saturday job or just start programming things in his own spare time. Playing with technologies and finding out what he actually enjoys will help him when he finishes his A levels and has to decide if he wants to do a degree etc. and if so which area he might want to target.

[lake]

quote:GNVQ = Bog Paper

I thought it was;

NVQ = Not Very Quick
GNVQ = Generally not very quick
HND = Have No Degree

On the serious side, I agree, A levels, followed by a good degree/HND.

I did an HND (in software engineering) and they are very hands on. You can now convert these to degrees at the end of the course with an extra bit of work.

Lake

[CarZee]

quote:Get him to do A levels as widely advised by most here so far. There are lots of less traditional A levels these days rather than just 'Maths' - i.e. technology/computers etc.

i disagree - you're trying to acquire analytical and learning skills and ISTM that the best way to do that is in a 'pure' subject.

Filling your brain with total shit from a Technology A level is neither use nor ornament.. especially as anything knowledge based that you learn will be likely superceded by the time you come to apply it.

OTOH with the learning and analytical skill under ones belt, you're able to turn your hand to pretty much anything afterwards.

Consider the more 'vocational' stuff once looking for a degree.

>> Edited by CarZee on Wednesday 3rd July 15:28

[hughjayteens]

A Levels for sure.


I did a degree (in Aeronautical Engineering!) before going into IT and it obviosuly didn't help directly ..Uni is bloody good fun and 21 is a good age to start working so tell him to make the most of being a student while he can!!! Very few IT jobs would demand a degree but it can't do any harm at all and will make him a better 'person' through the experiences he'll go through.....

[mhibbins]

A-levels and then degree. I wouldn't choose career specific a-levels as he might change his mind.

Also, you can pick up pcs cheap these days and java can be downloaded for free and sun's java tutorial is available on-line. If he used those while he was doing his a-levels he could decide if he likes it enough to make a career out of it or he could then something completely different at degree level.

I would suggest that a comp-sci degree is much better than a general degree if he wants to go into development because while many large companies will take pretty much anyone on and retrain them the competition for places is getting fiercer and a comp-sci degree will give him an edge and also a comp-sci degree will open up opportunities in smaller companies which don't have the training budget of someone like IBM.

Mark

[mondeoman]

I'd go along with the "pure" A levels - teaches better thought processes. As for the degree, hmmm, yes it does give you a good social grounding, but as to applicability for future career.... depends a lot on where he wants it to go..

Recommend do the A levels then re-appraise after that. Oh, and any hands on experience that can be gained in the meantime will help enormously, both in deciding on future path and with beer money!!

[MEMSDesign]

quote:Filling your brain with total shit from a Technology A level is neither use nor ornament.. especially as anything knowledge based that you learn will be likely superceded by the time you come to apply it.

OTOH with the learning and analytical skill under ones belt, you're able to turn your hand to pretty much anything afterwards.

I'd say A level Maths is a definite requirement, and I'd think further maths would be very useful too (especially if you can pick modules on things like decision maths and game theory etc). I'd recommend physics too. I've found it to be an excellent foundation for a technical understanding of just about anything.

[DanL]

My 2p:

Any 'A' levels he likes, so long as he gets 21+ points. Any (reasonable - not media studies!) degree, so long as he gets a 2:1 or above. With these it seems he'll be able to apply to pretty much any large company on a grad training scheme.

I managed neither the 21 points or the 2:1, but still found a company to take me on! Still, that was back when IT was the thing to go in to. Now the market is a bit tougher..

Dan.

[billb]

go to uni for the sex and drugs - worth 3 years of anyones life

people may laugh at mcse/mcsa but look how many jobs require it as a baseline - do a quick search through jobserve.co.uk to prove - msoft aint trendy amonst old IT'ers but vital for many jobs today. for programming though experience and being able to show past successful projects is the key - a-levels/dgree always handy but not vital.

[CarZee]

I'll reiterate what I said earlier: Doing a language is a very good idea - especially as there is a lot of EU wide work up for grabs these days. Also, language skills in general are, IMO, what seperate the wheat from the imbecilic (but then I would say that ).

[CarZee]

quote:Any (reasonable - not media studies!) degree

That's at least one contributor to this thread that you've upset now (not me btw)

[CarZee]

quote:people may laugh at mcse/mcsa but look how many jobs require it as a baseline - do a quick search through jobserve.co.uk to prove - msoft aint trendy amonst old IT'ers but vital for many jobs today.

Disagree somewhat.

many ask for MCSE as a matter of course.. I don't have one and I don't have problems even where MCSE is on the wishlist.. but then I've 9 years experience I suppose.. I suppose if it gets you through the door.. just don't forget you have to renew all your modules every couple of years to keep the poxy bit of paper..

If there's any employer who wouldn't take me because I don't have an MCSE, they're obviously completely anal and unrealistic and work for IBM or some such regimented bunch of grey suits.

>> Edited by CarZee on Wednesday 3rd July 15:44

[mhibbins]

What's an MCSE?

>> Edited by mhibbins on Wednesday 3rd July 15:46

[CarZee]

Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer