Thinking of Revo tinkering!
Discussion
Having seen Monkey Harris's vid on the S4vRS4 and its upgrade using the Revo method i got looking on its website and they do Porsche's as well. Now ive never been into aftermarket upgrades, always thinking that apart from an exhaust then Porsche know what they are doing and its probably not worth trying to do more. But owning a Tip C4S, i know im slightly slower theoretically than the manual. Is there mileage in going for a £500 software upgrade that will give me about 20bhp more and more importantly 12-18 lb/ft torque? Anyone done it? Would it be noticeable?
On a 911 with 3800c engine you can get 25-30BHP peak with better mid-range gains, but you'd need a performance filter, manifolds, high-flow cats and a remap, that should yield 370-380BHP.
Could also try larger plenum and GT3 throttle body too, but nothing concrete it works. But 997.2 cars have the larger throttle body as do GT cars and they make more power. So it might be good or 5-10 horsepower across the rev range.
Could also try larger plenum and GT3 throttle body too, but nothing concrete it works. But 997.2 cars have the larger throttle body as do GT cars and they make more power. So it might be good or 5-10 horsepower across the rev range.
SCOM used to be a REVO dealer. I think they can install it FOC (or for minimal cost) for a trial period and if you like it you pay to keep it - it's got some kind of time-bomb so it only lasts 6 hours or so unless you cough up. That sounds like a company confident in their product and there's little risk in giving it a go.
IMO, it's not worth it on a normally aspirated car unless you go wild and match a remap with other breathing changes such as filters, exhausts etc etc. Not cheap, especially when considered in cost per hp gained terms.
On a turbo or supercharged car, like that S4(*), there are big gains to be had, gains you can really feel. On NA cars, it's barely noticeable, if it's there at all.
Forced induction cars (usually) give up power quite easily - not so normally aspirated cars, or at least not without spending big.
(*) The B8 S4 is particularly tuneable - a remap and smaller supercharger pulley liberates well over 100hp.
On a turbo or supercharged car, like that S4(*), there are big gains to be had, gains you can really feel. On NA cars, it's barely noticeable, if it's there at all.
Forced induction cars (usually) give up power quite easily - not so normally aspirated cars, or at least not without spending big.
(*) The B8 S4 is particularly tuneable - a remap and smaller supercharger pulley liberates well over 100hp.
Edited by SunDiver on Thursday 4th April 23:28
petop said:
Having seen Monkey Harris's vid on the S4vRS4 and its upgrade using the Revo method i got looking on its website and they do Porsche's as well. Now ive never been into aftermarket upgrades, always thinking that apart from an exhaust then Porsche know what they are doing and its probably not worth trying to do more. But owning a Tip C4S, i know im slightly slower theoretically than the manual. Is there mileage in going for a £500 software upgrade that will give me about 20bhp more and more importantly 12-18 lb/ft torque? Anyone done it? Would it be noticeable?
A few years ago, the 997S.1 I used to own was 'live' mapped by no less than Wayne Schofield (Chip Wizards). As many on here will attest, Wayne is acknowledged as one of the best (if not the best) in the re-mapping business. I was there for the better part of a day (at not inconsiderable cost). We tried many different configurations (all based on existing maps, so we weren't starting from scratch) and the best result we could achieve was +12 (peak) BHP with some smaller increases lower in the rpm band. 6 BHP of this came from adjustments in the timing, whilst the other 6 came from correcting slightly over-rich fuelling. In standard spec, there simply wasn't any way to get more from this engine. You can do no more to the fuelling than optimise it - once done, there's nowhere else to go down that route. Where timing was concerned, any attempt to add more than a couple of degrees just caused the knock sensors to pull it back again - again a hard limit on what was possible. (And yes, the car was running on a fresh tank of V-Power).
The simple conclusions are.... 1) Anyone claiming an increase of over ~12 BHP from a remap alone, on this engine, is (to be polite) stretching the truth. 2) The engine is very well mapped directly from the factory. 3) For an increase of just 3% peak, that you honestly can't feel, the whole exercise is a complete waste of money. 4) The gains from a re-map are smaller than the gains you get from running 99-RON fuel rather than 95-RON 5)Unless you have access to a PIWIS that can re-flash the entire ECU back to factory spec, any remap will be visible come warranty or resale time to the detriment of the car's value. Again for a tiny 3% increase, this isn't worth the pain.
For me, the only time mapping the 3.8 M97 engine makes any sense is if other mods have been carried-out.
Waste of time unless you go down the route of Induction Kit / Exhaust / Custom Remap to take advantage of better breathing.
Basic remaps just alter basic fuel and timing and its a generic map for the engine.
If you have a Turbo its different as you up the boost pressure as well as the fuel and timing so you will then see big gains.
Basic remaps just alter basic fuel and timing and its a generic map for the engine.
If you have a Turbo its different as you up the boost pressure as well as the fuel and timing so you will then see big gains.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm not sure this applies in these circumstances when the advice to the OP is overwhelmingly that remapping his car won't improve its performance in any meaningful or noticeable way. With a budget of £500 (what he said the Revo remap would cost) he's not going to get a faster car. So, unless he is already a professional driver - or otherwise a very skilled pedaller - probably the best way to make the combination of him and his car a lot faster point-to-point, would be spending the money on tuition.Ian_UK1 said:
I'm not sure this applies in these circumstances when the advice to the OP is overwhelmingly that remapping his car won't improve its performance in any meaningful or noticeable way. With a budget of £500 (what he said the Revo remap would cost) he's not going to get a faster car. So, unless he is already a professional driver - or otherwise a very skilled pedaller - probably the best way to make the combination of him and his car a lot faster point-to-point, would be spending the money on tuition.
imo faster A to B best mod would be some PSS tyres, if you want to take a non standard route to mapping and driving training :-)Ian_UK1 said:
I'm not sure this applies in these circumstances when the advice to the OP is overwhelmingly that remapping his car won't improve its performance in any meaningful or noticeable way. With a budget of £500 (what he said the Revo remap would cost) he's not going to get a faster car. So, unless he is already a professional driver - or otherwise a very skilled pedaller - probably the best way to make the combination of him and his car a lot faster point-to-point, would be spending the money on tuition.
Think you will agree value for money, the best modification on 997 is a BMC panel filter, coupled with a silicone hose. It makes little difference to BHP, but it does make throttle response more crisper and gives a nicer noise.I've now actually dremeled my stock air box completely removing the resonator and capping it off, so the air filter had more surface area. On a dyno with BMC filter in their, this actually gave a 3-4BHP gain, but on the road the car felt much better, mainly due to sound and throttle response.
So buy a second hand stock airbox and dremel it - £100
BMC panel filter - £60
Silicone hose / cap - £50-£150
The above is about the best value modification you can do, just before fitting the BMC panel filter, wrap it in news paper over night to remove any excess oil, as the oil on performance element filters will destroy a maf sensor.
The above cost little and it changes the cars personality in a good way, well worth it!
Next best modification is 200 cel cats, these will sometimes loose you a little torque sub 3500rpm, maybe 10lb/ft, but the gains beyond 3500rpm are very noticeable and normally to the tone of circa 10-20BHP/Lb/ft across the rev range.
Manifolds definitely work - X51 from Porsche are ideal and certainly help the car breath above 4000rpm, give good 5000-6000rpm gains and making the car more free revving to 7000+.
Then change the exhaust mufflers to get the desired tone you want, but they give little to no power.
GT3 throttlebody is the real unknown, but the fact Porsche used this on the newer cars, does lead to suggest it will help, but to fit a GT3 throttlebody to a 997.1 car you do need a plenum to make it fit and plenums are a huge topic with the end result typically being they give no additional power at all, they just move about how the power comes on in the rev range giving the impression they work.
thegoose said:
SCOM used to be a REVO dealer. I think they can install it FOC (or for minimal cost) for a trial period and if you like it you pay to keep it - it's got some kind of time-bomb so it only lasts 6 hours or so unless you cough up. That sounds like a company confident in their product and there's little risk in giving it a go.
Problem is that they don't put the factory map back onto the ecu after the trial has ended - they put a revo version of it...many have complained that vs. oem map the revo 'revert to standard' one is rubbish..In addition it has also been problematic to write the map over the top of the revo trial version - even if ended...
Sounded like i let a right load of imformative hornets out of the nest! lol
Thanks for all the advice. Im not going down this route, to be fair it was only after watching the vid i thought about it.
As for my driving skill, im no racing driver but part of my job in the military involved a few years of vehicle testing so know a bit about vehicle dynamics etc in fact ive probably done a fair few miles at Millbrook testing ground doing it. So i like to think im a "decent" driver.
Actually today i confirmed the warranty i have with Porsche for the replacement engine i have in my car is still running so im not doing anything with it anyway. And then i started looking at a 997 Turbo so thats probably one way of going faster!
Thanks for all the advice. Im not going down this route, to be fair it was only after watching the vid i thought about it.
As for my driving skill, im no racing driver but part of my job in the military involved a few years of vehicle testing so know a bit about vehicle dynamics etc in fact ive probably done a fair few miles at Millbrook testing ground doing it. So i like to think im a "decent" driver.
Actually today i confirmed the warranty i have with Porsche for the replacement engine i have in my car is still running so im not doing anything with it anyway. And then i started looking at a 997 Turbo so thats probably one way of going faster!
I've only had driver training on track rather than roadcraft training, and even then only a limited ammount, but its pretty clear that what you can learn in a half a day will allow you to get so much more out of your car. Gettign on the power earlier and learning quite how much you can feel in past the apex of even a tight corner amazed me.
Without tution I could have done 500 laps and never got anywhere near those kind of speeds. Perhaps you training has already taught you this, but for a couple of hundred quid or so I would certainly sort a day out - you can't fail to win really.
As for more power in a NA car - massive topic, where I've netted out it that very minor gains are achievable <£1k, but remaps etc can change the way the power come in in a good way, and sometimes that is as important
Whne it comes to 911 turbos and GT2s to me it it a totally different game, the way the power comes in, the noise and the way the car feels is completely different. Equally the <£2k tuning optinos can deliver big gains if that is what you want.
Whether that is better is very much up to you. I had a GT2 last year and really didn't enjoy it. By contrast I smiled all the way home from work in my GT3 yesterday, loving the revs and the noise, but always feeling in control of the power.
I don't want to put you off turbos, as lots of people love them, but I think to offten people just think of it as more power, when in reality it is quite a different proposition.
Without tution I could have done 500 laps and never got anywhere near those kind of speeds. Perhaps you training has already taught you this, but for a couple of hundred quid or so I would certainly sort a day out - you can't fail to win really.
As for more power in a NA car - massive topic, where I've netted out it that very minor gains are achievable <£1k, but remaps etc can change the way the power come in in a good way, and sometimes that is as important
Whne it comes to 911 turbos and GT2s to me it it a totally different game, the way the power comes in, the noise and the way the car feels is completely different. Equally the <£2k tuning optinos can deliver big gains if that is what you want.
Whether that is better is very much up to you. I had a GT2 last year and really didn't enjoy it. By contrast I smiled all the way home from work in my GT3 yesterday, loving the revs and the noise, but always feeling in control of the power.
I don't want to put you off turbos, as lots of people love them, but I think to offten people just think of it as more power, when in reality it is quite a different proposition.
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