390 SE Kevlar racers
Discussion
G'day Wedgers!
This has so far been discussed on the '350 chassis needed thread', but I thought it might merit a thread of its own.
Alan (rev-erend) kindly alerted me to the existence of the 390 SE Kevlar racers from 1985, wondering whether my car might be related to them - or perhaps be one of them!
He sent me a feature from November 1985 Fast Lane where one of the racers and the standard road 390 SE were tested. It was said in that article that the racer was due to be put into production as the 390 SEL (L = light) or more likely the 420 SEL.
My thoughts are that the nomenclature 'SEL' was not used and the name restyled to SE AC to indicate the use of composites, and lightness. The narrative of the article suggests that the intention may have been to put the cars into production with the existing body styling. But of course we know that the SE AC was restyled with the bodywork that we all so much admire.
The questions that we can ask are; Were one or two SE AC cars made with the existing 390/420 SE bodywork? Did they try it out this way before producing the rounded SE AC? Could the racers have been prepared and released for sale as road cars and relabelled SE AC? Were the racers scrapped?
If my car was one of the racers, later prepared for road use and sold as a road car, then this would explain why the factory information states that it is a 420 SEAC. Similarly so if it was derived from the racers and was one of only one or two 390 style bodied SEACs.
I have put out feelers for more information on the racers (not via the factory or TVRCC) and am waiting for results.
If anyone has any information on these two cars (one red, other colour?) as driven by Rod Gretton and John Kent in the Ronnie Scott's Club and 750 Motor Club Sportscar Championships of 1985 - this would be most useful.
Perhaps there are some collectors out there who have old race programmes or other race information?
I am hoping you all have lots of information!
Thanks
JJ
This has so far been discussed on the '350 chassis needed thread', but I thought it might merit a thread of its own.
Alan (rev-erend) kindly alerted me to the existence of the 390 SE Kevlar racers from 1985, wondering whether my car might be related to them - or perhaps be one of them!
He sent me a feature from November 1985 Fast Lane where one of the racers and the standard road 390 SE were tested. It was said in that article that the racer was due to be put into production as the 390 SEL (L = light) or more likely the 420 SEL.
My thoughts are that the nomenclature 'SEL' was not used and the name restyled to SE AC to indicate the use of composites, and lightness. The narrative of the article suggests that the intention may have been to put the cars into production with the existing body styling. But of course we know that the SE AC was restyled with the bodywork that we all so much admire.
The questions that we can ask are; Were one or two SE AC cars made with the existing 390/420 SE bodywork? Did they try it out this way before producing the rounded SE AC? Could the racers have been prepared and released for sale as road cars and relabelled SE AC? Were the racers scrapped?
If my car was one of the racers, later prepared for road use and sold as a road car, then this would explain why the factory information states that it is a 420 SEAC. Similarly so if it was derived from the racers and was one of only one or two 390 style bodied SEACs.
I have put out feelers for more information on the racers (not via the factory or TVRCC) and am waiting for results.
If anyone has any information on these two cars (one red, other colour?) as driven by Rod Gretton and John Kent in the Ronnie Scott's Club and 750 Motor Club Sportscar Championships of 1985 - this would be most useful.
Perhaps there are some collectors out there who have old race programmes or other race information?
I am hoping you all have lots of information!
Thanks
JJ
JJ
In the mid-80's there was a dark green 390SE raced by BLE Automotive at about the same time (or just before) the yellow SEAC racer. There are some photograhs of it in the TVRCC archives (or at least there were when I was archivist). These were out-take photographs taken by the Fast Lane photograher.
Terminator (aka Colin Lyons) was the very active in the Club at this time and had a close relationship with the factory, so he may well be sending an email.
As usual a lot of mystery surrounds 'special' TVRs, but I've not heard of any kevlar 390's before, but that doesn't mean that they wern't (aren't) any!!
I don't know the deatils of your exact car (and am not a regular reader of the wedge forum), but could you just have a rebodied 420SEAC or just a 420SE? The weight saving with the Kevlar is marginal anyway (the weight of a passenger?) and many cars were actually fibreglass due the paint issues with the kevlar.
davidy
In the mid-80's there was a dark green 390SE raced by BLE Automotive at about the same time (or just before) the yellow SEAC racer. There are some photograhs of it in the TVRCC archives (or at least there were when I was archivist). These were out-take photographs taken by the Fast Lane photograher.
Terminator (aka Colin Lyons) was the very active in the Club at this time and had a close relationship with the factory, so he may well be sending an email.
As usual a lot of mystery surrounds 'special' TVRs, but I've not heard of any kevlar 390's before, but that doesn't mean that they wern't (aren't) any!!
I don't know the deatils of your exact car (and am not a regular reader of the wedge forum), but could you just have a rebodied 420SEAC or just a 420SE? The weight saving with the Kevlar is marginal anyway (the weight of a passenger?) and many cars were actually fibreglass due the paint issues with the kevlar.
davidy
Davidy -
My car has the appearance of a 390/420 SE - I suppose 420 because the side skirts are slightly different.
I was also told at the BBWF that the back end was a bit different too - can the person who said it get in touch? Aparently deeper boot/rear end and lower underwing or something like that? I just accepted it at the time as being somthing else different about my car to add to all the rest!
The factory sent it out as (according to their records) a 420 SEAC, and it was sold as a new car by TVR Centre at Barnet. TVRCC archives list it as 420 SEAC.
Interestingly, there are letters on file from both TVR and TVR Centre professing no knowledge of the car.
I have been told by a previous owner that it was used by the factory and specially modified by the factory. So, having been alerted by rev-erend (Alan) of the existence of the 390 SE Kevlar racers (as described in the November 1985 Fast Lane article he sent me), and with his suggestion that my car might possibly be one of these or connected in some way, I thought I would look into it and ask for information.
Hopefully your contact will get in touch. If you have any other views I would be pleased to hear them.
cheers!
JJ
My car has the appearance of a 390/420 SE - I suppose 420 because the side skirts are slightly different.
I was also told at the BBWF that the back end was a bit different too - can the person who said it get in touch? Aparently deeper boot/rear end and lower underwing or something like that? I just accepted it at the time as being somthing else different about my car to add to all the rest!
The factory sent it out as (according to their records) a 420 SEAC, and it was sold as a new car by TVR Centre at Barnet. TVRCC archives list it as 420 SEAC.
Interestingly, there are letters on file from both TVR and TVR Centre professing no knowledge of the car.
I have been told by a previous owner that it was used by the factory and specially modified by the factory. So, having been alerted by rev-erend (Alan) of the existence of the 390 SE Kevlar racers (as described in the November 1985 Fast Lane article he sent me), and with his suggestion that my car might possibly be one of these or connected in some way, I thought I would look into it and ask for information.
Hopefully your contact will get in touch. If you have any other views I would be pleased to hear them.
cheers!
JJ
Well, John Kent is my dad and did indeed prepare and race the factory backed 350 and 390 in what I think was called 'ProdSports'. I'm going round there today, so will ask him...!
Roop
Roop
firefox1712 said:
G'day Wedgers!
If anyone has any information on these two cars (one red, other colour?) as driven by Rod Gretton and John Kent in the Ronnie Scott's Club and 750 Motor Club Sportscar Championships of 1985 - this would be most useful.
firefox1712 said:
I was also told at the BBWF that the back end was a bit different too - can the person who said it get in touch? Aparently deeper boot/rear end and lower underwing or something like that?
cheers!
JJ
that was me firefox, as i said at the time the back of your car is different from others i have seen and mine.
Right. Had a chat to my dad and he raced both the 350 and 390 factory cars. As far as he knows there were only two of them. Both cars were fibreglass bodies and not composite, although he did mention that it's feasible that some panels may have been replaced with experimental composite ones (eg : doors, roof, bonnet, boot) although unlikely. They were just very thin (compared to roadcars) fibreglass shells.
Dad's silver and blue 350 (originally a 280i Tasmin) was uprated to a 390 with an engine built by John Eales. The dark red car run by Rod Gretton had an Andy Rouse built 390. Dad was upset at the fact that he did all the development and testing but Rod got the fancy engine. It all turned out well though because the John Eales built 3.9 categorically outperformed the Rouse engine absolutely everywhere and cost a lot less.
Dad's 390 was sold, as was his 3000M Turbo, but the interesting thing is this...
Dad got hold of and Raced Rod's 390 after Rod gave up, perhaps he swapped in the Eales motor, I don't know but I have photos of him in the car. The car went back to the factory where it was rebodied and re-engined with the fuel injected 4.2 and became the yellow works 420SEAC raced by Steve Cole and now owned by Jeff Statham (sp?).
Dad also said that he wasn't sure the racing SEAC was ever composite either. Certainly wasn't at the end because Coley smashed it up so many times they didn't want to fix it in composite, so it was just thin fibreglass.
So there you go. No composite works racers.
Roop (font of a very slight bit of knowledge)
Dad's silver and blue 350 (originally a 280i Tasmin) was uprated to a 390 with an engine built by John Eales. The dark red car run by Rod Gretton had an Andy Rouse built 390. Dad was upset at the fact that he did all the development and testing but Rod got the fancy engine. It all turned out well though because the John Eales built 3.9 categorically outperformed the Rouse engine absolutely everywhere and cost a lot less.
Dad's 390 was sold, as was his 3000M Turbo, but the interesting thing is this...
Dad got hold of and Raced Rod's 390 after Rod gave up, perhaps he swapped in the Eales motor, I don't know but I have photos of him in the car. The car went back to the factory where it was rebodied and re-engined with the fuel injected 4.2 and became the yellow works 420SEAC raced by Steve Cole and now owned by Jeff Statham (sp?).
Dad also said that he wasn't sure the racing SEAC was ever composite either. Certainly wasn't at the end because Coley smashed it up so many times they didn't want to fix it in composite, so it was just thin fibreglass.
So there you go. No composite works racers.
Roop (font of a very slight bit of knowledge)
Been reading "The Rover V8 Engine" by David Hardcastle. He says - "Through 1985 the factory supported two 390SE's in production sports car racing, partly to enhance the comany's growing reputation for producing a new breed of high performance sports cars and partly to assist in overall product development. This programme culminated in the 420SEAC race car.
JJ Does yours have the NCK 4.2 engine?
JJ Does yours have the NCK 4.2 engine?
Yep. One was my dad's and one Rod Grettons. The NCK engine was surely the one that ended up in the 420 SEAC racer of Steve Cole...? Both the 390's were indeed 3.9's and not 4.2's one built by Andy Rouse and one by John Eales.
dickymint said:
Been reading "The Rover V8 Engine" by David Hardcastle. He says - "Through 1985 the factory supported two 390SE's in production sports car racing, partly to enhance the comany's growing reputation for producing a new breed of high performance sports cars and partly to assist in overall product development. This programme culminated in the 420SEAC race car.
JJ Does yours have the NCK 4.2 engine?
Dicky -
Engine number of my car is NCK010. It is 4.2 litres, with written confirmation from the factory that it is a 4.2 car and not a 3.5 as shown on the (old) V5.
I have spoken by email to the chap who built the engine, and he was going to come back to me with more info. Not heard any more yet.
JJ
>> Edited by firefox1712 on Wednesday 22 September 07:44
Engine number of my car is NCK010. It is 4.2 litres, with written confirmation from the factory that it is a 4.2 car and not a 3.5 as shown on the (old) V5.
I have spoken by email to the chap who built the engine, and he was going to come back to me with more info. Not heard any more yet.
JJ
>> Edited by firefox1712 on Wednesday 22 September 07:44
firefox1712 said:
Engine number of my car is NCK010. It is 4.2 litres, with written confirmation from the factory that it is a 4.2 car and not a 3.5 as shown on the (old) V5.
Nice one. Lots of them say 3.5 or 3498 (even though 3528 is the standard cc) on the V5, it's a type approval thing. Glad that you have such positive confirmation that it is a special engine but you must have known that after BBWF by judging how hard it was to keep up with/lose people.
roop -
Many thanks for the information - quite fascinating. Thanks to your father too. Maybe we can get him along to BBWF 2005? I am sure we would all like to hear his stories - Jeff Statham was there with the yellow SEAC racer in July for the first BBWF.
I have always been open to the possibility that the car was rebodied at some time - following a crash or because the composite body was of such poor quality it was changed. Comments on this forum have suggested that that has happened with one or more AC bodied cars.
There was a comment (pistolar?) some time ago that a black (my car was originally metallic black) SEAC body was seen at TVR Centre (where my car came from) in late 1986 (this coincides), and this subscriber bought it or bought half of it whatever! Was that you pistolar? Whoever it was, can you please tell your story again.
BlaineUK said that the back end of mine was quite different to a lot of cars - can you remember the details Blaine?
JJ
Many thanks for the information - quite fascinating. Thanks to your father too. Maybe we can get him along to BBWF 2005? I am sure we would all like to hear his stories - Jeff Statham was there with the yellow SEAC racer in July for the first BBWF.
I have always been open to the possibility that the car was rebodied at some time - following a crash or because the composite body was of such poor quality it was changed. Comments on this forum have suggested that that has happened with one or more AC bodied cars.
There was a comment (pistolar?) some time ago that a black (my car was originally metallic black) SEAC body was seen at TVR Centre (where my car came from) in late 1986 (this coincides), and this subscriber bought it or bought half of it whatever! Was that you pistolar? Whoever it was, can you please tell your story again.
BlaineUK said that the back end of mine was quite different to a lot of cars - can you remember the details Blaine?
JJ
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