Swinley Forest - not good news?
Discussion
Just opened an email from MadDad, and in it he mentioned Swinley. So I had a quick google, only for this to come up...
http://www.gorrick.com/swinley/
"A single direction cycle trail loop in Swinley Forest starting and finishing at The Look Out Discovery Centre has been put together now and together with the fire roads will be the only trail available to cyclists from April 2013. We understand that all the other single track trails through the Forest will be stopped up, blocked or grubbed up, as cycling on these routes will no longer be allowed. Forest rangers will be patrolling the Forest to ensure that cyclists keep to the new marked trails at all times."
WTF? "Owned" by the Crown Estate? Owned since when? 1066? Stolen from it's rightful owner, or more likely from use by commoners, by Norman invaders, more like.
#republicantendencies
Seriously, though. The banner at the top of the webpage I linked to proclaims "Mountainbike UK, Trail of the Year, 2004"
Reducing it all down to one loop and some fire roads does not seem like progress. Damn it all, I wish I'd visited it before, as it doesn't sound like it'll be a blast from April onwards.
This...
http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/news-media/news/20...
... on the Crown Estate's own site, sounds much more positive about off road cycling in Swinley Forest: "Mountain biking is not permitted elsewhere on the Windsor estate and so we want to focus resources on providing excellence in Swinley Forest".
Who do I believe? The landowner, or a prominent local MTB group who've been going for over 20 years? Any reports from boots on the ground would be appreciated.
http://www.gorrick.com/swinley/
"A single direction cycle trail loop in Swinley Forest starting and finishing at The Look Out Discovery Centre has been put together now and together with the fire roads will be the only trail available to cyclists from April 2013. We understand that all the other single track trails through the Forest will be stopped up, blocked or grubbed up, as cycling on these routes will no longer be allowed. Forest rangers will be patrolling the Forest to ensure that cyclists keep to the new marked trails at all times."
WTF? "Owned" by the Crown Estate? Owned since when? 1066? Stolen from it's rightful owner, or more likely from use by commoners, by Norman invaders, more like.
#republicantendencies
Seriously, though. The banner at the top of the webpage I linked to proclaims "Mountainbike UK, Trail of the Year, 2004"
Reducing it all down to one loop and some fire roads does not seem like progress. Damn it all, I wish I'd visited it before, as it doesn't sound like it'll be a blast from April onwards.
This...
http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/news-media/news/20...
... on the Crown Estate's own site, sounds much more positive about off road cycling in Swinley Forest: "Mountain biking is not permitted elsewhere on the Windsor estate and so we want to focus resources on providing excellence in Swinley Forest".
Who do I believe? The landowner, or a prominent local MTB group who've been going for over 20 years? Any reports from boots on the ground would be appreciated.
i'm not sure i understand why you have an objection to this. they are simply laying out signposted routes and keeping flow to one direction. all the usual routes will be available to ride, they are just introducing some structure to it. seems sensible to me. i hope i'm not sleepwalking into some communist regime by not being concerned by this. we went to swinley on the 23rd march when the signs were up and the routes were being finished. looked ok to me...
if as they say there are 170,000 riders using the forest for riding, there clearly needs to be some form of structure. if you don't like it, do your mtb'ing elsewhere. there is masses of much better stuff in and around the chilterns anyway.... and it's not full of that horrible sandy stuff that you get at swinley that grinds away at all your components!
if as they say there are 170,000 riders using the forest for riding, there clearly needs to be some form of structure. if you don't like it, do your mtb'ing elsewhere. there is masses of much better stuff in and around the chilterns anyway.... and it's not full of that horrible sandy stuff that you get at swinley that grinds away at all your components!
Rob_T said:
i'm not sure i understand why you have an objection to this. they are simply laying out signposted routes and keeping flow to one direction. all the usual routes will be available to ride, they are just introducing some structure to it. seems sensible to me. i hope i'm not sleepwalking into some communist regime by not being concerned by this. we went to swinley on the 23rd march when the signs were up and the routes were being finished. looked ok to me...
if as they say there are 170,000 riders using the forest for riding, there clearly needs to be some form of structure. if you don't like it, do your mtb'ing elsewhere. there is masses of much better stuff in and around the chilterns anyway.... and it's not full of that horrible sandy stuff that you get at swinley that grinds away at all your components!
Cheers for the response, Rob T, pretty much what I was looking for, although a little 'stiff' in it's tone ( if as they say there are 170,000 riders using the forest for riding, there clearly needs to be some form of structure. if you don't like it, do your mtb'ing elsewhere. there is masses of much better stuff in and around the chilterns anyway.... and it's not full of that horrible sandy stuff that you get at swinley that grinds away at all your components!
). I try not to object to anything I haven't witnessed for myself, and hadn't formed an opinion either way on this subject, hence the '?' in the thread title. What I wanted was a first hand account of what it's really like NOW. As I said in my opener, I've not been there yet, but MadDad recommended it, so I googled it and came up with the rather dour and downbeat article on the Gorrick site, and the triumphant fanfare from the landowner. Knowing that both parties have a vested interest, I wanted to know what a 'neutral' user's view would be.I was under the impression that, in the past, a paid-for permit was required to ride Swinley, but it seems that Crown Estate won't be administering such a scheme in future. Is this correct, and if so, I presume that if I cycle to Swinley I can ride for free. I imagine car parking still needs to be paid for?
Also, most importantly, is there anywhere to buy cake? There always needs to be a 'cake stop'
Hi YellowJack,
The carpark needs to be paid for (At "The lookout") There are places in the estate next door which you could park on and then cycle across.
The lookout sells cake, bacon rolls etc. Fairly expensive for what you get. This is next to where the blue trial starts and ends.
I've been round the blue once and the blue and red and then firetrack back once and had a great time both times.
Last year I went about 8 times. We managed to find a lot of the single track but certainly not all of it.
I think for people going to Swinley for the first time, it new layout is way way better. You can't miss loads of good routes because of it. Previously those who went there without a guide would miss most of the routes.
I know a guy at work who practically lives there and he is having a good old moan about it so for the very experienced locals it is worse but for the occasional visitor it is better.
Cheers, Andrew.
The carpark needs to be paid for (At "The lookout") There are places in the estate next door which you could park on and then cycle across.
The lookout sells cake, bacon rolls etc. Fairly expensive for what you get. This is next to where the blue trial starts and ends.
I've been round the blue once and the blue and red and then firetrack back once and had a great time both times.
Last year I went about 8 times. We managed to find a lot of the single track but certainly not all of it.
I think for people going to Swinley for the first time, it new layout is way way better. You can't miss loads of good routes because of it. Previously those who went there without a guide would miss most of the routes.
I know a guy at work who practically lives there and he is having a good old moan about it so for the very experienced locals it is worse but for the occasional visitor it is better.
Cheers, Andrew.
As said, it's good if you're not familiar but maybe not if you're used to hacking out your own routes. But some thoughts.
Some good sections. Some of its a bit too flat and pedally, really twisty and could do with some variation.
Some nice little jumps on the red but I think a few people are going to nail themselves after Sundays observations. Middle aged trail riders trying to jump is cringeworthy
Shame some of the faster sections don't have jumps as they're on the blue.
Overall, ok. Don't think I'll be heading back for a while unless everywhere else is too wet.
Some good sections. Some of its a bit too flat and pedally, really twisty and could do with some variation.
Some nice little jumps on the red but I think a few people are going to nail themselves after Sundays observations. Middle aged trail riders trying to jump is cringeworthy
Shame some of the faster sections don't have jumps as they're on the blue.
Overall, ok. Don't think I'll be heading back for a while unless everywhere else is too wet.
joema said:
As said, it's good if you're not familiar but maybe not if you're used to hacking out your own routes. But some thoughts.
Some good sections. Some of its a bit too flat and pedally, really twisty and could do with some variation.
Some nice little jumps on the red but I think a few people are going to nail themselves after Sundays observations. Middle aged trail riders trying to jump is cringeworthy
Shame some of the faster sections don't have jumps as they're on the blue.
Overall, ok. Don't think I'll be heading back for a while unless everywhere else is too wet.
I'm sure you'll be missed.Some good sections. Some of its a bit too flat and pedally, really twisty and could do with some variation.
Some nice little jumps on the red but I think a few people are going to nail themselves after Sundays observations. Middle aged trail riders trying to jump is cringeworthy
Shame some of the faster sections don't have jumps as they're on the blue.
Overall, ok. Don't think I'll be heading back for a while unless everywhere else is too wet.
joema said:
Some nice little jumps on the red but I think a few people are going to nail themselves after Sundays observations. Middle aged trail riders trying to jump is cringeworthy
Is it the age of people riding that you take issue with, or the fact that some riders may not be of the same ability as you? If the former, perhaps you should consider how many years those elderly riders might have been riding for, and if the latter surely the fact that they are trying to improve and are willing to risk breaking their brittle old arthritic bones is a good thing for mtb'ing as a whole? Surely the more people involved and riding the trails means more funding for trail building and facilities? Perhaps I've misunderstood your meaning, but as I'm now 41 and probably part of your "middle aged" category I thought I'd ask.
Sorry, shouldn't have generalised. I should elaborate, perhaps I should have done previously. By no means do I mean people shouldn't try and improve themselves at any age.
It's more the lemming style, accident waiting to happen type thing... There are jumps there. Theyre not big but they will break you. Attempting to pop off or do a whip over every single mound with the stiffest upright back isnt going to go well. I
I'll stop digging myself a hole.
It's more the lemming style, accident waiting to happen type thing... There are jumps there. Theyre not big but they will break you. Attempting to pop off or do a whip over every single mound with the stiffest upright back isnt going to go well. I
I'll stop digging myself a hole.
Ignore me, it's my age making me grumpy 
I will start by saying I have been riding Swinners for the best part of 15 or 16 years now, and can still remember when the trails were a lot more like animal runs than singletrack. I could ride for 3 hours on a Sunday morning and meet maybe 3 or 4 other riders and not cross my tracks - bliss!
Gradually the place became more and more popular, 'animal runs' turned into semi-formal singletrack, and the expert area appeared, passes were required to ride and it began to become very popular. Although the change was gradual I can remember getting the hump at the time thinking I wanted my forest back! That said some good came of the change in the way of trail maintenance and public liability insurance!
Over the past couple of years the place became busier and busier with articles appearing in the cycling press attracting riders from out of the area, on Sunday mornings the main car park is awash with MTB-ers - not a bad thing but the more obvious trails were beginning to get congested. Also, because the trails were more recognisable I would often meet joggers, families out for a walk or MTB-ers coming 'the wrong way' - on some of the trails this could be downright bloody dangerous! One very memorable Sunday morning I was cannoning down the Deerstalker, hit the last but one berm at speed only to be confronted by about 20 joggers making their way up the trail - not sure who swore the most!
The transition from a loose collection of rooty trails into a trail center was only a matter of time (in my mind). When the plans were announced last year my heart sank, I could not understand why it is not possible to have a couple of sanitized trail centre type routes and retain the rough and rooty trails 'the locals' know and love so much (TBH I still don't understand why it is not possible).
I rode the blue trail last week, and as much as I wanted to hate it I have to say it was a blast! There are a few sections where it is a bit bland, and a few drags along a fireroad to link the trail together, but overall I quite enjoyed it! I did two loops on a Tuesday evening, on the first loop I came up against quite a bit of 'traffic', a family struggling along on bikes that were really not suited to the trail, then about half a dozen kids on fairly shagged looking MTB's and BMX's repeatedly riding a short section of downhill. On the second run I more or less had it to myself bar one chap who moved out of the way and a lady on an MTB with a dog.
Here is a video of my second run; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPQhBDqYOhk
I am not happy about the loss of the rooty trails, but the Crowthorne Woods trails will remain untouched, so the corkscrew and trails in the 'burnt' section will remain open (but lets keep them secret eh?).
I have resigned myself to the fact that many of my favorite sections of singletrack will be ploughed over and made unrideable, apparently that is just progress! What concerns me more is how the new trails will be managed, some of the sections are quite fast with high sided berms and I can see many an inexperienced rider coming acropper - I believe in the first weekend paramedics had to attend the trail three times (although this might just be 'urban legend).
There is a two mile section of 'green' trail open to families, but there is nothing at all to stop anyone jumping onto the Blue or Red and having a go - regardless of kit, experience or competence. Aside from the potential damage that they can (will) do to themselves and potentially others I wonder how long it will be before huge braking holes appear into the berms and before the few small jumps.....
I can also see congestion being a big issue on warm sunny weekends, in the past the more 'committed' riders could take to the more gnarly/rooty sections that the 'occasional' riders would take one look at and avoid, with the new layout that won't happen.
Overall I have mixed feelings, I will really miss 'my' old trails and loops, I did enjoy the Blue loop and am looking forward to having a go on the Red trail, but for me the attraction to Swinley has always been the ability to pick and choose when you get there, mix things up with some technical/rooty climbs and fast descents. There is an argument to say similar riding is available in the Chilterns and Surrey Hills - and I would not argue that is the case but Swinley was accessible, self contained and extremely friendly with a friendly group of regular riders.
While the 'new Swinley' is going to be a nice place to do a few loops of an evening I don't think it will be possible to do the 18-25 mile rides I used to do without eventually getting bored, and covering your tracks several times.
I don't know, maybe I was spoilt in the past but it feels a bit like 6 steps forward and half a dozen backwards......
Gradually the place became more and more popular, 'animal runs' turned into semi-formal singletrack, and the expert area appeared, passes were required to ride and it began to become very popular. Although the change was gradual I can remember getting the hump at the time thinking I wanted my forest back! That said some good came of the change in the way of trail maintenance and public liability insurance!
Over the past couple of years the place became busier and busier with articles appearing in the cycling press attracting riders from out of the area, on Sunday mornings the main car park is awash with MTB-ers - not a bad thing but the more obvious trails were beginning to get congested. Also, because the trails were more recognisable I would often meet joggers, families out for a walk or MTB-ers coming 'the wrong way' - on some of the trails this could be downright bloody dangerous! One very memorable Sunday morning I was cannoning down the Deerstalker, hit the last but one berm at speed only to be confronted by about 20 joggers making their way up the trail - not sure who swore the most!
The transition from a loose collection of rooty trails into a trail center was only a matter of time (in my mind). When the plans were announced last year my heart sank, I could not understand why it is not possible to have a couple of sanitized trail centre type routes and retain the rough and rooty trails 'the locals' know and love so much (TBH I still don't understand why it is not possible).
I rode the blue trail last week, and as much as I wanted to hate it I have to say it was a blast! There are a few sections where it is a bit bland, and a few drags along a fireroad to link the trail together, but overall I quite enjoyed it! I did two loops on a Tuesday evening, on the first loop I came up against quite a bit of 'traffic', a family struggling along on bikes that were really not suited to the trail, then about half a dozen kids on fairly shagged looking MTB's and BMX's repeatedly riding a short section of downhill. On the second run I more or less had it to myself bar one chap who moved out of the way and a lady on an MTB with a dog.
Here is a video of my second run; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPQhBDqYOhk
I am not happy about the loss of the rooty trails, but the Crowthorne Woods trails will remain untouched, so the corkscrew and trails in the 'burnt' section will remain open (but lets keep them secret eh?
).I have resigned myself to the fact that many of my favorite sections of singletrack will be ploughed over and made unrideable, apparently that is just progress! What concerns me more is how the new trails will be managed, some of the sections are quite fast with high sided berms and I can see many an inexperienced rider coming acropper - I believe in the first weekend paramedics had to attend the trail three times (although this might just be 'urban legend).
There is a two mile section of 'green' trail open to families, but there is nothing at all to stop anyone jumping onto the Blue or Red and having a go - regardless of kit, experience or competence. Aside from the potential damage that they can (will) do to themselves and potentially others I wonder how long it will be before huge braking holes appear into the berms and before the few small jumps.....
I can also see congestion being a big issue on warm sunny weekends, in the past the more 'committed' riders could take to the more gnarly/rooty sections that the 'occasional' riders would take one look at and avoid, with the new layout that won't happen.
Overall I have mixed feelings, I will really miss 'my' old trails and loops, I did enjoy the Blue loop and am looking forward to having a go on the Red trail, but for me the attraction to Swinley has always been the ability to pick and choose when you get there, mix things up with some technical/rooty climbs and fast descents. There is an argument to say similar riding is available in the Chilterns and Surrey Hills - and I would not argue that is the case but Swinley was accessible, self contained and extremely friendly with a friendly group of regular riders.
While the 'new Swinley' is going to be a nice place to do a few loops of an evening I don't think it will be possible to do the 18-25 mile rides I used to do without eventually getting bored, and covering your tracks several times.
I don't know, maybe I was spoilt in the past but it feels a bit like 6 steps forward and half a dozen backwards......
Agree mostly with MadDad, I don't think it would be too bad if braking holes appear, it will add some interest. Ridden the red and blue a few times and the blue does get congested but the red is much less busy. Annoyingly snapped my hard tail there Wednesday, so try not to laugh too hard if you see me dragging a downhill bike round.
Looking forward to going and welcome the change. All the local riders I know think the same way too and have enjoyed their rides there.
I very rarely went to Swinley even though I can cycle there from home (coming in handily just by the Clubhouse). The reason.... There's plenty of other natural trails in the area that are just as good and a lot less congested. My 3 hour Sunday ride can be done without seeing another single bike and no ride is ever the same.
The new Swinley will now add variety. If I want natural & rooty, I'll keep to my usual trails. If I fancy a more trail centre ride then I know where to get it without putting the bike in the back of the car. I'll probably wait until I've got a day off though to avoid the crowds.
I very rarely went to Swinley even though I can cycle there from home (coming in handily just by the Clubhouse). The reason.... There's plenty of other natural trails in the area that are just as good and a lot less congested. My 3 hour Sunday ride can be done without seeing another single bike and no ride is ever the same.
The new Swinley will now add variety. If I want natural & rooty, I'll keep to my usual trails. If I fancy a more trail centre ride then I know where to get it without putting the bike in the back of the car. I'll probably wait until I've got a day off though to avoid the crowds.
Is the red open or is it a combination of old stuff plus new? Looks as though combining the red and blue would make a decent distance. Ridden there before but wouldn't call myself a regular by any means. Seemed to find new stuff every time but maybe I was riding the same stuff the other way round and didn't realise. Looking forward to a trip at some point soon.
I am assuming the expert area remains as is as I saw a new start section had been laid for one of the DHs? (deerstalker I think, never know the names)
Also I wonder if the gully jumps will remain as they are unofficial and the source of many accidents. Although that area has already been logged heavily and not such a nice spot anymore.
Also I wonder if the gully jumps will remain as they are unofficial and the source of many accidents. Although that area has already been logged heavily and not such a nice spot anymore.
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