Moving on from the 60s,..

[Bezza1969]

Reading an article about a Citroen BX 16 valve GTI on the main forum, I was taken with the enthusiasm many ph'ers had for this car as they do for many niche vehicles from the 80s and 90s. Many people seem to love GTI stuff from 20-25 years ago. So I'm really wondering aloud, do you think the Classic car press/classic car arena in general will ever move on from the 1960s (together with 1970s) fodder that always seems to dominate. My generation (mid 40s) started driving when hot hatches and Audi Quattro type stuff were all the rage and consequently get nostalgic now about those vehicles, so is it not time that original versions of these cars started getting more exposure? I dunno about you, but I find something like a BX 16 valve a whole lot more interesting than say a Humber Sceptre, or a Triumph Spitfire! I may be a in class of one however!

[Lowtimer]

I think someone said, commenting on the BX story, that the late 80s early 90s are just about the zenith of car design. I think that's right, and since then it's mostly been downhill. In that era we have the benefits of serious computer power at the design phase, to give good suspension geometrey and strong. light bodysheels, combined with really good build quality, good crash resistance etc, yet before the plague of modern designs with their embedded complication and the massive increases in size, weight and wheel diameter that ruin most modern cars. I am sure that the better cars of the late '80s and early '90s will soon have their day, because they are probably the most capable cars which can be kept running using DIY skills.

[solid61]

Lowtimer said:

I think someone said, commenting on the BX story, that the late 80s early 90s are just about the zenith of car design. I think that's right, and since then it's mostly been downhill. In that era we have the benefits of serious computer power at the design phase, to give good suspension geometrey and strong. light bodysheels, combined with really good build quality, good crash resistance etc, yet before the plague of modern designs with their embedded complication and the massive increases in size, weight and wheel diameter that ruin most modern cars. I am sure that the better cars of the late '80s and early '90s will soon have their day, because they are probably the most capable cars which can be kept running using DIY skills.

100% correct.

[midgeman]

Designed by computers, not run by them. I can't see how any 'modern' car could be restorable with all the electronics.

I'v had several mk1/2 Golfs, great cars and I like the 'retro' hot hatches
Would love an original Saab 99 turbo (amongst many, many others)

[Simes205]

Many of the monthly classic car magazines seem to do a yearly feature on the 205GTI along with other Iconic cars from the era so I guess so.
More niche mags will pick out rarer oddities. They appeal to people of my age group I guess at school in the 80's.

My dad has a couple of cars from the '50's, he went to school then..

[lowdrag]

As someone welded to the 60's, I admit to owning and loving my GTi 1600 and 16 valve 1800, but I am curious to hear from you younger set as to which cars you feel are iconic from the 80/90's. I have some ideas of my own (probably ludicrous), but prefer to keep my powder dry and await your responses.

[truck71]

solid61 said:

Lowtimer said:

I think someone said, commenting on the BX story, that the late 80s early 90s are just about the zenith of car design. I think that's right, and since then it's mostly been downhill. In that era we have the benefits of serious computer power at the design phase, to give good suspension geometrey and strong. light bodysheels, combined with really good build quality, good crash resistance etc, yet before the plague of modern designs with their embedded complication and the massive increases in size, weight and wheel diameter that ruin most modern cars. I am sure that the better cars of the late '80s and early '90s will soon have their day, because they are probably the most capable cars which can be kept running using DIY skills.

100% correct.

Plus 1. Thinking back to the cars we've had in the family, E30/E34/E36 BMW's, Saab 99 turbo, Mk1/2 Golf GTI's, Scirocco they absolutely strike the balance of being thoroughly engineered without being portly and over complicated (Saab gearbox perhaps being the only exception) but it's a mechanical one rather than electronic. E34 M5, still understated and not hit the prices of the E28 hmmm.. Incidently all of the above were used and most run during the late eighties/early nineties- certainly we wouldn't have been able to buy them new.

[Rapierdave]

I've noticed at classic car shows i attend with the Opel Manta club that there is a lot of interest now in late seventies to early nineties cars.
I like looking at all cars from all eras bu my favorites are seventies & eighties (i'm in my fifties)

[Pistom]

There were some great cars in the 80s but the styling had turned less interesting, more compromised, function over form.

[mikey77]

There's a whole raft of magazines in France now on the subject of cars from the 70s, 80s and 90s.
They call them 'youngtimers'.

[LuS1fer]

Hey, I grew up in the 60s and 70s but really couldn't afford cars until the 80s.

I appreciate 60s and 70s classics but have no love for Sceptres and their ilk as my main recollection of such cars was rust and filler. So for me, classics now embrace both 80s and 90s machines which have lasted far better.

For me, the advent of decent brakes and handling make later cars a better proposition.

Ultimately, that's why i drive a modern retro Mustang, not a classic.

[onomatopoeia]

Bezza1969 said:

Reading an article about a Citroen BX 16 valve GTI on the main forum, I was taken with the enthusiasm many ph'ers had for this car as they do for many niche vehicles from the 80s and 90s. Many people seem to love GTI stuff from 20-25 years ago. So I'm really wondering aloud, do you think the Classic car press/classic car arena in general will ever move on from the 1960s (together with 1970s) fodder that always seems to dominate. My generation (mid 40s) started driving when hot hatches and Audi Quattro type stuff were all the rage and consequently get nostalgic now about those vehicles, so is it not time that original versions of these cars started getting more exposure? I dunno about you, but I find something like a BX 16 valve a whole lot more interesting than say a Humber Sceptre, or a Triumph Spitfire! I may be a in class of one however!

I'm that generation as well (44 in a couple of months) and to me stuff like the Michelotti Triumphs on the 60s and 70s, or the Imp (obviously, see my profile) or even the Rover P6 and Humber Super Snipe are more interesting as classics.

I owned a BX 19 16v around 1993-94, it was about seven or eight years old at the time and I would have been 23 - cost me £750 to insure fully comp the first year after a LOT of phoning around. I liked it a lot, I'm sure because it was the first genuinely modern and quick car I'd owned (Marina, Ital and Imp before that). Very quick as it was light (lots of fibreglass panels from memory) so would give most things short of the Sierra Cosworth a run for thier money, comfortable, and the 1905cc engine produced 160bhp - plenty for a NA engine with no variable valve timing of the time, though it did result in a lumpy idle at around 1000rpm. Not bad handling for a FWD car of that era either.

Problem is that fond as I was of it, for me it's too like a modern to be a "classic" - electronic everything, front wheel drive, hatchback ...

[Hooli]

lowdrag said:

As someone welded to the 60's, I admit to owning and loving my GTi 1600 and 16 valve 1800, but I am curious to hear from you younger set as to which cars you feel are iconic from the 80/90's. I have some ideas of my own (probably ludicrous), but prefer to keep my powder dry and await your responses.

RS1600i but they seem to have 'classic prices' already.

[Penguinracer]

I think build quality of some of the German brands (Mercedes-Benz, BMW & Porsche)probably peaked in the early '90's before cost cutting & expansion of production to off-shore plants had an impact. The exception is probably Audi which has continued to improve in quality if not in vehicle dynamics.

[Yertis]

Penguinracer said:

I think build quality of some of the German brands (Mercedes-Benz, BMW & Porsche)probably peaked in the early '90's before cost cutting & expansion of production to off-shore plants had an impact. The exception is probably Audi which has continued to improve in quality if not in vehicle dynamics.

I'm not sure Audi are an exception. The C4 100S4 I owned was far better built than the C5 AllRoad I'm running at the moment. In fact my 1988 urQuattro is better built than the AllRoad, IMO. Drove it to work today, lovely thing.

[Bezza1969]

Funny you should mention Audi S4100 as I have a real crush on the Audi 200 Turbo from the mid to late 80s! what a car, still fairly quick now, built like a nuclear bomb shelter and fairly aerodynamic.

I totally agree that 80s-90s were the zenith of car design. Since then all cars have done is put on weight, get too complex and become too fast for the road and over-tyred. As a 205 GTI 1.9 owner, I seriously would not trade in that car for any of the newer hot hatches and I dont care that It wont outdrag a modern turbo diesel. The steering feel is the best of anything Ive ever driven.

...so may be, seeing as Classic Car/Classic and Sports car wont shift from their 60/70s fixations, there is space for a new Car mag, entitled perhaps as one gent has already said "Youngtimer"...!!

A mag featuring 80s hot hatches, E30 M3s, Mercedes 190e cosworths, Sierra cossies, classic impreza turbos, early elise's, clio williams, Audi Quattros and so on, Id buy it!!

Edited by Bezza1969 on Friday 19th April 19:54

[davepoth]

Bezza1969 said:

Funny you should mention Audi S4100 as I have a real crush on the Audi 200 Turbo from the mid to late 80s! what a car, still fairly quick now, built like a nuclear bomb shelter and fairly aerodynamic.

I totally agree that 80s-90s were the zenith of car design. Since then all cars have done is put on weight, get too complex and become too fast for the road and over-tyred. As a 205 GTI 1.9 owner, I seriously would not trade in that car for any of the newer hot hatches and I dont care that It wont outdrag a modern turbo diesel. The steering feel is the best of anything Ive ever driven.

...so may be, seeing as Classic Car/Classic and Sports car wont shift from their 60/70s fixations, there is space for a new Car mag, entitled perhaps as one gent has already said "Youngtimer"...!!

A mag featuring 80s hot hatches, E30 M3s, Mercedes 190e cosworths, Sierra cossies, classic impreza turbos, early elise's, clio williams, Audi Quattros and so on, Id buy it!!

Edited by Bezza1969 on Friday 19th April 19:54

Practical classics this month has a 1980 Fiat X 1/9, Audi Quattro Coupe, Maserati Biturbo, Porsche 944S, Volvo 740, a 1991 Jag XJ, a 1982 Ital, an MX-5, a 1994 Renault Alpine A610, tech tips on a Ford Racing Puma, and a buyers' guide for the 85-90 Celica. This was probably one of the more "classic" months for them too, with a fair bit on Mk1 Escorts and MGBs. It's a broad church.

[dbdb]

davepoth said:

Practical classics this month has a 1980 Fiat X 1/9, Audi Quattro Coupe, Maserati Biturbo, Porsche 944S, Volvo 740, a 1991 Jag XJ, a 1982 Ital, an MX-5, a 1994 Renault Alpine A610, tech tips on a Ford Racing Puma, and a buyers' guide for the 85-90 Celica. This was probably one of the more "classic" months for them too, with a fair bit on Mk1 Escorts and MGBs. It's a broad church.

I might look out for that magazine - I also grew up in the '80s, so my main interest is 'Seventies, 'Eighties and early 'Ninties cars. I'd enjoy reading about any of those.

I used to buy Classic and Sportscar and Classic cars regularly from the mid 1980s to about 2000 - my attic is full of them. I stopped buying them because they seemed unwilling to move on, content to review the same era of cars over and over, their taste preserved in aspic. I don't remember this being true back in the '80s; there didn't seem to be the same intensity of debate as to what consituted a 'classic' and what would be excluded.

By the look of things this is changing - or it could be I have been looking in the wrong places and at the wrong magazines.