School run 4X4's
Discussion
Its a fairly common complaint in here - all the massive 4X4's blocking the roads as mums pick their kids up on the school run. Well in a few years time my missus may be one of them - and here's why.
For the past three years we've owned a little yellow Fiat Seicento as a second car.
(http://web.ukonline.co.uk/peter.nixon/dead_golf/DSC00041.JPG)
In theory its the ideal town car - its small so its easy to park and it can get through gaps in traffic. It averages 40-45mpg whatever you do with it. It can sit four adults in relative comfort. Running costs are low. And its a bit of a laugh - down a wet country lane in the dark it was quicker than my Chimaera.
But when the time comes to replace it, we're going to swap it for a massive off roader. Why?
Because driving it in London traffic is a total pain in the arse. Everyone sees a pretty little yellow car heading towards them and thinks 'I'll pull out in front of that'. And I mean everyone. The car gets picked on every single journey and I'm fed up with it.
I'll give some examples. If I'm driving along in a queue of cars, keeping a reasonable distance like everyone else, and someone is waiting to pull out of a junction, you can guarantee they'll wait for the Fiat then pull out in front of that.
It gets worse. A few weeks back an Audi A4 tried to push out in front of me from a right turning. I ignored him and continued on (there was no-one behind me so he had to wait about 2 more seconds). After pulling out behind me, he then overtakes me and pulls straight in front of me, forcing me to brake violently to avoid contact. This is down a busy suburban street with cars coming towards us too. Tosser.
On the M25 last week I was in the third lane overtaking two lorries at about 80mph. Another Audi - this time an A6 - decides he doesn't want to wait behind the little Fiat, so he sits about 1" from my bumper with his lights full on. Again - tosser.
Driving through New Malden, I pulled out of a junction with no cars in sight either side. A Jag S Type comes flying round a blind corner, sees me in front of him and decides to drive around me with cars coming towards us. An accident is narrowly avoided.
And most recently I sat as a passenger in the car while my wife drove me all the way through central London. The journey was a total nightmare, we got cut up at almost every set of traffic lights, cars went down bus lanes to pull in front of us, no-one let us out of any junctions etc etc. By the time we got to our destination we were both nervous wrecks.
Of course being bullied doesn't bother me so much. I never let anyone out who tries to push in front of me. In the case of the Audi A4 I followed him for 1/4 mile with my hand on the horn then used a better lane at the next roundabout and gained 4 cars on him. And the Audi A6 on the M25 had a slightly longer journey because of his behaviour because I immediately eased off the throttle when I saw him and let him wait even longer. I didn't let the Jag pull in front of me and a level crossing ahead of us was red anyway - so he had to reverse back and pull in behind me again.
But when my wifes driving she DOES get intimidated. And in the case of the M25 incident that might have meant speeding up to a point where she was no longer properly in control.
None of this happens in other cars - I drove 80K in a Mondeo with very few problems. No-one seemed to pull out in front of the TVR - or even try and race it surprisingly enough. And I've yet to have any kind of incident at all in the E320 CDi I'm now driving.
So whats the answer? A big f**k-off 4X4 like all the other school run mums. Who cares if it only gets 15mpg? It'll only do 2k/year. It'll have big bull bars on the front so if anyone does pull out in front of me I can laugh as I smash their car to pieces. It'll have a tow bar on the back to further deter those tossers on the motorway. But of course they won't be needed - because no-one picks on big cars in the first place.
So if in a few years time you're cursing some Landcrusier Amazon thats blocking the road outside some South London school, don't shout too loudly - it might be me.
For the past three years we've owned a little yellow Fiat Seicento as a second car.
(http://web.ukonline.co.uk/peter.nixon/dead_golf/DSC00041.JPG)
In theory its the ideal town car - its small so its easy to park and it can get through gaps in traffic. It averages 40-45mpg whatever you do with it. It can sit four adults in relative comfort. Running costs are low. And its a bit of a laugh - down a wet country lane in the dark it was quicker than my Chimaera.
But when the time comes to replace it, we're going to swap it for a massive off roader. Why?
Because driving it in London traffic is a total pain in the arse. Everyone sees a pretty little yellow car heading towards them and thinks 'I'll pull out in front of that'. And I mean everyone. The car gets picked on every single journey and I'm fed up with it.
I'll give some examples. If I'm driving along in a queue of cars, keeping a reasonable distance like everyone else, and someone is waiting to pull out of a junction, you can guarantee they'll wait for the Fiat then pull out in front of that.
It gets worse. A few weeks back an Audi A4 tried to push out in front of me from a right turning. I ignored him and continued on (there was no-one behind me so he had to wait about 2 more seconds). After pulling out behind me, he then overtakes me and pulls straight in front of me, forcing me to brake violently to avoid contact. This is down a busy suburban street with cars coming towards us too. Tosser.
On the M25 last week I was in the third lane overtaking two lorries at about 80mph. Another Audi - this time an A6 - decides he doesn't want to wait behind the little Fiat, so he sits about 1" from my bumper with his lights full on. Again - tosser.
Driving through New Malden, I pulled out of a junction with no cars in sight either side. A Jag S Type comes flying round a blind corner, sees me in front of him and decides to drive around me with cars coming towards us. An accident is narrowly avoided.
And most recently I sat as a passenger in the car while my wife drove me all the way through central London. The journey was a total nightmare, we got cut up at almost every set of traffic lights, cars went down bus lanes to pull in front of us, no-one let us out of any junctions etc etc. By the time we got to our destination we were both nervous wrecks.
Of course being bullied doesn't bother me so much. I never let anyone out who tries to push in front of me. In the case of the Audi A4 I followed him for 1/4 mile with my hand on the horn then used a better lane at the next roundabout and gained 4 cars on him. And the Audi A6 on the M25 had a slightly longer journey because of his behaviour because I immediately eased off the throttle when I saw him and let him wait even longer. I didn't let the Jag pull in front of me and a level crossing ahead of us was red anyway - so he had to reverse back and pull in behind me again.
But when my wifes driving she DOES get intimidated. And in the case of the M25 incident that might have meant speeding up to a point where she was no longer properly in control.
None of this happens in other cars - I drove 80K in a Mondeo with very few problems. No-one seemed to pull out in front of the TVR - or even try and race it surprisingly enough. And I've yet to have any kind of incident at all in the E320 CDi I'm now driving.
So whats the answer? A big f**k-off 4X4 like all the other school run mums. Who cares if it only gets 15mpg? It'll only do 2k/year. It'll have big bull bars on the front so if anyone does pull out in front of me I can laugh as I smash their car to pieces. It'll have a tow bar on the back to further deter those tossers on the motorway. But of course they won't be needed - because no-one picks on big cars in the first place.
So if in a few years time you're cursing some Landcrusier Amazon thats blocking the road outside some South London school, don't shout too loudly - it might be me.
I couldn't agree more -- as much as I dislike those hateful vehicles with the kiddie-killers (or bull-bars, if you prefer, though kids are more prevalent round our way than bulls) on the front.
I sometimes drive my wife's Ka for one reason or another, and the attitude of other road users compared to when I'm in the cerbie or my citroen daily driver is vastly different.
It seems that many drivers of vectra, mondeo, any bmw or audi or merc consider it a personal affront to be on the road behind such an offensive vehicle as the Ka (or the mini she had previously). It's got nothing to do with getting anywhere more quickly as they often fail to take the most advantageous lane later, as you say. No, it's simply "I'm better than you, so get behind" and "I know you daren't hit me or you'll die".
I'm strongly encouraging my wife to get a larger car next time round, but she's just not happy driving them.
I sometimes drive my wife's Ka for one reason or another, and the attitude of other road users compared to when I'm in the cerbie or my citroen daily driver is vastly different.
It seems that many drivers of vectra, mondeo, any bmw or audi or merc consider it a personal affront to be on the road behind such an offensive vehicle as the Ka (or the mini she had previously). It's got nothing to do with getting anywhere more quickly as they often fail to take the most advantageous lane later, as you say. No, it's simply "I'm better than you, so get behind" and "I know you daren't hit me or you'll die".
I'm strongly encouraging my wife to get a larger car next time round, but she's just not happy driving them.
I think you'd find it a quite different experience in a Polo or a Pug 106.
When people are sizing up traffic they make snap judgements about the likely behaviour of the driver of a given car - we all do it - presume the volvo will not see us, know the metro will drive erratically at half the speed limit, suspect that the 5 series in the mirror is a copper etc. etc// it goes on all the time and the generalisations help us to make decisions based on likelyhood rather than certainty (of which there is little in life).
Whether it be right or not, if I see a yellow Seicento, I'm unlikely to want to be stuck behind it any more than I want to be stuck behind a yellow Hyundai Amica or a purple Micra. Occasionally I'll have misjudged the diver of said car, but more often than not I'm right and it's to my advantage that I eschewed the noddy car.
OTOH, as a consequence of observation, I'm unlikely to make quite the same assumption about a Polo or a Pug 106 because my experience does not tell me that most of the drivers of those are going to get in my way and piss me off.
It's quite possible that none of what I have said applies to you or is true in your case, but my observations stand and if I were pleasantly surprised more often by drivers of Seicentos and the like, then I'd change my attitude and they'd be judged differently when I'm assessing traffic.
My point is, you don't have to buy a Land Cruiser to shirk off the curse of the noddy car, just choose a car that doesn't have "walk all over me" written large on it.
You might say "don't judge me by my car." Well fine, but people do, all the time - not everyone who has a Bimmer is a w*nker, but the car has the reputation and when you see someone in a Bimmer some will think "probably a total w*nker."
>> Edited by CarZee on Tuesday 25th June 10:17
When people are sizing up traffic they make snap judgements about the likely behaviour of the driver of a given car - we all do it - presume the volvo will not see us, know the metro will drive erratically at half the speed limit, suspect that the 5 series in the mirror is a copper etc. etc// it goes on all the time and the generalisations help us to make decisions based on likelyhood rather than certainty (of which there is little in life).
Whether it be right or not, if I see a yellow Seicento, I'm unlikely to want to be stuck behind it any more than I want to be stuck behind a yellow Hyundai Amica or a purple Micra. Occasionally I'll have misjudged the diver of said car, but more often than not I'm right and it's to my advantage that I eschewed the noddy car.
OTOH, as a consequence of observation, I'm unlikely to make quite the same assumption about a Polo or a Pug 106 because my experience does not tell me that most of the drivers of those are going to get in my way and piss me off.
It's quite possible that none of what I have said applies to you or is true in your case, but my observations stand and if I were pleasantly surprised more often by drivers of Seicentos and the like, then I'd change my attitude and they'd be judged differently when I'm assessing traffic.
My point is, you don't have to buy a Land Cruiser to shirk off the curse of the noddy car, just choose a car that doesn't have "walk all over me" written large on it.
You might say "don't judge me by my car." Well fine, but people do, all the time - not everyone who has a Bimmer is a w*nker, but the car has the reputation and when you see someone in a Bimmer some will think "probably a total w*nker."
>> Edited by CarZee on Tuesday 25th June 10:17
quote:
So if in a few years time you're cursing some Landcrusier Amazon thats blocking the road outside some South London school, don't shout too loudly - it might be me.
Well, if you get in my way, in London, with an oversized barge of a 4x4 that you're using to go 200 yards down the road in, then _yes_ you will get shouted at. Escpecially if you've got a - you're never going to see round my car, and kids could step out from behind it at any time - Landcruiser.
The last thing London needs is another 4x4 ridiculouswagon. As CarZee suggests, why not simply buy a car with mroe 'presence'. Mercs are all built like tanks, and as stated above is unlikely to unduly hinder you on your journey. They also have quite a turn of pace. (some at least).
I understand your view of wanting to protect yourself and your wife, it's only natural. Surely a Lancruiser is overkill, you'll have problems parking the damn thing (hopefully)
quote:
As CarZee suggests, why not simply buy a car with mroe 'presence'. Mercs are all built like tanks, and as stated above is unlikely to unduly hinder you on your journey. They also have quite a turn of pace. (some at least).
The point of my article was that if other road users showed some common decency and respect, I wouldn't need to buy a bigger car - we're otherwise more than happy with the Fiat. So maybe its drivers like Carzee that encourage more people to drive 4X4's, as well as (ironically) then complaining about them.
I've already got a Merc (with a turn of pace) and that could well be used - the Landcruiser Amazon was just an extreme tongue in cheek example.
quote:Yeah sure. I didn't say buy a bigger car - I said buy a car with a different image - I said a 106 or a Polo - both cars which IMO get a different reaction to the Sei-shanty.
The point of my article was that if other road users showed some common decency and respect, I wouldn't need to buy a bigger car - we're otherwise more than happy with the Fiat.
So maybe its drivers like Carzee that encourage more people to drive 4X4's, as well as (ironically) then complaining about them.
It's not drivers like me that cause this phenomenon, mate - it's the fact that a lot of the other people who drive the same car as your missus do so very poorly and the mud sticks to all drivers of that car - it a phenomenon which is much more widely experienced and accepted than any CarZee proclaimation. It's human nature - maybe it sucks, but don't blame me for it..
just be pragmatic - live with it or get a car with a different percieved set of traits.
As for the Bland Cruiser, well they're just far too big and far too in the way and its my job to get past them on which ever side necessary so I can see more than 20ft up the road, so expect more agressive behviour from me (hey - it's a 4x4 - I can't possibly be endangering it's passengers!) than you'd ever get in your sei-shanty!
>> Edited by CarZee on Tuesday 25th June 11:20
I dont advocate 4x4's, but I do see spnracing's point. A while back I had the misfortune to have a Micra as a loan car for a while. It seemed like you turned invisible to every other road user !
Presumably it's the "dont want to be stuck in front of that" syndrome, but the trouble is I was disgusted at being given a Micra, so for the time I had the car I was determined to break the damn thing (failed, sadly). I drove the thing flat out, redlining all the time, so I was usually quite bowling along ! (well, relatively speaking) So these idiots pulling out on me usually ended up with a Micra crawling all over them, or braking frantically trying to stop in time ....
Presumably it's the "dont want to be stuck in front of that" syndrome, but the trouble is I was disgusted at being given a Micra, so for the time I had the car I was determined to break the damn thing (failed, sadly). I drove the thing flat out, redlining all the time, so I was usually quite bowling along ! (well, relatively speaking) So these idiots pulling out on me usually ended up with a Micra crawling all over them, or braking frantically trying to stop in time ....
true, true - only last month I had a Micra as a loaner and started a thread about it..
thing is, you expect it, because you understand that the phenomenon exists. But you can't change peoples' perceptions just like that, so you either live with it or get a different car.
I moaned like hell at my dealer for giving me that noddy piece of crap and yes they are damned unbreakable. The thing was I found myself driving quite differently, in accordance with the capabilities of the car and I found myself using my mirrors a lot less than normal, because of the way the car's engineered.. so not all of these cars have an undeserved reputation - the Micra actually makes using all your mirrors a laborious task.
thing is, you expect it, because you understand that the phenomenon exists. But you can't change peoples' perceptions just like that, so you either live with it or get a different car.
I moaned like hell at my dealer for giving me that noddy piece of crap and yes they are damned unbreakable. The thing was I found myself driving quite differently, in accordance with the capabilities of the car and I found myself using my mirrors a lot less than normal, because of the way the car's engineered.. so not all of these cars have an undeserved reputation - the Micra actually makes using all your mirrors a laborious task.
SPN, wouldn't it be ironic if you shelled out for a BlandCruiser and exactly the same thing happened to you on the road ?
Sure as eggs is eggs there will be some of the driving public who are sat behind your turbodiesel on the M25 thinking "I don't want to be behind this carcinogen spluttering tank" and pull the overtaking move of all moves. If that happens, I know a couple of good shrinks to deal with the onset of any inferiority complex you may develop....!
As CarZee pointed out, it's the way of the world, although I think he is to blame for some of the traits and thinking of modern life in general. I was a rabid slavvering vegetablist before I met him. But I'm okay now. Oh yes.
Sure as eggs is eggs there will be some of the driving public who are sat behind your turbodiesel on the M25 thinking "I don't want to be behind this carcinogen spluttering tank" and pull the overtaking move of all moves. If that happens, I know a couple of good shrinks to deal with the onset of any inferiority complex you may develop....!
As CarZee pointed out, it's the way of the world, although I think he is to blame for some of the traits and thinking of modern life in general. I was a rabid slavvering vegetablist before I met him. But I'm okay now. Oh yes.
I have to add though that if the driver is aware and drives a bit more defensively then maybe some of these problems will be alleviated.
I have quite often driven the girlfriends Ka and had people try to bully me.
They tend to get a shock when I dive straight for them (knowing exactly how wide my car is). Although I agree that not all people will have the balls to take on a bigger car, 9 times out of ten people will back down. If not then being 6' 4" helps.
A Fiat ScieWhateveritscalledto probably is not the car to inspire confidence in taking on a big car down a narrow road when they don't want to back down, but many small cars now do inspire safety confidence.
I have quite often driven the girlfriends Ka and had people try to bully me.
They tend to get a shock when I dive straight for them (knowing exactly how wide my car is). Although I agree that not all people will have the balls to take on a bigger car, 9 times out of ten people will back down. If not then being 6' 4" helps.
A Fiat ScieWhateveritscalledto probably is not the car to inspire confidence in taking on a big car down a narrow road when they don't want to back down, but many small cars now do inspire safety confidence.
quote:oh well, my cover is blown.. and by a died in the shower Blue, too
As CarZee pointed out, it's the way of the world, although I think he is to blame for some of the traits and thinking of modern life in general. I was a rabid slavvering vegetablist before I met him. But I'm okay now. Oh yes.
I've only ever driven Mk2 Golf's in central London. I can get from West to East (docklands) in 20mins at the weekend, not bad me thinks.
You will get cut up in London, unfortunately aggressive driving rules. Know the length and width of your car, let the psycho's in, but anyone with a nice car who's trying to be a tosser don't.
There the rules I play by, and I let the occasional person in if they make an effort to gradually creat a gap.
You will get cut up in London, unfortunately aggressive driving rules. Know the length and width of your car, let the psycho's in, but anyone with a nice car who's trying to be a tosser don't.
There the rules I play by, and I let the occasional person in if they make an effort to gradually creat a gap.
quote:Not always! My missus has a pink Polo - the nail polish metallic pink one - and when I drive it (which understandably is on a need only basis
I think you'd find it a quite different experience in a Polo
) I get dissed at every turn. Most of my driving is normally in the A8, which is an imposing beast to say the least, and people get out of the way and/or think twice about pulling out on me. But in the Polo ... open day on the girlie. People are so shallow - not that I'm prone to generalisations you know!
Not suggesting this works for other people but I found my red four door Mk1 Cortina perfect for driving in london. It was not the neatest of cars but was lowered on Lotus wheels. I used to get let out of junctions and generally given space by other road users.
Maybe other drivers did not come across MK1's that often so not having a preconceived idea of their driving style ered on the side of caution and gave me room.
I was a lot younger and only did this once but at one junction I suddenly became invisable and no one would let me out or acknowlage my presence. I found the best way was to light the rear tyres and creep into traffic with plumes of smoke pouring off the tyres...needless to say they let me out
.
Paul
Maybe other drivers did not come across MK1's that often so not having a preconceived idea of their driving style ered on the side of caution and gave me room.
I was a lot younger and only did this once but at one junction I suddenly became invisable and no one would let me out or acknowlage my presence. I found the best way was to light the rear tyres and creep into traffic with plumes of smoke pouring off the tyres...needless to say they let me out
. Paul
One of my mates used to be a fan of 'Bangernomics'
Basically buy an old knackered banger, but with a years Tax/MOT on it and drive arount like a loon. Driving through any large city centre become great fun watching the owners of large German metal dive for cover as there excess is more than the value of the banger And when it dies just take it to a field and torch it
Basically buy an old knackered banger, but with a years Tax/MOT on it and drive arount like a loon. Driving through any large city centre become great fun watching the owners of large German metal dive for cover as there excess is more than the value of the banger
And when it dies just take it to a field and torch it Gassing Station | General Gassing [Archive] | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff