GT3 brake upgrade for track. What do you run?
Discussion
Hi all,
Just purchased a 6GT3 Mk2 which I will be slowly turning into an even more focused track machine over the next year or so. As factory discs are shot, looking to upgrade these as one of the first jobs. Car will be 90% used on track so not worried about squeaking etc, just want the best combo of performance, price and longevity. Default choice was Alcons plus Pagids RS29s, but wondered if anyone had any experience of alternatives, or indeed want to rave about Alcons!
Thanks in advance for any advice from GT3 pilots past or present.
Cheers
Slodge
Just purchased a 6GT3 Mk2 which I will be slowly turning into an even more focused track machine over the next year or so. As factory discs are shot, looking to upgrade these as one of the first jobs. Car will be 90% used on track so not worried about squeaking etc, just want the best combo of performance, price and longevity. Default choice was Alcons plus Pagids RS29s, but wondered if anyone had any experience of alternatives, or indeed want to rave about Alcons!
Thanks in advance for any advice from GT3 pilots past or present.
Cheers
Slodge
Alcons are industry standard, for good reason. Long time favourite for track and road use, several colleagues with GTR's and R8 run them on road.
Performance friction discs equally sort after and another industry standard.
I ran Pagid pads for 7 years, superb pad, now superseded for me anyway by PF 08 pads.
Endless are a relative newcomer to the brake pad pletherol, but command vast sums.
Best bang for buck if your tracking is a cheap and cheerful standard disc (Cayman fit GT3)and PF pads is my thinking.
You can spend silly money on Alcons etc. and yes you will be one whole second faster than the next bloke.
Performance friction discs equally sort after and another industry standard.
I ran Pagid pads for 7 years, superb pad, now superseded for me anyway by PF 08 pads.
Endless are a relative newcomer to the brake pad pletherol, but command vast sums.
Best bang for buck if your tracking is a cheap and cheerful standard disc (Cayman fit GT3)and PF pads is my thinking.
You can spend silly money on Alcons etc. and yes you will be one whole second faster than the next bloke.
king expensive when compared to Alcons etc, tho Design 911 (?) have them up for £1500 a complete setI've just run mine for a full year, 11k miles including 8 trackdays on OEM discs and Pagid RS29 fronts and RS14 rears. The front discs are ready to be replaced but there is plenty of life left in the front pads and the rear pads and discs are barely touched.
I will quantify this by also adding that I've only been running PS2 rubber this past year. I am sure that if you are a fast driver on a more track-biased rubber you would expect to see more wear than I have experienced.
Jack
I will quantify this by also adding that I've only been running PS2 rubber this past year. I am sure that if you are a fast driver on a more track-biased rubber you would expect to see more wear than I have experienced.
Jack
OK OK - Alcons and Pagids ordered today!! Thanks for all the advice - it's what makes forums like this great. Porsche Motorsport cage, Schroth 6 points and cup steering wheel also on the way ready for Silverstone on 27th May. Very exciting!
Next decision is suspension. Watch this space...
Cheers
Slodge
Next decision is suspension. Watch this space...
Cheers
Slodge
Quick question: how are you going to fit a Motorsport cage into a comfort car? Are you going to have someone weld in the fixing points for you? Or did you actually mean you have ordered a Tequipment cage?
Oh, and don't forget the lightweight flywheel and clutch out of the RS in your upgrades :-)
And before you ask, KW Clubsports is probably the best all-round package suspension-wise. Don't bother with the V3's.
Oh, and don't forget the lightweight flywheel and clutch out of the RS in your upgrades :-)
And before you ask, KW Clubsports is probably the best all-round package suspension-wise. Don't bother with the V3's.
jackwood said:
And before you ask, KW Clubsports is probably the best all-round package suspension-wise. Don't bother with the V3's.
Manthey KWv3 are excellent. I think some may find them a touch soft for hardcore circuit racing (I suspect the damping is specced for Nurburgring), but I raced a 996 on KWv3s to within 1-2 seconds per lap against a full Cup car on Sachs (mostly like for like, including weight and driver), so they can't be that bad.Could never get on with KW stuff personally although I know that many drivers really like it. I find that it is too soft, especially the front damping which I always seemed to run full stiff on bump and still want more bump resistance to stop oversteer before the apex. Rebound was fine. I'd like to try a car fitted with some fronts that had been re gassed and valved to be stiffer on bump. On saying that, I always run a very stiff front end on a GT3. To all you KW fans out there, please don't take offence. It's all down to personal preference at the end of the day.
jackwood said:
Quick question: how are you going to fit a Motorsport cage into a comfort car? Are you going to have someone weld in the fixing points for you? Or did you actually mean you have ordered a Tequipment cage?
I am not a practical man (struggle putting a picture on the wall) so will have to ask the guys what/how they are doing it. As I understand things at the mo, it's a 6 point bolt in cage similar, if not the same, to the full ones you get in the RS. It's highly likely I could be wrong though.jackwood said:
Oh, and don't forget the lightweight flywheel and clutch out of the RS in your upgrades :-)
I'm doing it in phases to enjoy the process and lessen the overall wallet pain... Current plan of attack for 12 - 18 months is below:Phase 1
Cage
PP Buckets (taken from previous track car)
6 point harnesses
Cup steering wheel
Alcons + Pagids
Brake fluid change
Tuition
Phase 2
Suspension - probably Ohlins are the favoured route at mo. Fancy a change from KWs as have had then on a couple of cars.
Polybushing
Geo, corner weighting etc
More tuition
Phase 3
LW Flywheel etc
Short ratio crown wheel and pinion
Cup diff
Short shifter
Even more tuition
Phase 4
(may / may not)
RS wing
LW wheels (OZ, BBS)
Exciting times!
Cheers
Slodge
Sounds like a plan!
I only ask about the cage as the comfort cars don't have the fixing points welded into the body to accept the 6-point Motorsport cage that the CS and RS cars have. You can have these welded into the shell if you want, but the normal route for a comfort car is the Tequipment one that uses the (unused) rear seatbelt mounts as pick up points. .
Regarding the other upgrades you've got listed, I'd have the diff checked first of all, if you haven't already. I am sure there are plenty of people on here that will tell you exactly why a fully functioning diff is crucial to a GT3, but if yours is the original, or just plain worn out, it needs bumping right up the list.
Secondly, the poly bushing. My car was fully poly bushed at the front end a year before I bought it. About 6 months after I picked it up the front suspension started knocking on acceleration and braking. It turned out that the bushes on the inner pickups of the lower control arms had chewed themselves up against the subframe. I was in a real rush to get the car back on track again so just had them replaced with more poly bushes, but ideally for a serious track car you would be far better putting in the rose joint cartridges and the solid caster pucks from someone like RSS or Tarret. That's what I'll be doing next time.
Oh, and don't forget the rear toe links. The RSS ones (again) are very nice.
I only ask about the cage as the comfort cars don't have the fixing points welded into the body to accept the 6-point Motorsport cage that the CS and RS cars have. You can have these welded into the shell if you want, but the normal route for a comfort car is the Tequipment one that uses the (unused) rear seatbelt mounts as pick up points. .
Regarding the other upgrades you've got listed, I'd have the diff checked first of all, if you haven't already. I am sure there are plenty of people on here that will tell you exactly why a fully functioning diff is crucial to a GT3, but if yours is the original, or just plain worn out, it needs bumping right up the list.
Secondly, the poly bushing. My car was fully poly bushed at the front end a year before I bought it. About 6 months after I picked it up the front suspension started knocking on acceleration and braking. It turned out that the bushes on the inner pickups of the lower control arms had chewed themselves up against the subframe. I was in a real rush to get the car back on track again so just had them replaced with more poly bushes, but ideally for a serious track car you would be far better putting in the rose joint cartridges and the solid caster pucks from someone like RSS or Tarret. That's what I'll be doing next time.
Oh, and don't forget the rear toe links. The RSS ones (again) are very nice.
jackwood said:
Sounds like a plan!
I only ask about the cage as the comfort cars don't have the fixing points welded into the body to accept the 6-point Motorsport cage that the CS and RS cars have. You can have these welded into the shell if you want, but the normal route for a comfort car is the Tequipment one that uses the (unused) rear seatbelt mounts as pick up points. .
Regarding the other upgrades you've got listed, I'd have the diff checked first of all, if you haven't already. I am sure there are plenty of people on here that will tell you exactly why a fully functioning diff is crucial to a GT3, but if yours is the original, or just plain worn out, it needs bumping right up the list.
Secondly, the poly bushing. My car was fully poly bushed at the front end a year before I bought it. About 6 months after I picked it up the front suspension started knocking on acceleration and braking. It turned out that the bushes on the inner pickups of the lower control arms had chewed themselves up against the subframe. I was in a real rush to get the car back on track again so just had them replaced with more poly bushes, but ideally for a serious track car you would be far better putting in the rose joint cartridges and the solid caster pucks from someone like RSS or Tarret. That's what I'll be doing next time.
Oh, and don't forget the rear toe links. The RSS ones (again) are very nice.
Thanks dude - most helpful! I'll look into the rose joint cartridges, solid caster pucks and the rear toe links. I can see this list of mine getting longer by the minute... Don't tell the wife.I only ask about the cage as the comfort cars don't have the fixing points welded into the body to accept the 6-point Motorsport cage that the CS and RS cars have. You can have these welded into the shell if you want, but the normal route for a comfort car is the Tequipment one that uses the (unused) rear seatbelt mounts as pick up points. .
Regarding the other upgrades you've got listed, I'd have the diff checked first of all, if you haven't already. I am sure there are plenty of people on here that will tell you exactly why a fully functioning diff is crucial to a GT3, but if yours is the original, or just plain worn out, it needs bumping right up the list.
Secondly, the poly bushing. My car was fully poly bushed at the front end a year before I bought it. About 6 months after I picked it up the front suspension started knocking on acceleration and braking. It turned out that the bushes on the inner pickups of the lower control arms had chewed themselves up against the subframe. I was in a real rush to get the car back on track again so just had them replaced with more poly bushes, but ideally for a serious track car you would be far better putting in the rose joint cartridges and the solid caster pucks from someone like RSS or Tarret. That's what I'll be doing next time.
Oh, and don't forget the rear toe links. The RSS ones (again) are very nice.
Will let you know about the cage - they must be welding in pick up points as I was keen to have the 6 point version.
Cheers
Slodge
Steve Rance said:
Could never get on with KW stuff personally although I know that many drivers really like it. I find that it is too soft, especially the front damping which I always seemed to run full stiff on bump and still want more bump resistance to stop oversteer before the apex. Rebound was fine. I'd like to try a car fitted with some fronts that had been re gassed and valved to be stiffer on bump. On saying that, I always run a very stiff front end on a GT3. To all you KW fans out there, please don't take offence. It's all down to personal preference at the end of the day.
You're not alone. I don't know many that get the soft front they run and its not something that anyone has felt the need to mirror. The lack of monotube is also questionable. Until I came back to the UK I hadn't see KW on a GT3 for a long time. The sales guy must work harder over here 
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