987 PDK remap

[Ramanator]

Hi all.. I am a new boy on the Porsche block with a Boxter S 987 2010 PDK.. Love it. I had it professionally remapped. 309 bhp to 345.5 bhp. I have noticed the rev count is now a bit higher when cruising at 70 mph in 7th gear. I was told this is normal. Can anyone out there confirm that.

I have had a car remapped before but it was a manual golf GT TDi. It was half the price to do and I had control as it was a manual., so not sure if the higher rev count is normal on a PDK..

Is it also correct that the power is not instant.. It's more noticeable through the gear changes at at higher rpm.

Soon I will be working on the cat's to gain more power. Then will put 5mm spacers and lower springs to help the handling of the new power.

Can anyone tell me if I should be thinking of changing the braking with the power increase.

All other advice is welcome.

[dom9]

Ramanator said:

Hi all.. I am a new boy on the Porsche block with a Boxter S 987 2010 PDK.. Love it. I had it professionally remapped. 309 bhp to 345.5 bhp. I have noticed the rev count is now a bit higher when cruising at 70 mph in 7th gear. I was told this is normal. Can anyone out there confirm that.

I have had a car remapped before but it was a manual golf GT TDi. It was half the price to do and I had control as it was a manual., so not sure if the higher rev count is normal on a PDK..

Is it also correct that the power is not instant.. It's more noticeable through the gear changes at at higher rpm.

Soon I will be working on the cat's to gain more power. Then will put 5mm spacers and lower springs to help the handling of the new power.

Can anyone tell me if I should be thinking of changing the braking with the power increase.

All other advice is welcome.

I would post this in the Porsche forum as you will get a lot more answers there.

Firstly, that sounds like a lot more power for just a remap. Impossibly so, IMHO, unless you already have the modifications to the exhaust (decat etc) and the induction/ plenum. There are a lot of threads about this engine in the Porsche section and people have seen that power but not on just a remap. Do you have the graph and could you post it up?

There is a chance that you would get more at the top end but these engines also seem to be more driveable and generally show peak gains at medium revs, so this again sounds 'different'. Who did the remap and do they have experience of these cars?

No matter how you tune the engine, unless you are changing gearing or the rolling circumference of your tyre package, there is no way that your rev counter should read a different rpm for any given road speed. The crank turns through a certain number of rpm, which gets transferred to the road via a fixed ratio gearbox and then your wheels. Unless you change something such as gearing or fit different profile tyres, no matter how 'tuned' your engine is, 5th gear will do a certain speed at a certain rpm (as an example) whether you have 10bhp or 1,000bhp.

Lowering the car (using the right parts such as the Porsche M030 springs) and fitting spacers can really help with the handling but your brakes should be fine. If you are finding you have some fade, then look at your fluid and maybe a chnage of pad compound but I suspect you will be fine as the brakes are great as standard. The engine tuning though, to be honest, all sounds a bit dodgy.

Be careful of the name and shame rules but something isn't right with your power figures or what you have tried to explain about speed/ rpm, IMHO.

[Ramanator]

Hi.. Thanks for the reply. I have also posted on the Porsche club forum. I had it remapped at a place that was recommended and the specialise is Porsche and BMW's.

They received unqualified praise for their power and driveability from the world’s most-respected car magazines, including Autocar, Car, Top Gear and Evo.

They had a write up on a Porsche Turbo they had up at 800 bhp..

They used a rolling road and it took a good couple of hours to do. They ran it up to 120 mph at 345.5 bhp. They were surprised as they expected 330 bhp maybe 336 bhp. I was in a rush to get away so they will email the graph. I will email them tomorrow for it and wiz it over to you.

Am I allowed to say who they are on this forum?

[dom9]

Ramanator said:

Hi.. Thanks for the reply. I have also posted on the Porsche club forum. I had it remapped at a place that was recommended and the specialise is Porsche and BMW's.

They received unqualified praise for their power and driveability from the world’s most-respected car magazines, including Autocar, Car, Top Gear and Evo.

They had a write up on a Porsche Turbo they had up at 800 bhp..

They used a rolling road and it took a good couple of hours to do. They ran it up to 120 mph at 345.5 bhp. They were surprised as they expected 330 bhp maybe 336 bhp. I was in a rush to get away so they will email the graph. I will email them tomorrow for it and wiz it over to you.

Am I allowed to say who they are on this forum?

I'd have thought you could say who as you aren't shaming them at all, I am just asking questions, at this point.

If you have the before and after curves plotted, with the correction factors etc, that would be a great help.

That power would be a massive surprise to me, put it that way and I have been fairly active in Porsche tuning circles for a few years now.

I'd be careful of somewhere that wasn't recommended by a Porsche Specialist or someone with experience on the forums.

It's relatively easy to make a lot more power with a forced induction engine and, obviously, Audis, BMWs etc are very different to Porsches.

If someone was a 911 Turbo specialist, that certainly wouldn't guarantee they would be any good with the NA engine.

With no mechanical changes to induction or exhaust, it is generally considered that a few bhp at peak would be a GREAT result with more mid-range/ driveability from a remap. In effect, most people say not to bother unless you make the other changes. If you look up Softronic, they seem to have some good results on the 986 engine and maybe they have moved onto the 987 since I last looked.

The generic remap sellers are not really recommended for NA Porsches, so unless it was someone like Bob Watson or Wayne Schofield, or some of the guys in the US (Softronic etc) and it was live mapped, then you may not get much feedback.

However, I don't want to bring your mood down If the engine is 'safe' and you are happy with how it feels and what you paid, then all power (excuse the pun) to you and enjoy it in good health

[Ramanator]

I will get the graph up ASAP as would love to get your thoughts. It was DMS in southampton. Work shop was clean. Equipment looked great and the office was clean and tidy and their enthusiasm was overwhelming. I haven't pushed her yet so haven't felt the full difference.. I'm not a hard aggressive driver.. Knowing the power is there is what makes me smile. I will give her a blast soon and let you know. I had it done last week and after it was done I haven't driven her since bringing her home.

[dom9]

Ramanator said:

I will get the graph up ASAP as would love to get your thoughts. It was DMS in southampton. Work shop was clean. Equipment looked great and the office was clean and tidy and their enthusiasm was overwhelming. I haven't pushed her yet so haven't felt the full difference.. I'm not a hard aggressive driver.. Knowing the power is there is what makes me smile. I will give her a blast soon and let you know. I had it done last week and after it was done I haven't driven her since bringing her home.

Get the grpahs up and let us have some feedback, once you've given her the beans

My understanding is that the primary cats are in the manifold on the 987.1 and the primary and secondary cats in the manifold on the 987.2 - If you want any significant power gains, you need to delete one set on the 987.1 and change the manifolds on the 987.2. Without doing this, I am not sure anyone has seen the gains that DMS have told you you have.

As for DMS - They do have a pretty good reputation as far as plug-and-play chip tuning goes for most of the rep-mobile companies but as far as Porsches go, I am not sure I have ever seen anyone use them and write-up the experience for an NA Porsche and if you go to the PH Porsche forum, I am 99.99% sure than you wouldn't have been recommended to use them as the gains would be minimal for the money and a 'proper' day or so on the rolling road with someone like Wayne Schofield gets you a map fully optimised for your own car, for similar money.

Again though, please don't see this as all negative as, if it is true, that would be a great result and as long as the map is 'safe' i.e. neither too lean nor too rich then you shouldn't have any problems, as long as you don't have the Porsche manufacturer warranty (it would now be void).

[Ramanator]

Hi Dom9, as soon as I have the graph I will put it up. I stuck around towards the end of the remap and watched as they took the car up to 120 mph. when it stopped I looked at the graph on the rolling road computer and it showed 345.5 bhp. I am a little gutted as I wish I shopped around for advice first. They were recommended so went with it. Rod (owner) was a chilled guy. Didn't want me to just spend. Gave some good advice and told me that I didn't need to spend to much. Take it a bit at a time and don't go mad. So it felt wright. Before he done the remap it was reading 309 bhp. On the way there I was doing 80 mph in 7th gear at 2000 rpm and now 80mph in 7th gear is 2200 rpm ish.

Is there a way to tell if its ok. Is there any tail tail signs I should be looking out for? She runs smoothly and gear change are smooth. No funny smells. Sounds nicer.. just the "now uncertainty" if I done the right thing with the right company.

[mackie1]

The gearing thing is odd. Could the remap have thrown out the tachometer calibration somehow?

[Ramanator]

No idea. I can ask. Does anyone have a Boxter s with PDK that can confirm the rpm at 80mph.

[FisiP1]

No idea how that happened with regards the revs and such. Get it looked at or some ideas at least for sure though.

As for the power gain, look forward to seeing the graphs but that big a gain on that car without having done anything other than a remap, I'm extremely skeptical to say the least. Turbo cars are another ball game entirely when it comes to remapping.

[FisiP1]

Ramanator said:

Is it also correct that the power is not instant.. It's more noticeable through the gear changes at at higher rpm.

Wondering what you mean by this too? Porsche max power outputs are always usually somewhere around the top third to quarter of the rev range, or am I reading this incorrectly?

[dom9]

Ramanator said:

On the way there I was doing 80 mph in 7th gear at 2000 rpm and now 80mph in 7th gear is 2200 rpm ish

If you are sure it was 2,000rpm before and now it is 2,200rpm and you are in the same gear, something is wrong.

I am not sure how the rolling road/ remap could have thrown the calibration out but it certainly looks that way.

If the car is running 'fine' and you don't have a load of flat tyres (check 'em) then I wouldn't be too concerned.

A quick Google should reveal what speed you should be doing at certain rpm in 7th in a PDK equipped 987. Failing that, I'd maybe run down to your local OPC.

Looking forward to the graphs.

Also, do you have a Porsche Warranty on the car?

[Raitzi]

dom9 said:

Also, do you have a Porsche Warranty on the car?

No, It has been tuned

[mrdemon]

345bhp from a remap

not a chance with the 4 cats still in place and the stock exhaust.

[Ramanator]

Hi All. I think I may have made a mistake with the rpm. A friend took delivery of his Boxter S gen 3 a few days ago and today he confirmed 80 mph at 2200 rpm and mine is the same so I'm happy. I'm ok on the rpm's.. Also now I have been out properly I can feel the power and it feels much smoother through each gear. Power is instant and if I floor it at lower rpm OMG she flys. In fact, if I floor it at any speed she flys.

I will put the graph up ASAP. But just to be clear. While I was there I was shown bhp before and it was showing 309. A while later I watched my car go to 120mph on a rolling road and peeked at 345.5 bhp. Thank good she was also strapped at the rear to hold her. I thought she was going to take off. The noisiest thing was the big fan..

Is 345.5 bhp on a remap really so impossible? Or is it just not heard of?

[Raitzi]

Ramanator said:

Is 345.5 bhp on a remap really so impossible? Or is it just not heard of?

Yes. But of course there can be differences in temperatures between the runs that widen the gap. With exhaust update that is within the common gains. Also remap usually does much more than just increases HP. It can improve response, make PDK faster, increase rev limit and make better use of high octane fuels to name a few possibilities. Nice to hear that you are pleased with the performance.

[dom9]

Ramanator said:

Is 345.5 bhp on a remap really so impossible? Or is it just not heard of?

Even if you have a graph that shows you having 345bhp I am afraid to say that it really doesn't mean you do.

Although we can't prove it, from the 100s of cars that have been played with round the world, yes, I would say 345bhp is impossible with the standard engine on the standard exhaust system.

This is where companies like DMS excel. They advertise big numbers in the popular mags, people go to them and come home happy with a new graph. If you do a lot of research you can see what parts work and which don't and work out who should be tuning your car.

I wouldn't ever go to DMS but that is not to say I have ever heard anything specifically bad, they just aren't a true Porsche NA Flat-6 specialist, yet you are pretty much paying those prices.

I feel a bit bad that we are all a bit negative on this. As with everything in life - if you are happy and your engine is 'safe' then that is all that matters, at the end of the day. I just hope you didn't pay for a Porsche warranty as that will be void now, hence why most people say not to bother with remaps (as they don't give a great gain on a standard engine and void your warranty).

Glad that you have the rpm thing sorted. It did sound a little 'random' and unlikely

[mrdemon]

just about impossable

the Cayman R has 330BHP with a 55MM exhaust system and Porsche remap tweeks (stock exhaust is 48mm)

A full decatted system with throttle body and remapped with all the trick bits is about 345/350BHp

also the runs have to be done in the same gear and the gen 2 cars don't like dyno's due to the front wheels not turning either.

gains froma remap are normally 15 BHP on a 310BHP car the rest is down to a full bigger bore exhaust system with only 2 sports cats in.
that will add 20 BHP to the remapped (now 325BHp car) to give the 345BHP people are getting.

Cargraphic a leading tuning house state 18BHP over a stock car with remap and hi flow filter.

on a Spyder which has 320BHP as standard (still 48mm exhaust unlike the Cayman R 55mm one) people get 10-13 hp from just a remap with the main players again that would be 330BHP
and then 20BHP max from a full larger bore exhaust and manafold with 2 x 200 cell sports cats to give circa 350BHP.

Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 6th March 20:42

[Ramanator]

This is a tough topic. So many variables and advice.. Maybe I should have the bhp checked out by some one else to find what the true reading is?

[Fire_2]

mrdemon is spot on

Ramanator get down to surryrollingroad for a cheap £40 weekend run and see what it makes then

Edited by Fire_2 on Wednesday 6th March 20:50