Went to view a MCS, Almost bought a Drooper

[paulstarrally]

So on the weekend I went to my local Mini Dealership to view a MCS, but unfortunately it had already been sold

So whilst I was there I had a browse of their other stock and a nice spec'd drooper caught my eye. (I know I couldn't believe it either) So after looking around it, I thought I’ll take it for a test drive just to see how it drives out of interest.

I was hoping it would be awful, but compared to the Mini Cooper Petrol its 10x better.

I will make this day down in my life as a sad one.

I haven't purchased it, so I still have a little bit of my dignity in tack, but I'm considering it :S

[nickfrog]

Did you prefer it to a MCS or just compared to a Cooper ?

[paulstarrally]

I'm yet to drive a MCS, but have a test drive booked tomorrow.

I'm guessing the MCS will blow the other two away. Its then Decsion time, just worried about the running costs really. Can afford it but the misses will kill me

Can only justify it if its roughly the same as the currently car a 1.4 fiesta. Looking on paper and from reports it's not a million miles off. The Tax is cheaper to start. Reported MPG from forum's and honest john are not to far off and the insurance for some strange reason goes down :$

[Miglia 888]

So have the best of both worlds - get the Cooper D and then add a simple sub-£400 remap to Cooper SD levels of power & torque - you'll have the real world pace of a Cooper S petrol, with far more torque than even a MINI JCW, and the far better economy of a diesel
http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/Mini%20Cooper%2...
http://www.superchips.co.uk/search?make=23&fue...

As per the other threads on here, I average 45mpg from my Cooper SD, dropping to 30 mpg at worst while thrashing it, and 60mpg at best while driving like a granny.

I'd also strongly suggest you test drive any MINI they have with 16's and non-runflats on, before you buy yours. Compared to the heavier 17's or 18's with their much poorer ride, the handling is still great on 16's, and the ride is SO much better.

Welcome to the dark side?

[nickfrog]

I guess the re-map would void the warranty and I am not sure it'd still match the MCS pace, real world or fake world ;-). Although I haven't tried both back to back.

Also, I am not sure what torque has to do with it. I think power was the result of rpm x torque so it doesn't really matter how "low" torque is if one is prepared to use the right amount of revs particularly with such light cars, which is no hardship in the MCS but rather agricultural in the SD.

The diesel may prove more cost effective but all other parameters would have to be included to find out, particularly mileage and purchase price.

[Miglia 888]

Nick, it's really time you tried an SD, and then drove it back to back with an S petrol

SD does indeed match the pace of a petrol S on the road- as repeatedly verified by myself & friends with petrol S's on hoons. No wonder MINI only sell the detuned 318d engine tune in the SD, instead of the full 320d tune...

Torque at what revs indeed determines how the peak power is developed - the petrol S needs over 4500 rpm before it accelerates at a similar rate to a SD at 2000 rpm, and constantly needs redlining to make quick progress, although that is indeed great fun when out on a hoon.
Anything less though, and it feels gutless compared with the SD & its less peaky greater torque, e.g when in normal driving if you just put your foot down in whatever gear you're already in. "Real world" experience of it, driving both back to back, confirms it.

The SD could really do with an 8 or 9 speed box to keep it on the boil, and then it'd be even quicker than a petrol S...

Evidently you haven't sat inside and driven an SD. An old VAG 1.9 TDI is what I'd call agricultural - the latest BMW engine SD's are like a Lexus V8 in comparison...

Anyway, I refer you to the OP above on his own Cooper petrol vs Cooper D experience from actually driving them:

"I was hoping it would be awful, but compared to the Mini Cooper Petrol its 10x better."

So stop trying to talk him out of a remapped Cooper D which will be just as quick as a Cooper S petrol but also do 60mpg if he wants it to, when you've only got "no world" experience to support your P.O.V...

Edited by Miglia 888 on Tuesday 18th June 13:24

[AndyT77]

You definitely need to drive a Cooper S and a Cooper S Diesel. I've recenty bought a MCS, as running costs (read diesel economy) were not an issue due to the low miles we do. However, I would have definitely tested a Cooper SD if my mileage justified it.

[nickfrog]

Miglia 888 said:

Nick, it's really time you tried an SD, and then drove it back to back with an S petrol

SD does indeed match the pace of a petrol S on the road- as repeatedly verified by myself & friends with petrol S's on hoons. No wonder MINI only sell the detuned 318d engine tune in the SD, instead of the full 320d tune...

Torque at what revs indeed determines how the peak power is developed - the petrol S needs over 4500 rpm before it accelerates at a similar rate to a SD at 2000 rpm, and constantly needs redlining to make quick progress, although that is indeed great fun when out on a hoon.
Anything less though, and it feels gutless compared with the SD & its less peaky greater torque, e.g when in normal driving if you just put your foot down in whatever gear you're already in. "Real world" experience of it, driving both back to back, confirms it.

The SD could really do with an 8 or 9 speed box to keep it on the boil, and then it'd be even quicker than a petrol S...

Evidently you haven't sat inside and driven an SD. An old VAG 1.9 TDI is what I'd call agricultural - the latest BMW engine SD's are like a Lexus V8 in comparison...

Anyway, I refer you to the OP above on his own Cooper petrol vs Cooper D experience from actually driving them:

"I was hoping it would be awful, but compared to the Mini Cooper Petrol its 10x better."

So stop trying to talk him out of a remapped Cooper D which will be just as quick as a Cooper S petrol but also do 60mpg if he wants it to, when you've only got "no world" experience to support your P.O.V...

Errr.. I have driven an 62 SD (std map). Not a patch on a MCS. I hated the power delivery. I tend to appreciate a more progressive power delivery where I can keep the car on the limit of traction out of corners and match the amount of lock I unwind with the amount of throttle I smoothly apply. Brilliant in a MCS despite the turbo. Rather unpleasant in the SD, traction became the limiting factor and that was in the dry. I have no interest in straight line speed at all but there again, MCS feels quite a lot quicker and sounds much better, although again, not back to back.

MCS engine peaky ? It's quite the opposite. Just make sure you don't drive a S2K ! Although that too will be quite a lot quicker than a SD, despite the low torque.

Maybe you should stop trying to talk the OP out of a MCS, he may want a warranty ?

"I was hoping it would be awful, but compared to the Mini Cooper Petrol its 10x better." == Cooper, not Cooper S. FYI.

Maybe your "friend" with the Cooper S only added a S on the boot ? ;-)

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 18th June 22:48

[paulstarrally]

Ok guys, lets keep this peaceful. Both cars have there pro's and cons.

I finally test drove a MCS today and yes it was as good as expected, but after discussing with other half it looks like the dropper .

Although its not all bad as I have negotiated a corsa sport as a rally car project for my kicks on the weekends.

The drooper in question still has two years TLC pack, so once that's up a re-map maybe on the cards

[Miglia 888]

Welcome to the dark side Paul

Enjoy the great handling, all that torque without having to rev the nuts off it, and the cheaper insurance & £0/£20/£30 road tax in the meantime, before you get your re-map

Edited by Miglia 888 on Wednesday 19th June 19:04