steel frames. should be mandatory

[Rob_T]

some time ago i bought a steel holdsworth frame off ebay and had the LBS build it up. put in a set of mavic wheels and shimano alfine 8 speed hub gears. i've been using it as my commuter hack for the last couple of days and i can now honestly say that this is the best bike i have. my other option commuter is a genesis alu + carbon forks vapour. my road bike is a full carbon, ultegra littered specialised venge expert.

neither of those bikes come close in terms of comfort or ride ability to my holdsworth. this is quite disappointing. for all the advances in technology etc is the bottom line that we have all been conned by marketing claptrap? are we all wearing the emporers new clothes?

steel frame is the way forward. it seems so wrong to say that, and yet, when you ride one, you feel you have to ask why would you want to ride anything else?

anyone else feel the same?

[Vladimir]

Depends on the steel used but my old steel Stumpjumper is still great (my dad has it now) and I cannot fault my recently bought Cotic Soul. The M4 Alu Stumpjumper it replaced was fast but very skittish and hard work down hills.

As a Materials engineering graduate who studied metals for far too long, I prefer steel.

[Raven Flyer]

I couldn't agree more. The root of all evil if Finite Element Analysis. This is Computer Aided Design that is supposed to work out where the stresses are in something like a bottom bracket and then suggest shape and material thickness improvements to cope with the stresses better, giving better power delivery and a lighter frame.

Rubbish.

All you need is an old bloke, in a shed, with a collection of old steel gas pipes and welding kit. He will make you the best bike you ever rode. Steel is the future.

I have tried telling this to plenty of top flight teams, but they just won't listen. Aircraft manufacturers and F1 teams are just the same. Their loss.

[CoolC]

I see the Madison Genesis Road Team will be using a Reynolds steel tubed frame on their bikes.

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/team

Polished stainless, how cool will that look against all the matte black around nowadays.

[anonymous-user]

Raven Flyer said:

I couldn't agree more. The root of all evil if Finite Element Analysis. This is Computer Aided Design that is supposed to work out where the stresses are in something like a bottom bracket and then suggest shape and material thickness improvements to cope with the stresses better, giving better power delivery and a lighter frame.

Rubbish.

All you need is an old bloke, in a shed, with a collection of old steel gas pipes and welding kit. He will make you the best bike you ever rode. Steel is the future.

I have tried telling this to plenty of top flight teams, but they just won't listen. Aircraft manufacturers and F1 teams are just the same. Their loss.

I get your point, though i'm not sure if you;re serious!, but like carbon, not all steel frames are the same. Crappy "gas pipe" steel will be awful and heavy compared to Reynolds Columbus tubing which would be a joy to ride and not too far off the weight of aluminium frames.

I'm another fan of Cotic steel...

[anonymous-user]

Rob_T said:

for all the advances in technology etc is the bottom line that we have all been conned by marketing claptrap? are we all wearing the emporers new clothes?

Speak for yourself, I try to only buy stuff that will give me quantifiable performance improvements. Others buy stuff because it makes them happier, each to their own.

Buying sports stuff because it's more expensive and then announcing "you get what you pay for" or "I buy it because I can" is all very well but don't be surprised if you don't go any faster/better/whatever. Unfortunately that mindset also leaves you one step away from constantly being a bit dissatisfied and always wanting the next new thing.

The bike industry (like many sports) relies on blokes buying a more expensive bike/component/jersey because it's simply more expensive and therefore must be better. The reality is though that like any consumer goods, people buy it because it makes them happier, it's often got very little to do with being "better" from an actual performance point of view.

[BliarOut]

Raven Flyer said:

I couldn't agree more. The root of all evil if Finite Element Analysis. This is Computer Aided Design that is supposed to work out where the stresses are in something like a bottom bracket and then suggest shape and material thickness improvements to cope with the stresses better, giving better power delivery and a lighter frame.

Rubbish.

All you need is an old bloke, in a shed, with a collection of old steel gas pipes and welding kit. He will make you the best bike you ever rode. Steel is the future.

I have tried telling this to plenty of top flight teams, but they just won't listen. Aircraft manufacturers and F1 teams are just the same. Their loss.

Actually he needs brazing rods, not welding kit. Oh, and a brown smock

[IroningMan]

BliarOut said:

Raven Flyer said:

I couldn't agree more. The root of all evil if Finite Element Analysis. This is Computer Aided Design that is supposed to work out where the stresses are in something like a bottom bracket and then suggest shape and material thickness improvements to cope with the stresses better, giving better power delivery and a lighter frame.

Rubbish.

All you need is an old bloke, in a shed, with a collection of old steel gas pipes and welding kit. He will make you the best bike you ever rode. Steel is the future.

I have tried telling this to plenty of top flight teams, but they just won't listen. Aircraft manufacturers and F1 teams are just the same. Their loss.

Actually he needs brazing rods, not welding kit. Oh, and a brown smock

And a tape measure. Engineering by tape measure is the British Way.

[Frik]

Surprised to hear recently that carbon frames are better because they "give". I was under the impression that carbon fibre's greatest asset is its specific stiffness.

[BaronVonVaderham]

Steel for feel is what I was always told.

Daily is a steel Orange P7 Pro, hooning/jump bike is an NS steel and they both have a lovely 'zing' to them, not flexy - just extra 'comfortability' (thanks S. Perez!). Both suspension bikes are aluminium, I guess it's a better platform to hang shocks off.

However have always wanted a Ti frame as apparently the feel can be similar to steel.

[MadDad]

IroningMan said:

BliarOut said:

Raven Flyer said:

I couldn't agree more. The root of all evil if Finite Element Analysis. This is Computer Aided Design that is supposed to work out where the stresses are in something like a bottom bracket and then suggest shape and material thickness improvements to cope with the stresses better, giving better power delivery and a lighter frame.

Rubbish.

All you need is an old bloke, in a shed, with a collection of old steel gas pipes and welding kit. He will make you the best bike you ever rode. Steel is the future.

I have tried telling this to plenty of top flight teams, but they just won't listen. Aircraft manufacturers and F1 teams are just the same. Their loss.

Actually he needs brazing rods, not welding kit. Oh, and a brown smock

And a tape measure. Engineering by tape measure is the British Way.

And an 'eye for it' - very quintessentially British way of doing things!!!

[anonymous-user]

Bamboo is the future!

[DrMekon]

I'm as comfy on my carbon bike as my steel bike, but I find my aluminium bike more punishing.

Not sure I'd ascribe the differences to materials as much as designer's intent. I'm sure you can build stiff, punishing steel bikes and soft comfy carbon bikes.

I do know my steel bike weights a lot more than my carbon bike. I'll be doing my endurance stuff on the carbon bike this year - I'll have to see if it's as comfy over longer distances.

[MadDad]

BaronVonVaderham said:

However have always wanted a Ti frame as apparently the feel can be similar to steel.

I was lucky enough to become the proud owner of a Ti road bike for my 40th late last year - and it is a stunning ride! It is very difficult to describe how it rides, it is as 'comfy and forgiving' as steel, nice and stiff and weighs naff all (7.5kgs with some heavy-ish wheels). The best way I could think of describing it it 'totally alive'!

I also have a steel Ragley Blue Pig hardtail and really love the way that rides - if it were not for the fact the geometry is a bit too downhill for long XC rides I would spend a lot more time in the saddle....!

[MattDell]

MonkeyMatt said:

Bamboo is the future!

You jest, but a friend of mine has a bike he made out of bamboo.

Disregard the idiots in the picture.

[Mr E]

MattDell said:

You jest, but a friend of mine has a bike he made out of bamboo.

No jesting at all. I looked at one as a commuter, but couldn't make the money work.
I'm not convinced I'd want to hammer one down a decent trail...

(my MTB hardtail is steel. I considered a Ragley, but ended up with a DMR Kinesis Versa)

[Rob_T]

not ridden a Ti... that material is missing in my fleet

hmm...

[MadDad]

Rob_T said:

not ridden a Ti... that material is missing in my fleet

hmm...

Do it - you won't regret it.......!

[Vladimir]

Rob_T said:

not ridden a Ti... that material is missing in my fleet

hmm...

I was put off by stories of weld failure. Again I studied it in some detail in my degree and you get the weight of alu (or less) and the springyness of steel BUT it needs to be made properly; low rent Ti frames are the devil's own work.

Research who actually makes it (often a different outfit to the label) and find out how good their grade of Ti is and what their welding is like.

Or this might happen:

[MadDad]

Vladimir said:

Rob_T said:

not ridden a Ti... that material is missing in my fleet

hmm...

I was put off by stories of weld failure. Again I studied it in some detail in my degree and you get the weight of alu (or less) and the springyness of steel BUT it needs to be made properly; low rent Ti frames are the devil's own work.

Research who actually makes it (often a different outfit to the label) and find out how good their grade of Ti is and what their welding is like.

Or this might happen:

I think the same rule applies to anything though, carbon being probably the best example!