996tt buying guide/advice
Discussion
i have pretty much decided im going to get myself in a 996tt by the end of the year.
my budget will be 25k, and it has to be a manual coupe.
would rather buy from a dealer, although i realise my budget is slightly on the low side for dealer cars.
i just want to know the main things to look out for on these cars, items that regularly have issues or need replacing etc. or expensive items that are a bonus to have been done already.
basically the main things to look for.
just want to be as clued up as possible before going out to buy, i am knowledgeable on 944 and 944 turbos as i currently own a 944t and a 924t, i know all the problems to look out for and the main traits of these cars, so want to be as knowledgable about the 996tt before going to look at cars, as i dont want to end up with a dud!
thanks for any advice.
cheers
nick
my budget will be 25k, and it has to be a manual coupe.
would rather buy from a dealer, although i realise my budget is slightly on the low side for dealer cars.
i just want to know the main things to look out for on these cars, items that regularly have issues or need replacing etc. or expensive items that are a bonus to have been done already.
basically the main things to look for.
just want to be as clued up as possible before going out to buy, i am knowledgeable on 944 and 944 turbos as i currently own a 944t and a 924t, i know all the problems to look out for and the main traits of these cars, so want to be as knowledgable about the 996tt before going to look at cars, as i dont want to end up with a dud!
thanks for any advice.
cheers
nick
Hi Nick,
I've bought several Porsches over the years from Tom at 911Virgin, and I'd definitely recommend giving him a ring and discuss your requirements with him including budget. Tom will only buy in decent cars and therefore you can use his experience to minimise your risk.
I've no connection with 911V, other than being a satisfied customer.
Good luck by the way, the 996t is a great car if you buy wisely.
I've bought several Porsches over the years from Tom at 911Virgin, and I'd definitely recommend giving him a ring and discuss your requirements with him including budget. Tom will only buy in decent cars and therefore you can use his experience to minimise your risk.
I've no connection with 911V, other than being a satisfied customer.
Good luck by the way, the 996t is a great car if you buy wisely.
yes i have always liked the way in which 911v seem to do buisness. i would much rather buy from a dealer as you get a bit of piece of mind that they wont be selling crap, and will likely help you out if you have issues soon into ownership.
i may give them a call and give them the job of trying to source the right car for me and see what they come up with.
i would love the gt2 from there, but i just cant quite stretch to a gt2 without selling all my other toys. if i buy a 996tt then i can keep my evo track car which is a pure track monster.
thanks
i may give them a call and give them the job of trying to source the right car for me and see what they come up with.
i would love the gt2 from there, but i just cant quite stretch to a gt2 without selling all my other toys. if i buy a 996tt then i can keep my evo track car which is a pure track monster.
thanks
You're quite right in wanting to do your homework first.
I recently bought a 2003 996tt coupe and bought the 996 books by Adrain Streather first, which I highly recommend (having used the 964 one's before):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adrian-Streather/e/B0034NY...
The buyers guide will tell you all you need to know and is good value at less than £10!
I recently bought a 2003 996tt coupe and bought the 996 books by Adrain Streather first, which I highly recommend (having used the 964 one's before):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adrian-Streather/e/B0034NY...
The buyers guide will tell you all you need to know and is good value at less than £10!
The Turbo is just a used car so a thorough used car check out is paramount.
I mean I could say the radiators are prone to leaking due to trash collecting and leading to corrosion so you spend an hour checking the radiators only to miss a transmission with a 2nd gear pop out problem.
Briefly, visit the car with it cold. Turn off the A/C. When you turn on the key verify all warning lights -- including the CEL -- come on then go off as the engine starts and runs.
Listen to the engine as it idles and warms up. I can't take the time to cover what this should sound like you just have to be familiar with these engines. Go listen to some.
Let the engine idle for 10 minutes or more.
Then have the seller take you on a test ride. As a passenger focus on the car, from how the engine pulls, how the shifts feel, everything.
The route should cover 15 miles or so and give the driver an opportunity to demo the car in a variety of situations.
This include stop and go driving, cruising, and high speed acceleration. From near idle the pedal should be floored and the engine taken up to near redline then upshifted and the pedal floored again. The engine should pull hard, smooth. Afterwards the engine should settle into a smooth idle.
Back at the starting point take the car out as a driver and drive the same route, drive the car the same way.
Note the oil pressure at hot idle (1 to 2 bar is "norma"). A real high pressure might mean the engine's got thick oil to mask an engine noise or "address" high oil consumption or the current owner has fallen into the any oil buy Porsche approved oil is the best oil line of thinking.
Note the boost level. Stock you should see 0.6 to 0.7 bar. 0.7 bar is the nominal max boost but under some conditions the engine controller may find 0.6 bar is enough. Under other conditions 0.8 bar, even 0.9 bar boost may be required (though not likely where you live... I've seen up to 0.9 bar but only under hard acceleration in higher (nearly 9K feet) elevations).
In short, note everything.
You really want to drive the car some distance, some time, to get a sense of the car's condition.
Back at the starting point now give the car a thorough used car check out. Assume nothing works until you verify it does.
If after all of the above you still want the car and believe you can buy it arrange for a PPI. This among other things has the DME over rev counters/engine run time values read.
It also has the car on a lift and closely checked for leaks. This is when the radiators are checked along with the CV boots, water pump, hoses, engine seals, camshaft covers, tranny, 2 diffs and viscous coupling/cardan shaft (all arising from AWD!) are checked for leaks and other signs of trouble.
There's more to this than I can cover above. The point is you really need to check the car out as thoroughly as you can and this consists of a test ride/drive and then a check of the car parked then later on a lift by someone who knows these cars.
I mean I could say the radiators are prone to leaking due to trash collecting and leading to corrosion so you spend an hour checking the radiators only to miss a transmission with a 2nd gear pop out problem.
Briefly, visit the car with it cold. Turn off the A/C. When you turn on the key verify all warning lights -- including the CEL -- come on then go off as the engine starts and runs.
Listen to the engine as it idles and warms up. I can't take the time to cover what this should sound like you just have to be familiar with these engines. Go listen to some.
Let the engine idle for 10 minutes or more.
Then have the seller take you on a test ride. As a passenger focus on the car, from how the engine pulls, how the shifts feel, everything.
The route should cover 15 miles or so and give the driver an opportunity to demo the car in a variety of situations.
This include stop and go driving, cruising, and high speed acceleration. From near idle the pedal should be floored and the engine taken up to near redline then upshifted and the pedal floored again. The engine should pull hard, smooth. Afterwards the engine should settle into a smooth idle.
Back at the starting point take the car out as a driver and drive the same route, drive the car the same way.
Note the oil pressure at hot idle (1 to 2 bar is "norma"). A real high pressure might mean the engine's got thick oil to mask an engine noise or "address" high oil consumption or the current owner has fallen into the any oil buy Porsche approved oil is the best oil line of thinking.
Note the boost level. Stock you should see 0.6 to 0.7 bar. 0.7 bar is the nominal max boost but under some conditions the engine controller may find 0.6 bar is enough. Under other conditions 0.8 bar, even 0.9 bar boost may be required (though not likely where you live... I've seen up to 0.9 bar but only under hard acceleration in higher (nearly 9K feet) elevations).
In short, note everything.
You really want to drive the car some distance, some time, to get a sense of the car's condition.
Back at the starting point now give the car a thorough used car check out. Assume nothing works until you verify it does.
If after all of the above you still want the car and believe you can buy it arrange for a PPI. This among other things has the DME over rev counters/engine run time values read.
It also has the car on a lift and closely checked for leaks. This is when the radiators are checked along with the CV boots, water pump, hoses, engine seals, camshaft covers, tranny, 2 diffs and viscous coupling/cardan shaft (all arising from AWD!) are checked for leaks and other signs of trouble.
There's more to this than I can cover above. The point is you really need to check the car out as thoroughly as you can and this consists of a test ride/drive and then a check of the car parked then later on a lift by someone who knows these cars.
nickson said:
thanks for that, just bought the book!
No problem & happy hunting.£25k budget is probably the bottom end for good straight cars with less than 60k miles on the odo.
Yep, I can concur that Tom is a good chap, having met him and Harry Firman a few times...along with Jonas at JZM.
When buying mine, the only things that needed rectifying were 2 radiators and a non-extending rear spoiler (at 75mph!), but these were agreed to be fixed, prior to my purchase, by the supplying garage.
As mentioned above, assume nothing works, until you check it otherwise.
Now that I've got that off my chest, good luck with your purchase. They are simply brilliant cars, and nothing esle comes close, pretty much for any money.
Here's the PH buying guide.
Oh, meant to mention that Total 911 has done several 996 Turbo buying guides, and several in depth articles on 996 Turbos. You can get the 1st 50 issues on DVD for a reasonable amount of money.
Or buy the back issues -- if they are still available -- of the issues that have the 996 Turbo buying guides/articles.
Also, several other UK published Porsche mags have done Turbo buying guides. Get them all! The more you know the better off you'll be.
Or buy the back issues -- if they are still available -- of the issues that have the 996 Turbo buying guides/articles.
Also, several other UK published Porsche mags have done Turbo buying guides. Get them all! The more you know the better off you'll be.
thanks for the advice everyone.
can people also recommend the best porsche specialist dealers to look for good cars from a trustworthy dealer with good aftersales and well prepped cars etc.
i have already spoken with 911 virgin, and have heard good things about rsj and chappel sports cars.
thanks
nick
can people also recommend the best porsche specialist dealers to look for good cars from a trustworthy dealer with good aftersales and well prepped cars etc.
i have already spoken with 911 virgin, and have heard good things about rsj and chappel sports cars.
thanks
nick
tbh im not massively bothered about detailing etc, im more interested in buying a good car which wont need thousands spent on it after purchase. although its nice for a company to have a car properly detailed and presented, its all put onto the purchase price, and so as long as a car is clean and presentable i would be happy to buy as long as it was mechanically sound.
on the same note, i also dont mind buying a car that needs some work at the right price, as im happy to carry out any work needed myself, as long as all the work thats needed, is pointed out to me, and the price reflects the need for work. i run a motorsport fabrication company, and often sell cars myself. carrying out any service/remedial work through my own company is a great bonus as it will save me thousands in labor costs, i just want a company who is honest enough to point out any work needed.
i would prefer to get straight into a nice tidy car and drive it, but i dont want to pay a massive premium for work to be carried out that i can sort myself. i just dont want to get stung on a few items that add up to thousands, when i could have bought a well prepped car for the same money, without the hassle of having to do all the work myself before i can go and enjoy the car!
on the same note, i also dont mind buying a car that needs some work at the right price, as im happy to carry out any work needed myself, as long as all the work thats needed, is pointed out to me, and the price reflects the need for work. i run a motorsport fabrication company, and often sell cars myself. carrying out any service/remedial work through my own company is a great bonus as it will save me thousands in labor costs, i just want a company who is honest enough to point out any work needed.
i would prefer to get straight into a nice tidy car and drive it, but i dont want to pay a massive premium for work to be carried out that i can sort myself. i just dont want to get stung on a few items that add up to thousands, when i could have bought a well prepped car for the same money, without the hassle of having to do all the work myself before i can go and enjoy the car!
also where would a 996 turbo benefit most for track use.
i intend to make the 996 an evenings and weekends car, which i can also drive to trackdays and back. i would like to fit some bucket seats and harness, and a rear cage, then maybe uprate the suspension and brakes. basically after a fast road setup that can also be used on track.
my main thinking behind this, is that my evo is a pure track car, but its crap on the road, and it also means it hardly ever gets used. what i want is a car i can enjoy regularly on the road eves and weekends, then just do the occasional track day without making the car unbearable on the road.
main pitfalls of the 996 turbo on track?
cheers
i intend to make the 996 an evenings and weekends car, which i can also drive to trackdays and back. i would like to fit some bucket seats and harness, and a rear cage, then maybe uprate the suspension and brakes. basically after a fast road setup that can also be used on track.
my main thinking behind this, is that my evo is a pure track car, but its crap on the road, and it also means it hardly ever gets used. what i want is a car i can enjoy regularly on the road eves and weekends, then just do the occasional track day without making the car unbearable on the road.
main pitfalls of the 996 turbo on track?
cheers
nickson said:
also where would a 996 turbo benefit most for track use.
i intend to make the 996 an evenings and weekends car, which i can also drive to trackdays and back. i would like to fit some bucket seats and harness, and a rear cage, then maybe uprate the suspension and brakes. basically after a fast road setup that can also be used on track.
my main thinking behind this, is that my evo is a pure track car, but its crap on the road, and it also means it hardly ever gets used. what i want is a car i can enjoy regularly on the road eves and weekends, then just do the occasional track day without making the car unbearable on the road.
main pitfalls of the 996 turbo on track?
cheers
I like to track mine now and then. I've uprated the brakes to GT3 at the front and fitted 350mm disc at the rear with RS29 pads and fitted Bilstein PSS9s from FVD. The next thing to do would be to fit better seats. This is in addition to the obligatory remap and zorst. Plus I have a second set of wheels with 888s fitted.i intend to make the 996 an evenings and weekends car, which i can also drive to trackdays and back. i would like to fit some bucket seats and harness, and a rear cage, then maybe uprate the suspension and brakes. basically after a fast road setup that can also be used on track.
my main thinking behind this, is that my evo is a pure track car, but its crap on the road, and it also means it hardly ever gets used. what i want is a car i can enjoy regularly on the road eves and weekends, then just do the occasional track day without making the car unbearable on the road.
main pitfalls of the 996 turbo on track?
cheers
Its still no GT3 and yes, for the extra money I've spent I could have got a very nice one of those. I just didn't realise I would take the car for in that direction when I bought it
Edited by _gez_ on Wednesday 1st May 20:47
nickson said:
also where would a 996 turbo benefit most for track use.
i intend to make the 996 an evenings and weekends car, which i can also drive to trackdays and back. i would like to fit some bucket seats and harness, and a rear cage, then maybe uprate the suspension and brakes. basically after a fast road setup that can also be used on track.
my main thinking behind this, is that my evo is a pure track car, but its crap on the road, and it also means it hardly ever gets used. what i want is a car i can enjoy regularly on the road eves and weekends, then just do the occasional track day without making the car unbearable on the road.
main pitfalls of the 996 turbo on track?
cheers
Basically the same pitfalls that other cars can fall prey to. An "off". Missed shift, that is a money shift (Tips excluded of course). The engine while quite strong is not indestructible. And the wear and tear track usage subjects the car too.i intend to make the 996 an evenings and weekends car, which i can also drive to trackdays and back. i would like to fit some bucket seats and harness, and a rear cage, then maybe uprate the suspension and brakes. basically after a fast road setup that can also be used on track.
my main thinking behind this, is that my evo is a pure track car, but its crap on the road, and it also means it hardly ever gets used. what i want is a car i can enjoy regularly on the road eves and weekends, then just do the occasional track day without making the car unbearable on the road.
main pitfalls of the 996 turbo on track?
cheers
Oh, and at least one pitfall others cars are not prey to. Failed coolant pipes.
PPI and a slush fund. What I discovered with hindsight is that I would buy from a reputed specialist, JZM, RSJ and pay the extra for peace of mind and lack of stress. I bought one privately with a 6k saving, but rads and heatshields needed doing and suspension tired, but have since spent that on it in the first year with the addition of a fuel pump and clutch. As others have said they are old cars and suffer old car stuff, go and chat with your local indy and don't rush into it.
As previously mentioned, radiators are a concern. However doable for around 800 quid for all three on a DIY install basis (not difficult)
It's close to impossible to check them without taking the bumper off, but if there is any crud visible, even a little bit, then rest assured that there is a bucketful between the rads and the aircon condensers, which should also be replaced at the same time (120 quid off ebay, for both).
If you buy a 996 turbo, DO take the bumper off and pull away the aircon condensers so you can clean out all the muck. That will almost certainly extend their life by a number of years, unless they are already far gone.
In reality if rads have NOT been recently replaced, budget for them, as previous, not realistic to check for when inspecting.
I am replacing all three and will also put some discreet mesh behind the bumper vents so that hopefully they will stay clean.
Also, tyres. They are not just tyres. Replacement will cost around a grand for N rated tyres. Something like Falken 453s (non N rated) will save you perhaps 250 quid on all four, on Michelins, but when you come to sell, could cost you a lot more in depreciation if you get an astute buyer. Not to mention that the Michelins are supposed to be better than the Falkens anyway.
Indicator stalks. Eventually they fail, the plastic goes brittle. They are NOT repairable. Probably all early 996 turbos are at the age where this is a possibilty. From 200-300 quid on a DIY basis to replace (not difficult). So if any car you view has indicators that either do not hold, or do not self-cancel, you know what's needed.
Lower sus wishbones/"coffin arms" are also an item that will need replacing probably every 40k miles. Mine, with 60k, has had them done previously.
Rear spoiler struts leak. Mine (one side) does, slightly. Eventually spoiler will fail to rise properly. I believe around 400 quid for factory replacement struts, not sure. A DIY fix is available, for the competent. Search online.
One other thing. I have been unable to keep the battery connected when the car is not being used. 2 weeks and it's flat. Just to be aware, no big deal once you know about it.
The front bumper chin spoiler/splitter thingy - consider a wear item. Don't accord much importance to it's condition. You WILL scrape it. Many times.
Well, the above is already 2.5 grand's worth of what to look out for so do bear them in mind. Cheap cars with what might be considered minor faults on other vehicles, can very easily end up costing much more than a better and slightly dearer one. Buy the best you can afford and even then expect some bills.
It's close to impossible to check them without taking the bumper off, but if there is any crud visible, even a little bit, then rest assured that there is a bucketful between the rads and the aircon condensers, which should also be replaced at the same time (120 quid off ebay, for both).
If you buy a 996 turbo, DO take the bumper off and pull away the aircon condensers so you can clean out all the muck. That will almost certainly extend their life by a number of years, unless they are already far gone.
In reality if rads have NOT been recently replaced, budget for them, as previous, not realistic to check for when inspecting.
I am replacing all three and will also put some discreet mesh behind the bumper vents so that hopefully they will stay clean.
Also, tyres. They are not just tyres. Replacement will cost around a grand for N rated tyres. Something like Falken 453s (non N rated) will save you perhaps 250 quid on all four, on Michelins, but when you come to sell, could cost you a lot more in depreciation if you get an astute buyer. Not to mention that the Michelins are supposed to be better than the Falkens anyway.
Indicator stalks. Eventually they fail, the plastic goes brittle. They are NOT repairable. Probably all early 996 turbos are at the age where this is a possibilty. From 200-300 quid on a DIY basis to replace (not difficult). So if any car you view has indicators that either do not hold, or do not self-cancel, you know what's needed.
Lower sus wishbones/"coffin arms" are also an item that will need replacing probably every 40k miles. Mine, with 60k, has had them done previously.
Rear spoiler struts leak. Mine (one side) does, slightly. Eventually spoiler will fail to rise properly. I believe around 400 quid for factory replacement struts, not sure. A DIY fix is available, for the competent. Search online.
One other thing. I have been unable to keep the battery connected when the car is not being used. 2 weeks and it's flat. Just to be aware, no big deal once you know about it.
The front bumper chin spoiler/splitter thingy - consider a wear item. Don't accord much importance to it's condition. You WILL scrape it. Many times.
Well, the above is already 2.5 grand's worth of what to look out for so do bear them in mind. Cheap cars with what might be considered minor faults on other vehicles, can very easily end up costing much more than a better and slightly dearer one. Buy the best you can afford and even then expect some bills.
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