Engine oil - 20/50 or straight 40?
Discussion
Until now I have used a straight sae 40 or 30 engine oil in my vintage cars. However, I now use my vintage Vauxhall for occasional towing of my old caravan. The car bumbles along quite happily but I have noticed gets very hot and oil pressure drops from its normal 10 lbs to 5 lbs when running under normal but hot weather condition (Summer).
This raises the question as to whether I would be better off by using a classic mineral 20/50 multigrade? The engine was partially stripped down a couple of years back and all white metal bearings and so on found in good clean condition.
This raises the question as to whether I would be better off by using a classic mineral 20/50 multigrade? The engine was partially stripped down a couple of years back and all white metal bearings and so on found in good clean condition.
What kind of filtration does the engine have?
In many cases moving to a 20w-50 is a better choice, generally the engines were crying out for a decent multigrade the day they left the factory.
Last year I did John O' Groats to Lands End in a 1931 Austin 7, engine had been rebuilt and run in using standard gause filter. We ran that on synthetic 20w-50 and it is still going strong.
Cheers
Guy
In many cases moving to a 20w-50 is a better choice, generally the engines were crying out for a decent multigrade the day they left the factory.
Last year I did John O' Groats to Lands End in a 1931 Austin 7, engine had been rebuilt and run in using standard gause filter. We ran that on synthetic 20w-50 and it is still going strong.
Cheers
Guy
Thanks for response Guy, its a 2.8lt straight six OHV using its original (1928)bypass filter system. This amounts to a metal container with a cloth bag inside that is supposed to catch the crud, the oil is pumped through this at low pressure on its way into the top of the engine feeding the rockers and what not. The engine is designed to use one gallon of oil to every 1000 miles.
Lands End run in a 7, hats off to you Sir!
Lands End run in a 7, hats off to you Sir!
opieoilman said:
What kind of filtration does the engine have?
In many cases moving to a 20w-50 is a better choice, generally the engines were crying out for a decent multigrade the day they left the factory.
Last year I did John O' Groats to Lands End in a 1931 Austin 7, engine had been rebuilt and run in using standard gause filter. We ran that on synthetic 20w-50 and it is still going strong.
Cheers
Guy
Land's end in a 7!! I take it you're still in physiotherapy?In many cases moving to a 20w-50 is a better choice, generally the engines were crying out for a decent multigrade the day they left the factory.
Last year I did John O' Groats to Lands End in a 1931 Austin 7, engine had been rebuilt and run in using standard gause filter. We ran that on synthetic 20w-50 and it is still going strong.
Cheers
Guy
That's interesting about synth. We keep on hearing the purists stating that you can't run a classic on synth, but I see no technical reason why not.
Crankedup, am I correct in thinking that your VX has splash feed big ends explaining why you can run the engine with such low oil pressure? If so I would think that going down the synthetic route might just be to your advantage.
J
It took some doing in the A7 especially as I am over 6 foot! As I am in Cornwall to start with it was more cornwall to john o groats, and back to lands end!
No need to go for a synthetic, we were doing it to prove a point and I would not recommend it unless the engine is in good shape and fairly clean to srtart with. The A7 I was in had just been run in after a rebuild.
For the Vauxhall using a good 20w-50 would be ideal, just like all oils there are good and bad 20w-50's. I would go with either the Silkolene Silkolube 20w-50 or the Millers Classic Performance 20w-50 http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-1249-classic-engine-oi...
Cheers
Guy
No need to go for a synthetic, we were doing it to prove a point and I would not recommend it unless the engine is in good shape and fairly clean to srtart with. The A7 I was in had just been run in after a rebuild.
For the Vauxhall using a good 20w-50 would be ideal, just like all oils there are good and bad 20w-50's. I would go with either the Silkolene Silkolube 20w-50 or the Millers Classic Performance 20w-50 http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-1249-classic-engine-oi...
Cheers
Guy
crankedup
if you want I can give you my non-technical blurb with links to charts and various opinions on oil but to save that - basically oil is like tyres a lot more complex than taking the numbers at face value
as said the reason your car used a straight grade was simply that the multi-grades weren't readily available until the 1960s (that surprised me)
this chart will help you see the spread of numbers - http://www.teamrip.com/viscosity_chart.html
and this will hopefully explain more about one set of numbers, say 20w/50, not necessarily being exactly the same as another 20w/50 but nearer perhaps a 10w/60 (just a hypothetical example) - http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscos...
my pots and pans explanation - for example one particular SAE 30 oil may be close to being the same as another oil at SAE 40 in the same way a person in their 30s may not be that much younger than a person in their 40s as one could be 39 and the other 41 – or the difference could be a lot more, they are 31 and the other person 49
have a look at what grades of oil were recommended for use in your car for cold (winter) and warmer (summer) use and that gives you a start point for the spread of a multi-grade bearing in mind oils have improved in the last 20 years let alone 80 years
one thing that is often forgotten is that the oil needs changing more not less frequently on cars that do low mileage or mostly very short journeys
if you want I can give you my non-technical blurb with links to charts and various opinions on oil but to save that - basically oil is like tyres a lot more complex than taking the numbers at face value
as said the reason your car used a straight grade was simply that the multi-grades weren't readily available until the 1960s (that surprised me)
this chart will help you see the spread of numbers - http://www.teamrip.com/viscosity_chart.html
and this will hopefully explain more about one set of numbers, say 20w/50, not necessarily being exactly the same as another 20w/50 but nearer perhaps a 10w/60 (just a hypothetical example) - http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscos...
my pots and pans explanation - for example one particular SAE 30 oil may be close to being the same as another oil at SAE 40 in the same way a person in their 30s may not be that much younger than a person in their 40s as one could be 39 and the other 41 – or the difference could be a lot more, they are 31 and the other person 49
have a look at what grades of oil were recommended for use in your car for cold (winter) and warmer (summer) use and that gives you a start point for the spread of a multi-grade bearing in mind oils have improved in the last 20 years let alone 80 years
one thing that is often forgotten is that the oil needs changing more not less frequently on cars that do low mileage or mostly very short journeys
Edited by nta16 on Monday 29th April 17:14
jith said:
opieoilman said:
What kind of filtration does the engine have?
In many cases moving to a 20w-50 is a better choice, generally the engines were crying out for a decent multigrade the day they left the factory.
Last year I did John O' Groats to Lands End in a 1931 Austin 7, engine had been rebuilt and run in using standard gause filter. We ran that on synthetic 20w-50 and it is still going strong.
Cheers
Guy
Land's end in a 7!! I take it you're still in physiotherapy?In many cases moving to a 20w-50 is a better choice, generally the engines were crying out for a decent multigrade the day they left the factory.
Last year I did John O' Groats to Lands End in a 1931 Austin 7, engine had been rebuilt and run in using standard gause filter. We ran that on synthetic 20w-50 and it is still going strong.
Cheers
Guy
That's interesting about synth. We keep on hearing the purists stating that you can't run a classic on synth, but I see no technical reason why not.
Crankedup, am I correct in thinking that your VX has splash feed big ends explaining why you can run the engine with such low oil pressure? If so I would think that going down the synthetic route might just be to your advantage.
J
if you don't use the car in cold weather then the first number is less important
to be honest at that sort of mileage and use I'd be tempted to stay with a good quality classic/vintage oil possibly even monograde if the oil pressure you've quoted is within an acceptable range for the engine, pressure gauges were removed from cars to stop people over worrying about it plus you have to allow for accuracy of the gauge reading
you'll know this from the low numbers on the TVR gauges for the RV8 engines in them, a RV8 expert wrote of (Police?) Range Rovers that when pushed hard and hot wouldn't register any pressure on the gauges yet the engines ran fine and cars sold at 150,000 miles with engines still in good condition - later RR lost the pressure gauge
I'd suggest contacting a manufacturer of oils for vintage cars, used in this country, explaining as you have about the car, its mileage and use and see what they suggest, obviously it'll be one of their products but you'll see if they go for mono or multi and what range
the use of the term and description of 'synthetic' in synthetic oil is a bit stretched and I don't think you need worry about it too much with your use, just as usual you want a good quality oil suitable for your car and its use
as for the oil and filter changes as you probably know the thoroughness is as important as the regularity, each change get the oil as warm as possible and leave to drain for as long as possible to get as much muck and existing oil out as possible
to be honest at that sort of mileage and use I'd be tempted to stay with a good quality classic/vintage oil possibly even monograde if the oil pressure you've quoted is within an acceptable range for the engine, pressure gauges were removed from cars to stop people over worrying about it plus you have to allow for accuracy of the gauge reading
you'll know this from the low numbers on the TVR gauges for the RV8 engines in them, a RV8 expert wrote of (Police?) Range Rovers that when pushed hard and hot wouldn't register any pressure on the gauges yet the engines ran fine and cars sold at 150,000 miles with engines still in good condition - later RR lost the pressure gauge
I'd suggest contacting a manufacturer of oils for vintage cars, used in this country, explaining as you have about the car, its mileage and use and see what they suggest, obviously it'll be one of their products but you'll see if they go for mono or multi and what range
the use of the term and description of 'synthetic' in synthetic oil is a bit stretched and I don't think you need worry about it too much with your use, just as usual you want a good quality oil suitable for your car and its use
as for the oil and filter changes as you probably know the thoroughness is as important as the regularity, each change get the oil as warm as possible and leave to drain for as long as possible to get as much muck and existing oil out as possible
just thought - your engine coolant system is fully clean and clear inside and out and all components working properly to help dissipate engine heat
I don't know if yours has a thermostat but if it does(?) you might put in one that opens a bit sooner with perhaps a rad blind for colder use
anything you can do about the fuel and running temperature(?)
I also think keeping the rest of the drive chain well lubed helps keep the heat down too, gearbox and diff oils are often forgotten about as far as oil changes go (or even keeping them topped up)
no doubt you keep things well greased to keep them moving freely and as your towing you'd soon know about if anything on the car is causing more drag than usual
as you can tell I know nothing much of 1928 cars - or even what it looks like
I don't know if yours has a thermostat but if it does(?) you might put in one that opens a bit sooner with perhaps a rad blind for colder use
anything you can do about the fuel and running temperature(?)
I also think keeping the rest of the drive chain well lubed helps keep the heat down too, gearbox and diff oils are often forgotten about as far as oil changes go (or even keeping them topped up)
no doubt you keep things well greased to keep them moving freely and as your towing you'd soon know about if anything on the car is causing more drag than usual
as you can tell I know nothing much of 1928 cars - or even what it looks like
blimey that is a big old bus, unlike the caravan
what a lovely combination
and I never knew such forums were on here
I should think the cooling system is pretty basic on that (even more so than a Spridget heater tap) and it was an older design of car even for 1928 (could be wrong as I don't often see cars that old)
what a lovely combination
and I never knew such forums were on here
I should think the cooling system is pretty basic on that (even more so than a Spridget heater tap) and it was an older design of car even for 1928 (could be wrong as I don't often see cars that old)
It is amazing running a RV8 on LPG as the oil never changes colour, I had to take the sump off at over at 100k, because the car has been on gas since nearly new the internals looked like new, and no sludge in the sump. It will run on gas 30 secs after starting so no overfueling washing oil off the bores as well.Now 130+k running on classic 20/50 and molyslip. Pot temp is more so cooling has to be kept in good order.
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