Discussion
quote:
Audi sold the RS4 on the back of the 50-70mph time as that was what it was designed for. IIRC its less than a second.
Matt.
Is that really at least 1.5g or have I screwed up the maths a bit?
edit: I've just done it again and now I think it's more like 8.99ms^-2 or better. Still what the journos would call "neck-snapping" I think!
>> Edited by whatever on Tuesday 25th June 14:59
In fact the stupid obsession with 0-60 has been quite harmful as it has led to manufacturers choosing gear ratios that delay a change to after 60. A proper choice based upon an analysis of engine and vehicle dynamics would give a progressive and overall more efficient spread of ratios.
How many road tests mention ' a hole in the gear ratios'. Bill Blydenstein developed a clever if complex formula for calculating real performance. Most of his modified cars did not particularly excell in magazine road tests but were very impressive in everyday use. My old (1976) Blydenstein modified Magnum was a very fast and satisfying motor car that loved to play with the contempory Porsches. The equivalent fast Fords were in a different, lesser, league but made good magazine fodder.
How many road tests mention ' a hole in the gear ratios'. Bill Blydenstein developed a clever if complex formula for calculating real performance. Most of his modified cars did not particularly excell in magazine road tests but were very impressive in everyday use. My old (1976) Blydenstein modified Magnum was a very fast and satisfying motor car that loved to play with the contempory Porsches. The equivalent fast Fords were in a different, lesser, league but made good magazine fodder.
I quite like the way they record times in some magazines on the continent: 30-75 mph, and 50-75 mph, which gives you that extra bit of information about its performance to highish speeds.
I also find information about in gear times (i.e. 50-70), because that is also a good indicator as to how the car will drive in the real world. I bought a car with tall gearing that gives a good 0-60 time, but is certainly nothing particularly special other than that, and is downright sluggish in the higher gears. If I had known then what I know now, I probably wouldnt of got it. Just as well I can hit over 90 in third I suppose.
I also find information about in gear times (i.e. 50-70), because that is also a good indicator as to how the car will drive in the real world. I bought a car with tall gearing that gives a good 0-60 time, but is certainly nothing particularly special other than that, and is downright sluggish in the higher gears. If I had known then what I know now, I probably wouldnt of got it. Just as well I can hit over 90 in third I suppose.
I have to say I stopped looking at 0-60 times a long time ago. The only thing I take notice of now is the 0-100 mph. This tells you SOOO much more about the car.
For intance:
Lotus Elise 111S 0-60: 5.1 sec
Porsche 993TT 0-60: 4.5 sec
not a massive difference in the real world.
then
Lotus Elise 111S 0-100: 15.2 sec
Porsche 993TT 0-100: 9.2 sec
now which one would you want??!
For intance:
Lotus Elise 111S 0-60: 5.1 sec
Porsche 993TT 0-60: 4.5 sec
not a massive difference in the real world.
then
Lotus Elise 111S 0-100: 15.2 sec
Porsche 993TT 0-100: 9.2 sec
now which one would you want??!
0-60 is an accepted benchmark which people have got used to and understand, in gear times are far more relevant but they are misleading. For example my Chimaera (according to Autocar) did 50-70 in 6.8 secs. The car I've replaced it with - a tank of an E320 CDi - does 50-70 in 4.0 secs.
So the Merc is quicker than the TVR?
In gear acceleration in the Merc IS phenomenal (it has 350 lbs torque) but it is misleading 'cos all E320 CDI's are auto's and they kick down during the test. So in reality as long as you didn't get caught in gear the TVR is still faster.
The only REAL measure of a cars performance is a lap time. Then you measure not only acceleration right through the range, but also handling, grip, braking, etc etc.
So the Merc is quicker than the TVR?
In gear acceleration in the Merc IS phenomenal (it has 350 lbs torque) but it is misleading 'cos all E320 CDI's are auto's and they kick down during the test. So in reality as long as you didn't get caught in gear the TVR is still faster.
The only REAL measure of a cars performance is a lap time. Then you measure not only acceleration right through the range, but also handling, grip, braking, etc etc.
quote:
Well, the key phrase there is "real world" and whilst I can see myself skitting up to 60 at every available opportunity, going up to 100 in the same circumstances would land me either in a field, a hospital, a prison or a coffin.
The 50-100 is overtaking on country lane acceleration, which IMHO is far more important than the 0-60. My mini has this as an example. In town fast nippy between cars accelerates to 60 fine. On country roads however I can get stuck behind numpty that slows right down for corners then accelerates out (ie never uses mirrors or just plain pig ignorant) 'cos the car doen't have the oomph to zip past. (thats when I miss the Lotus)
Performance Car used to quote a number called TED, time exposed to danger, based on overtaking a truck that was going at 40mph (I think). Much better as a single benchmark than 0-60 times. If you really want to know what performance is going to be like, you have to look at in-gear times across the rev range and in each gear. No single number will paint the whole picture. Anyway, if anyone has got this figured out maybe they can help me out with picking a mortgage...
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