997 turbo v 997 c2s PDK
Discussion
Hello All
Have been reading the posts for quite some time, but have never contributed until now.
Fairly simple - I just want some real world opinions and thoughts.
I have 35k to spend and the choice as i see it is a 997 turbo circa 2006 with 45000miles. Or a 2009 c2s PDK with about the same miles.
I will be using it as my everyday car for work commute (about 35 miles round trip, mostly motorway) and want something that puts a smile on my face everyday and is also great fun on weekends - but is also a car i can live with practicality wise.
The Mrs has an A6 allroad - so we have a sensible solution for when a bigger car is needed- but definitely want to have something to fit my 2yr old daughter in the back.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts and recomendations.
M.
Have been reading the posts for quite some time, but have never contributed until now.
Fairly simple - I just want some real world opinions and thoughts.
I have 35k to spend and the choice as i see it is a 997 turbo circa 2006 with 45000miles. Or a 2009 c2s PDK with about the same miles.
I will be using it as my everyday car for work commute (about 35 miles round trip, mostly motorway) and want something that puts a smile on my face everyday and is also great fun on weekends - but is also a car i can live with practicality wise.
The Mrs has an A6 allroad - so we have a sensible solution for when a bigger car is needed- but definitely want to have something to fit my 2yr old daughter in the back.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts and recomendations.
M.
I'm looking at the same two cars at the moment. You might need to push your budget to 40k for a good turbo and I found the tiptronic to be poor, so I would look for a manual. I'm sure lots of owners will tell you how good the turbo is, but it feels a little dead to drive once you get over the mad acceleration.
The C2S with PDK is much better with a paddle shift steering wheel fitted, the PCM is also a big improvement. Sports chrono pack plus and a sports exhaust are almost essentials options. Running costs are a lot cheaper than the turbo but depreciation is higher.
Drive them both is always the best advice.
The C2S with PDK is much better with a paddle shift steering wheel fitted, the PCM is also a big improvement. Sports chrono pack plus and a sports exhaust are almost essentials options. Running costs are a lot cheaper than the turbo but depreciation is higher.
Drive them both is always the best advice.
Fair enough!
I have a 997.2 S, which is very fast, probably too fast for our roads but provided you're ok with rarely getting in to fourth on a fast drive (unless you're immune to the law and other road users) you'll love it.
I love it, drive it every day, always makes me smile.
No experience of a turbo but it must be frighteningly quick at any rev range (for the S to feel quick you need to be above 5k rpm). For me that would limit the fun in some respects, but I can imagine the rush of acceleration might make up for that.
Drive them both.
On a practical note (I was focusing on the performance/driving) if you intend to use it 35miles per day for work, then phone integration (possibly music too) might be important, in which case the gen2 with PCM 3 is far superior in that it'll actually allow you to do both.
And being really practical I suppose you have to factor in fuel costs, the gen1 turbo will drink a lot more than the gen2 S PDK, not sure what the figures are but I expect on average 10mpg worse in the turbo.
I have a 997.2 S, which is very fast, probably too fast for our roads but provided you're ok with rarely getting in to fourth on a fast drive (unless you're immune to the law and other road users) you'll love it.
I love it, drive it every day, always makes me smile.
No experience of a turbo but it must be frighteningly quick at any rev range (for the S to feel quick you need to be above 5k rpm). For me that would limit the fun in some respects, but I can imagine the rush of acceleration might make up for that.
Drive them both.
On a practical note (I was focusing on the performance/driving) if you intend to use it 35miles per day for work, then phone integration (possibly music too) might be important, in which case the gen2 with PCM 3 is far superior in that it'll actually allow you to do both.
And being really practical I suppose you have to factor in fuel costs, the gen1 turbo will drink a lot more than the gen2 S PDK, not sure what the figures are but I expect on average 10mpg worse in the turbo.
Edited by f1ashgordon on Wednesday 15th May 08:50
I'd probably pick the gen 2 PDK as you're getting a newer car.
Few things though. Fuel economy on both cars isn't massively different nor are running costs as long as neither of them break down. Doubt you will find a good turbo at that money to be fair. Also you can get a gen 1 turbo with PCM 3 but they start at £50k plus. In fact very very difficult to find a good turbo for less than £50k.
If you buy a turbo and need to replace say worn turbos, radiators and brake disc and pads/tyres change you can easily get a bill for say £8-£10k which makes the economy of buying a turbo for £37k pointless unless the car has recently had radiators, new tyres, new brake discs and pads, new tyres and engine/turbos confirmed to be in tip top condition (which i think is virtually impossible to guarantee on a used car). If you're buying a turbo I'd buy one form an OPC with 2 year with no quibble warranty. Have a look at my running costs. Without the warranty I think you could easily add another £10k to my running costs from my experience. Also turbos that have been standing around without many miles are more problematic than the ones that have been driven.
I'm not saying you will not find a turbo for the money you want to spend but you really have to be lucky and know your cars to find a good one. If an engine or gearbox went pop on a turbo I'd hate to guess replacement cost.
Few things though. Fuel economy on both cars isn't massively different nor are running costs as long as neither of them break down. Doubt you will find a good turbo at that money to be fair. Also you can get a gen 1 turbo with PCM 3 but they start at £50k plus. In fact very very difficult to find a good turbo for less than £50k.
If you buy a turbo and need to replace say worn turbos, radiators and brake disc and pads/tyres change you can easily get a bill for say £8-£10k which makes the economy of buying a turbo for £37k pointless unless the car has recently had radiators, new tyres, new brake discs and pads, new tyres and engine/turbos confirmed to be in tip top condition (which i think is virtually impossible to guarantee on a used car). If you're buying a turbo I'd buy one form an OPC with 2 year with no quibble warranty. Have a look at my running costs. Without the warranty I think you could easily add another £10k to my running costs from my experience. Also turbos that have been standing around without many miles are more problematic than the ones that have been driven.
I'm not saying you will not find a turbo for the money you want to spend but you really have to be lucky and know your cars to find a good one. If an engine or gearbox went pop on a turbo I'd hate to guess replacement cost.
997 c2s is a fantastic car. I think with the budget you might struggle to find the perfect spec but is would pick a 997.2 S over a turbo .1 any day.
Don't dismiss the manual in 997.2 it is genuinely a lovely box when the clutch is in good shape. Drive a few as well because the used clutches ones will be much heavier and you will definitely be given the "they all do that sir"...
I have a friend with a 997.1 turbo and when he bought it for service and was given a c2s didn't want to give it back.. Think he put 500miles on it over the weekend he had it drivin around with no purpose but pure pleasure..
You need PSE btw as the Dfi engine is a touch quiter than the previous one. But at least shouldn't melt down :-)
Don't dismiss the manual in 997.2 it is genuinely a lovely box when the clutch is in good shape. Drive a few as well because the used clutches ones will be much heavier and you will definitely be given the "they all do that sir"...
I have a friend with a 997.1 turbo and when he bought it for service and was given a c2s didn't want to give it back.. Think he put 500miles on it over the weekend he had it drivin around with no purpose but pure pleasure..
You need PSE btw as the Dfi engine is a touch quiter than the previous one. But at least shouldn't melt down :-)
I went through similar buying thoughts earlier this year for a daily driver but was looking at late 997.1T (manual) with PCM3 vs 4GTS (PDK). I loaned the cars back to back over a few days and as has been said, once I looked past the drama and smiles from the Turbo's mad acceleration the rest was weirdly numb, hard to explain. The best way to put it into context was by driving the GTS - not sure what spec you want for a 2S? - but there was so much more character, noise, delivery of power which is still considerable.
PDK is a topic in itself, I went for the 4GTS and for me, driving to the office everyday its perfect and just as much fun when I go out to drive the car either in auto or manual mode. I've got the paddle change set up so can't comment on the button gearchange which of course you can get changed across if you think you are going to use the manual mode a lot. I would say it is worthy of thought re PCM, again as a daily driver I use a lot of the funtionality regulalrly and would have always felt I'd have missed out on what I really wanted.
At the end of the day though it's a lovely choice to have, good luck!
Edd
PDK is a topic in itself, I went for the 4GTS and for me, driving to the office everyday its perfect and just as much fun when I go out to drive the car either in auto or manual mode. I've got the paddle change set up so can't comment on the button gearchange which of course you can get changed across if you think you are going to use the manual mode a lot. I would say it is worthy of thought re PCM, again as a daily driver I use a lot of the funtionality regulalrly and would have always felt I'd have missed out on what I really wanted.
At the end of the day though it's a lovely choice to have, good luck!
Edd
IMI A said:
I'd probably pick the gen 2 PDK as you're getting a newer car.
Few things though. Fuel economy on both cars isn't massively different nor are running costs as long as neither of them break down. Doubt you will find a good turbo at that money to be fair. Also you can get a gen 1 turbo with PCM 3 but they start at £50k plus. In fact very very difficult to find a good turbo for less than £50k.
Is that right? I see quite a few in the low £40k's advertised and would expect the majority to be 'good' cars. Some of these are with highly respected indies too. Few things though. Fuel economy on both cars isn't massively different nor are running costs as long as neither of them break down. Doubt you will find a good turbo at that money to be fair. Also you can get a gen 1 turbo with PCM 3 but they start at £50k plus. In fact very very difficult to find a good turbo for less than £50k.
No doubt some of these are high £30k's in the trade which I guess is where the OP may be able to get one.
Thanks for the insight guys - some great knowledge and advice.
Update. I have previously driven the PDK - and was impressed. Drove the turbo this afternoon - increadible! But I do wonder six months down the line if I would feel the same.
Just to muddy the waters - a colleague suggested I should seriously consider a maserati granturismo-always thought it was a beauty to look at, and seems sensible money. No idea in relation to the owners experience though-anyone have any thoughts ???
M
Update. I have previously driven the PDK - and was impressed. Drove the turbo this afternoon - increadible! But I do wonder six months down the line if I would feel the same.
Just to muddy the waters - a colleague suggested I should seriously consider a maserati granturismo-always thought it was a beauty to look at, and seems sensible money. No idea in relation to the owners experience though-anyone have any thoughts ???
M
rugbymattyboy6 said:
Thanks for the insight guys - some great knowledge and advice.
Update. I have previously driven the PDK - and was impressed. Drove the turbo this afternoon - increadible! But I do wonder six months down the line if I would feel the same.
Just to muddy the waters - a colleague suggested I should seriously consider a maserati granturismo-always thought it was a beauty to look at, and seems sensible money. No idea in relation to the owners experience though-anyone have any thoughts ???
M
I have driven Maserati gran turismo and have a 997. 1 c4s as a daily driver..Update. I have previously driven the PDK - and was impressed. Drove the turbo this afternoon - increadible! But I do wonder six months down the line if I would feel the same.
Just to muddy the waters - a colleague suggested I should seriously consider a maserati granturismo-always thought it was a beauty to look at, and seems sensible money. No idea in relation to the owners experience though-anyone have any thoughts ???
M
The gran turismo is definitely better looking,but is very heavy and feels it.
IMO you feel your driving the porsche and your minute inputs are felt.
The maser might as well be a big automatic Audi/merc but obviously much better looking
Paul
I think the Maserati looks absolutely beautiful but I'm not sure I could live with one.
I was in exactly the same position as yourself about eight months ago, and decided a 7.2S PDK was out of my price range. Ended up with a manual Turbo. I have to say it's still growing on me, more so each time I drive.
Properly Jekyll and Hyde, refined and (reasonably) quiet when you want to pootle, and a complete raving axe murderer when you don't.
And so far (touch wood) nothing (literally NOTHING, not even a niggle) has gone wrong with it.
I was in exactly the same position as yourself about eight months ago, and decided a 7.2S PDK was out of my price range. Ended up with a manual Turbo. I have to say it's still growing on me, more so each time I drive.
Properly Jekyll and Hyde, refined and (reasonably) quiet when you want to pootle, and a complete raving axe murderer when you don't.
And so far (touch wood) nothing (literally NOTHING, not even a niggle) has gone wrong with it.
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