996 GT3 MK1 vs MK2

[doneitnow]

Could you knowledgeable PH folk explain what the main differences are between the 996 GT3 MK1 and the MK2? and what makes so many people have the opinion that the the MK1 is superior?

Thanks Alan

[Fat hippo]

A couple of reasons are that the mk1 was the original so some people will always prefer that.
In my eyes it also looks better with the swan spoiler compared to the mk2.

More significantly, it was built in smaller numbers than the mk2 and i understand that they are slightly more involving to drive. No doubt other members will be able to explain here as ive not driven one

[marky911]

Rarer, nicer rear wing and wheels. As said it's the original one.

All totally matter of opinion though.

Mk2s also look great, maybe a bit sharper and have better brakes as standard, although most Mk1s have the Mk2 calipers fitted by now.
The Mk2 has 21bhp more. Can you feel it? I don't know but if you were bothered you could fiddle with a Mk1 to obtain the same power or more.
What's more important is the single mass flywheel, not fitted to Mk2 comforts iirc. The revs rise and drop so quickly. A definite distinctive feature of the car.

Here's a thread I started when I had the choice of a 1999 Mk1 with 60k or a 2005 Mk2 with 17k. I went for the Mk1 as the Mk2 just didn't excite me in the same way.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I just desperately wanted a Mk1 Clubsport. No regrets at all so far.

[thegoose]

marky911 said:

What's more important is the single mass flywheel, not fitted to Mk2 comforts iirc. The revs rise and drop so quickly. A definite distinctive feature of the car.

It wasn't fitted to mk1 Comforts either, it was only fitted to Mk1 Clubsports, although to be fair it isn't a difficult upgrade to any of the others.

[marky911]

Ah yeah, I wasn't sure if it was fitted to all Mk1s.

I agree it's not a hard upgrade to make really, I was mainly mentioning it as people often mention the 21hp that the Mk2 is up on the Mk1 whereas I think a single mass flywheel brings more to the party than 21hp, but either isn't hard to add, although a remap is a lot cheaper then the flywheel plus fitting.

Anyway, I suppose that's more a comfort vs clubsport argument rather than mk1 vs mk2, so a bit pointless anyway.
I've just finished a nightshift hence I'm rambling. Time for bed I think.

[andy102]

The MK1 feels slightly more "race car" and the MK2 a small amount softer. Porsche decided to spilt the range after the MK1, so GT3 and GT3 RS. The MK1 sits between the two.

I went for a MK2 comfort, as I like to take it on road trips not just track days.

[Pugley]

The Mk1 was the last Porsche to have a throttle cable and, apart from ABS, no other driver aids - None

[anonymous-user]

Looks are up to the individual (I prefer wheels on mk2 and façt that it doesn't look like body kitted normal 996) but build quality was an issue for me - Mk2 benefitted from Porsche's upgrade of 996 after getting some stick on quality of finish. Only small stuff but there is a noticeable difference (nicer plastics, better trim, fewer squeaks and rattles).
Both great cars though.

[Junior Bianno]

doneitnow said:

..and what makes so many people have the opinion that the the MK1 is superior?

Are you sure about that? My observation is opinions tend to be polarised. Sure, a lot like Mk1s more, but there are plenty people that would only be interested in a Mk2. Personally it's a Mk2 all way for me. Just looks and sits better to my eye. Much more contemporary than the Mk1. Don't like the Mk1 alloys, the curvy rear wing and fried egg lights.

It's all about opinions, but I would say there is just as ready a market for the Mk2 as the Mk1.

[mrdemon]

MK2 two's better in just about every respect.
BHP, Engine, Brakes , Body kit etc etc

they did quite a bit on the engine inside.
Body kit is more GT3 style and the brakes work. (still the same disks etc on the 997 GT3)
As for rare lol they are all rare.

MK2 every time for me. plus it's a lot newer which is always nice.

Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 20th February 11:01

[s5tvr]

mrdemon said:

MK2 two's better in just about every respect.
BHP, Engine, Brakes , Body kit etc etc

they did quite a bit on the engine inside.
Body kit is more GT3 style and the brakes work. (still the same disks etc on the 997 GT3)
As for rare lol they are all rare.

MK2 every time for me. plus it's a lot newer which is always nice.

Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 20th February 11:01

And here's Chris Harris's view

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

[Slippydiff]

s5tvr said:

And here's Chris Harris's view.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

Another piece of Jeremy Vine R2 lunchtime show type journalism. Supposed to initiate "healthy debate", but normally turns into something very different. As ever, CH leaves the majority of rebuttals of his views unanswered.

[fioran0]

Haha. Excellent.
Nice to see you back Henry

[slodge]

There has been lots written on this and to dredge up a cliche - it's really down to personal preference. You need to drive good (and well set up) examples of each. I went through a similar process last summer and opted for Mk1. Objectively Mk2 is the better car, subjectively I preferred the drive and look of the Mk1. IMO felt more organic and old school and I loved the fact it was the one that started the whole thing off, we are however getting down to smallest detail here.

I feel very lucky to have an example of any GT3 on the drive. Just got back from a grin inducing blast in mine. That engine sound never gets old!!

Cheers

Slodge

[doneitnow]

Pleased I asked the question, some very informative replies thanks, and the CH article very subjective lol.
Just one more question, in his article he states the GT3 engine costs the best part of 40k, what does it cost to rebuild/sort it out if it goes bang and just how reliable are they?

Thanks again Alan

[kingstondc5]

slodge said:

I went through a similar process last summer and opted for Mk1. Objectively Mk2 is the better car,

There you go, even mk1 owners acknowledging that mk2's are better.

Case solved

[slodge]

kingstondc5 said:

There you go, even mk1 owners acknowledging that mk2's are better.

Case solved

Lol - there's me trying to be even-handed. Objectively 991 is a better car than a 993RS. I know which I'd have ;-)

Cheers

Slodge

[Harris_I]

doneitnow said:

Just one more question, in his article he states the GT3 engine costs the best part of 40k, what does it cost to rebuild/sort it out if it goes bang and just how reliable are they?

The answer is zero to infinity. I had a top end and gearbox rebuild which added up to around £10k, though that was mostly with Dubai labour rates which are cheaper than the UK.

Generally engines are just about the strongest you will find on any road car. Mine had raced competitively for 2.5 seasons (and a fair number of seasons before that in amateur sprint championships) before the rebuild which I think is as good an endorsement as you can get. Try that with any Ferrari or Lambo.

Given what people are paying for 964 turbos and the like these days, 996 GT3s are ludicrously cheap. Eventually the market will work it out and then it's too late. Get in there.

In fact, at current prices, I might have considered having a second pristine 6.GT3 sitting in the garage if I hadn't already inflicted a lifetime of suffering on my missus.

[GentlePersuasion]

doneitnow said:

Could you knowledgeable PH folk explain what the main differences are between the 996 GT3 MK1 and the MK2? and what makes so many people have the opinion that the the MK1 is superior?

Thanks Alan

Ultimately, it was the last road-going Porsche to be built on the motorsport production line. It's lighter than the MKII also.

The MKII is slightly more powerful, but needs a decent geo set-up to extract the most from it. It was also the first GT3 to be offered with cup holders...

Rarity over the more ubiquitous MK2 will help cement MK1 values also.

[Slippydiff]

kingstondc5 said:

There you go, even mk1 owners acknowledging that mk2's are better.

Case solved

Written by someone far more eloquent than I :

"To me, as an averagely talented road car driver it's that very 'analogue', unfiltered feedback from the controls that gives me the warm glow of satisfaction that comes with handling something so obviously mechanical, a machine rather than a slick consumer product.

Like all the nuances in the soundtrack of a truly great engine and the way you can almost feel the cogs separating and engaging in a good manual shift gearbox, all the tiny movements of the steering wheel in your hands, telegraphing what's going on between tyres and road surface beyond a simple message of 'grip/no grip' that enrichen and enliven the experience.

It's why classics and some low-volume specials can get under ones skin so much more easily than arguably vastly superior machinery.

It doesn't make me any faster. It doesn't make me any more confident (given the constraints of road driving, either is probably A Good Thing). But it does make me happier"

So the Mk2 may be a better car than the Mk1. But better doesn't always mean more fun or as engaging.
An example. My Gen 1 997 GT3 was a better car than any of the Mk1 996 GT3s I've owned, but ultimately it was dull to drive, lacking in engagement and in tactility too.

My warmed over Mk1 is far more visceral, engaging, tactile and FUN to drive than the Mk2 or any of the 997 iterations. True, it's slower and more compromised, but as the quote above says :

"It's why classics and some low-volume specials can get under ones skin so much more easily than arguably vastly superior machinery."

Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 20th February 18:28