CCB Brake noise following track day - warranty?
Discussion
Hi Guys,
I have a 2012 991 Carrera S with CCB brakes. The car has about 9k miles of 'proper' use on it - it's done a couple of track days, but other than that it has done a mixture of fast road use and just general driving.
Since the last track day I've had terrible brake noise - as soon as the brakes get warm (about 5 miles of my favourite twisty country road for example) a brake squeal is introduced which stays all the way until the car is left to cool down completely ie overnight. The squeal is bad enough the it is embarrassing to drive - people actually turn and stare as I pull up to junctions because it is so noisy.
I've taken the pads out to check them and the cause of the noise appears to be that the shims bonded and clipped to the backplate are damaged, presumably from the heat. Now, my question is, bearing in mind I've paid £6k for the privilege of 'race' brakes which are intended to be used on track, do you think I am within my rights to go back to the dealer and demand replacements under warranty, or will they just tell me to jog on? Obviously the brakes have been hot, but the car hasn't done anything 'abusive', just what brakes of this kind are intended to do.
If possible, keep this thread to personal experiences rather than speculation. It's not very easy to get the car to a dealership so 'just taking the car in and asking' isn't an option at the moment.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice
Andy
I have a 2012 991 Carrera S with CCB brakes. The car has about 9k miles of 'proper' use on it - it's done a couple of track days, but other than that it has done a mixture of fast road use and just general driving.
Since the last track day I've had terrible brake noise - as soon as the brakes get warm (about 5 miles of my favourite twisty country road for example) a brake squeal is introduced which stays all the way until the car is left to cool down completely ie overnight. The squeal is bad enough the it is embarrassing to drive - people actually turn and stare as I pull up to junctions because it is so noisy.
I've taken the pads out to check them and the cause of the noise appears to be that the shims bonded and clipped to the backplate are damaged, presumably from the heat. Now, my question is, bearing in mind I've paid £6k for the privilege of 'race' brakes which are intended to be used on track, do you think I am within my rights to go back to the dealer and demand replacements under warranty, or will they just tell me to jog on? Obviously the brakes have been hot, but the car hasn't done anything 'abusive', just what brakes of this kind are intended to do.
If possible, keep this thread to personal experiences rather than speculation. It's not very easy to get the car to a dealership so 'just taking the car in and asking' isn't an option at the moment.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice
Andy
IIRC track use doesn't invalidate the warranty, but it's a 'grey' area.
I think I would remove this post for the moment, and call the supplying OPC to explain that the brakes have developed this noise. They will need to see it but should give you a loan car. You can resurrect the post if you don't get a satisfactory outcome, but hopefully you will.
I think I would remove this post for the moment, and call the supplying OPC to explain that the brakes have developed this noise. They will need to see it but should give you a loan car. You can resurrect the post if you don't get a satisfactory outcome, but hopefully you will.
ajhmini said:
Hi Guys,
I have a 2012 991 Carrera S with CCB brakes. The car has about 9k miles of 'proper' use on it - it's done a couple of track days, but other than that it has done a mixture of fast road use and just general driving.
Since the last track day I've had terrible brake noise - as soon as the brakes get warm (about 5 miles of my favourite twisty country road for example) a brake squeal is introduced which stays all the way until the car is left to cool down completely ie overnight. The squeal is bad enough the it is embarrassing to drive - people actually turn and stare as I pull up to junctions because it is so noisy.
I've taken the pads out to check them and the cause of the noise appears to be that the shims bonded and clipped to the backplate are damaged, presumably from the heat. Now, my question is, bearing in mind I've paid £6k for the privilege of 'race' brakes which are intended to be used on track, do you think I am within my rights to go back to the dealer and demand replacements under warranty, or will they just tell me to jog on? Obviously the brakes have been hot, but the car hasn't done anything 'abusive', just what brakes of this kind are intended to do.
If possible, keep this thread to personal experiences rather than speculation. It's not very easy to get the car to a dealership so 'just taking the car in and asking' isn't an option at the moment.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice
Andy
Read the warranty booklet that came with your car.I have a 2012 991 Carrera S with CCB brakes. The car has about 9k miles of 'proper' use on it - it's done a couple of track days, but other than that it has done a mixture of fast road use and just general driving.
Since the last track day I've had terrible brake noise - as soon as the brakes get warm (about 5 miles of my favourite twisty country road for example) a brake squeal is introduced which stays all the way until the car is left to cool down completely ie overnight. The squeal is bad enough the it is embarrassing to drive - people actually turn and stare as I pull up to junctions because it is so noisy.
I've taken the pads out to check them and the cause of the noise appears to be that the shims bonded and clipped to the backplate are damaged, presumably from the heat. Now, my question is, bearing in mind I've paid £6k for the privilege of 'race' brakes which are intended to be used on track, do you think I am within my rights to go back to the dealer and demand replacements under warranty, or will they just tell me to jog on? Obviously the brakes have been hot, but the car hasn't done anything 'abusive', just what brakes of this kind are intended to do.
If possible, keep this thread to personal experiences rather than speculation. It's not very easy to get the car to a dealership so 'just taking the car in and asking' isn't an option at the moment.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice
Andy
IIRC track use voids the warranty.
On the track you heat damaged the brakes through abuse (lack of braking skill).
You expect the dealer to warranty the brakes?
Shame.
My advice would be to try to remove the shims from the back of the pads and replace these. This will quiet the brakes.
If this does not quiet the brakes you'll have to consider pads possibly rotors if they have been ruined.
To prevent this happening again, my advice would be to stay away from the track with your car.
I'd suggest saying as little as possible about how you've used the car (obviously if they ask for details you should tell them the truth) and just report the noise issue.
I wouldn't thnk that track use in itself is an issue for the warranty......but if you get the brakes hot and then don't allow them to cool down gradually i.e. a slow lap or two without using them, then it could be seen as abuse which has caused heat-soak and affected the pads' backing plates or whatever.
I wouldn't thnk that track use in itself is an issue for the warranty......but if you get the brakes hot and then don't allow them to cool down gradually i.e. a slow lap or two without using them, then it could be seen as abuse which has caused heat-soak and affected the pads' backing plates or whatever.
Rockster, care to elaborate on how you came to the conclusion that getting brakes hot on a track day means a lack of skill? You clearly drive so fast on track that you don't need to use the brakes? Perhaps you should give some coaching to any race team, ever, who naively put brakes on their car?...
Anyway, thankyou for the constructive comments so far, my understanding was also that 'timed events' voided the warranty, not track days.
The discs are in good condition. One chip out of the edge of a front disc which happened in the first 500 miles unfortunately. The disc wear indicators show ~20% worn which is what I would expect given the mileage and useage the car has had. No damage to the transfer layer on any of the discs. Rebedding the brakes or attempting to repair the shims is not an option - it needs new pads all round. As said in my OP, I'm just interested to know what experience, if any, people have of claiming on warranty for brake noise following track use.
Anyway, thankyou for the constructive comments so far, my understanding was also that 'timed events' voided the warranty, not track days.
The discs are in good condition. One chip out of the edge of a front disc which happened in the first 500 miles unfortunately. The disc wear indicators show ~20% worn which is what I would expect given the mileage and useage the car has had. No damage to the transfer layer on any of the discs. Rebedding the brakes or attempting to repair the shims is not an option - it needs new pads all round. As said in my OP, I'm just interested to know what experience, if any, people have of claiming on warranty for brake noise following track use.
ajhmini said:
Rockster, care to elaborate on how you came to the conclusion that getting brakes hot on a track day means a lack of skill? You clearly drive so fast on track that you don't need to use the brakes? Perhaps you should give some coaching to any race team, ever, who naively put brakes on their car?...
Anyway, thankyou for the constructive comments so far, my understanding was also that 'timed events' voided the warranty, not track days.
The discs are in good condition. One chip out of the edge of a front disc which happened in the first 500 miles unfortunately. The disc wear indicators show ~20% worn which is what I would expect given the mileage and useage the car has had. No damage to the transfer layer on any of the discs. Rebedding the brakes or attempting to repair the shims is not an option - it needs new pads all round. As said in my OP, I'm just interested to know what experience, if any, people have of claiming on warranty for brake noise following track use.
I think he is hinting that inexperienced drivers on tracks tend to brake longer, and possibly a bit lighter, and down to lower corner speeds than is necessary, altering the heating/cooling ratio and leading to higher heat for longer. Anyway, thankyou for the constructive comments so far, my understanding was also that 'timed events' voided the warranty, not track days.
The discs are in good condition. One chip out of the edge of a front disc which happened in the first 500 miles unfortunately. The disc wear indicators show ~20% worn which is what I would expect given the mileage and useage the car has had. No damage to the transfer layer on any of the discs. Rebedding the brakes or attempting to repair the shims is not an option - it needs new pads all round. As said in my OP, I'm just interested to know what experience, if any, people have of claiming on warranty for brake noise following track use.
Not cooling properly before stopping is an obvious way of causing this damage. Are you sure you were letting the brakes cool significantly before stopping?
Did you have PSM off? I know it's a no brainer but if you didn't and the 991 is like earlier models, the rear brakes can take a hammering, according to some.
That was cited as an issue with the very early pccbs (Gen 1), but the later variants have much better cooling, different construction, and other design developments that should mitigate driver error.
A 991 with pccbs should take a couple of track days in its stride. Going on track in a Porsche should be no different to going off road in a Land Rover. However, I wouldn't specifically mention the track use.
A 991 with pccbs should take a couple of track days in its stride. Going on track in a Porsche should be no different to going off road in a Land Rover. However, I wouldn't specifically mention the track use.
Buys new pads move on.
You state you have done 9k hard miles inc track days.
What's your issue here ? You have worn pads which are a consumable ,
Or you could ask for new tyres as well as you might have worn 2 mm of them also !!
Ps why call them CCB , I can see a mistake once but you call them CCB more than once.
You state you have done 9k hard miles inc track days.
What's your issue here ? You have worn pads which are a consumable ,
Or you could ask for new tyres as well as you might have worn 2 mm of them also !!
Ps why call them CCB , I can see a mistake once but you call them CCB more than once.
Edited by mrdemon on Friday 8th March 23:16
Geneve, your point comment about Land Rovers is exactly my point - wish I'd written something like that in the first post.
To take the analogy one step further, it's like buying a land rover, then spec-ing mud tyres on the option list and being told the occasional green-lane puts your warranty in jeopardy. Interesting that the majority of people here are happy to accept that the highest performance brakes that Porsche offer aren't robust to a track day or two.
And it's not necessary to call them by their 'full' name, as it's a Porsche forum... CCB is the technology, the rest is branding.
To take the analogy one step further, it's like buying a land rover, then spec-ing mud tyres on the option list and being told the occasional green-lane puts your warranty in jeopardy. Interesting that the majority of people here are happy to accept that the highest performance brakes that Porsche offer aren't robust to a track day or two.
And it's not necessary to call them by their 'full' name, as it's a Porsche forum... CCB is the technology, the rest is branding.
Hi matey,
My experience comes on a 7.2 GT3. Cars done 18k over 3 years, prob 9 track days. On my third set of pads. So aprox 3 per set. After each track day I get the squeal. Fact of life afraid. Never thought of taking the to a centre. Just thought that's what they did!!! New pads, noise goes away......until the next track day
Just think of it as a battle scar
My experience comes on a 7.2 GT3. Cars done 18k over 3 years, prob 9 track days. On my third set of pads. So aprox 3 per set. After each track day I get the squeal. Fact of life afraid. Never thought of taking the to a centre. Just thought that's what they did!!! New pads, noise goes away......until the next track day
Just think of it as a battle scar
ajhmini said:
Geneve, your point comment about Land Rovers is exactly my point - wish I'd written something like that in the first post.
To take the analogy one step further, it's like buying a land rover, then spec-ing mud tyres on the option list and being told the occasional green-lane puts your warranty in jeopardy. Interesting that the majority of people here are happy to accept that the highest performance brakes that Porsche offer aren't robust to a track day or two.
And it's not necessary to call them by their 'full' name, as it's a Porsche forum... CCB is the technology, the rest is branding.
Hey mate, don't sweat too much you probably just need a new set of pads. Get it down to the OPC and have them checked out. RS was being blunt but if you have done them in on one track day it is probably down to how you used them but nobody knows for sure, it could just be the electronics or, you are a very fast driver To take the analogy one step further, it's like buying a land rover, then spec-ing mud tyres on the option list and being told the occasional green-lane puts your warranty in jeopardy. Interesting that the majority of people here are happy to accept that the highest performance brakes that Porsche offer aren't robust to a track day or two.
And it's not necessary to call them by their 'full' name, as it's a Porsche forum... CCB is the technology, the rest is branding.
It is unlikely that the discs are shot.
If it is the rear pads which are shot and not the fronts it probably indicates that the PTV system has been 'helping you out' around the bends.
Please post back when the problem has been diagnosed.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Saturday 9th March 10:13
I had a very similar issue and no goodwill from Porsche.
I'm guessing the pads are probably a bit glazed, if not too bad you can de-glaze them carefully with some emery paper and put them back in. If that doesn't work you can try getting them done on a machine shop surface grinder which should bring them back to near new condition, assuming there's plenty material left ??
Failing all that new pads are probably the only real fix.
I'm guessing the pads are probably a bit glazed, if not too bad you can de-glaze them carefully with some emery paper and put them back in. If that doesn't work you can try getting them done on a machine shop surface grinder which should bring them back to near new condition, assuming there's plenty material left ??
Failing all that new pads are probably the only real fix.
Sandy59 said:
I had a very similar issue and no goodwill from Porsche.
I'm guessing the pads are probably a bit glazed, if not too bad you can de-glaze them carefully with some emery paper and put them back in. If that doesn't work you can try getting them done on a machine shop surface grinder which should bring them back to near new condition, assuming there's plenty material left ??
Failing all that new pads are probably the only real fix.
This is the best advice I've read on this thread.I'm guessing the pads are probably a bit glazed, if not too bad you can de-glaze them carefully with some emery paper and put them back in. If that doesn't work you can try getting them done on a machine shop surface grinder which should bring them back to near new condition, assuming there's plenty material left ??
Failing all that new pads are probably the only real fix.
Deglaze the pads and put some Ceratec paste on the shims
http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/190656550439?var=lv...
I had such bad squealing from the PF pads in my track Evo that is was embarrasing to drive on the road. The above measures cured it no problem.
ajhmini said:
Hi Guys,
I have a 2012 991 Carrera S
Andy
I know this question may look odd but did you also hit the rev limiter during your track session ?I have a 2012 991 Carrera S
Andy
Strange question perhaps but you should be aware that the new cars 991/981 etc now log GPS position during over-rev instances and any errors.
This data is downloadable and can be used to support or dispute any subsequent warranty claim.
So big brother Porsche can now find out where you have been and how you have been driving your car.
NickUSA said:
....you should be aware that the new cars 991/981 etc now log GPS position during over-rev instances and any errors...
Shouldn't this logging information be told to the owner when they purchase the car, or at least detailed in the manual? Isn't this some kind of breach of your security rights?
NickUSA said:
I know this question may look odd but did you also hit the rev limiter during your track session ?
Strange question perhaps but you should be aware that the new cars 991/981 etc now log GPS position during over-rev instances and any errors.
This data is downloadable and can be used to support or dispute any subsequent warranty claim.
So big brother Porsche can now find out where you have been and how you have been driving your car.
This is interesting. So for those wanting to hide their track use it's now a question not just of covering up number plates, but covering up (or disconnecting) the GPS antenna too?Strange question perhaps but you should be aware that the new cars 991/981 etc now log GPS position during over-rev instances and any errors.
This data is downloadable and can be used to support or dispute any subsequent warranty claim.
So big brother Porsche can now find out where you have been and how you have been driving your car.
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