My quest for more.....
Discussion
My quest has begun, it is a quest that every PH'er has to deal with every year of there life, until the last remaining drop of Super U has flowed through the veins of life, we all want, sorry need more POWER!
Now, my car is nice a refined, well, that is until I get behind the wheel anyway, leccy windows, sunroof, comfy seats, CD player, sitting on a motorway at 80 and having a nice chat with someone is no probs, something that isn't so easy in a tiv!
BUT, my car is slow, heavy, and particularly unexciting 99.999% of the time!
The horses are getting tired, but then, If you had run for 96000 miles so would you! The whip isn't as whippy as it should be, the car is becoming a slow bidies car, and I can't allow this too happen!
I have several options open to me, 2 came from this planet and one came from cloud cookoo land, but hear me out!
1. Full engine rebuild, clean all the oil channels, new (salvaged Cylinder head, preferably from a 1.6 CVH!) stronger valves and lifters, fast road cam, btter fuel line, stronger pistons and crank, and possibly a small 50 - 100 BHP nitrous shot!
2. Entirely different engine, 1.8/2.0 zetec, again, fast road cam stronger components throughout, possibly a nitrous shot but maybe not!
3. Cloud cookoo land - Source a ****ed up Escort Cosworth, salvage brakes, rear axel, engine, gearbox, clutch, brake lines, fuel line and anything else that may be of some use, tune it to give approx 250 - 300 BHP and then stick on a 250 BHP nitrous shot!
Obviously leave bodywork as standard and scare the living shit out of any maxxy w*nker who wants to have a go! Think about it, 500 - 550 BHP ON A BUTTON.....
Now, my car is nice a refined, well, that is until I get behind the wheel anyway, leccy windows, sunroof, comfy seats, CD player, sitting on a motorway at 80 and having a nice chat with someone is no probs, something that isn't so easy in a tiv!
BUT, my car is slow, heavy, and particularly unexciting 99.999% of the time!
The horses are getting tired, but then, If you had run for 96000 miles so would you! The whip isn't as whippy as it should be, the car is becoming a slow bidies car, and I can't allow this too happen!
I have several options open to me, 2 came from this planet and one came from cloud cookoo land, but hear me out!
1. Full engine rebuild, clean all the oil channels, new (salvaged Cylinder head, preferably from a 1.6 CVH!) stronger valves and lifters, fast road cam, btter fuel line, stronger pistons and crank, and possibly a small 50 - 100 BHP nitrous shot!
2. Entirely different engine, 1.8/2.0 zetec, again, fast road cam stronger components throughout, possibly a nitrous shot but maybe not!
3. Cloud cookoo land - Source a ****ed up Escort Cosworth, salvage brakes, rear axel, engine, gearbox, clutch, brake lines, fuel line and anything else that may be of some use, tune it to give approx 250 - 300 BHP and then stick on a 250 BHP nitrous shot!
Obviously leave bodywork as standard and scare the living shit out of any maxxy w*nker who wants to have a go! Think about it, 500 - 550 BHP ON A BUTTON.....Oh beeeehaveeee! Every major component in the car will explode for a start.
It's clear you need power, but theres a tight budget. Theree must be some seriously quick cars around for not much cash. I reckon you could find something for a grand or two that'll blow the orion into the weeds.
Don't laugh, a mate used to have an RS turbo (I know, I know). But this was VERY fast for only 2k back then. Ther must be some slightly better cars around for not much either. Someone help me out....more suggestions....
It's clear you need power, but theres a tight budget. Theree must be some seriously quick cars around for not much cash. I reckon you could find something for a grand or two that'll blow the orion into the weeds.
Don't laugh, a mate used to have an RS turbo (I know, I know). But this was VERY fast for only 2k back then. Ther must be some slightly better cars around for not much either. Someone help me out....more suggestions....
tvradict,
do you really think the Orion's worth it? I mean it's luvvly how it is, because it is genuine, it doesn't pretend to be sth. else.
It's not a sportscar, and it'll never be!
It's been designed for its purpose, as sportscars are, but they have a
different design.
Why not spare some money and go for the real thing?
Maybe Lancia Delta?
Alfa Romeo 75 'America' (3.0 V6)?
Alfa GTV6?
.
.
.
.
do you really think the Orion's worth it? I mean it's luvvly how it is, because it is genuine, it doesn't pretend to be sth. else.
It's not a sportscar, and it'll never be!
It's been designed for its purpose, as sportscars are, but they have a
different design. Why not spare some money and go for the real thing?
Maybe Lancia Delta?
Alfa Romeo 75 'America' (3.0 V6)?
Alfa GTV6?
.
.
.
.
quote:
Think about it, 500 - 550 BHP ON A BUTTON.....
Don't underestimate the amount of work it'll take to get the transmission to survive that amount of power, and the cost of brake and suspension upgrades to make the car remotely safe. And insurance could be tricky. I assume you recognise that this sort of mod would make it very difficult to sell the car and you certainly wouldn't get back anything ilke the money you'll have spent on it.
Not saying don't do it, but do it because you enjoy the challenge of doing it, not because you think it'll be a cost effective or practical route to a faster or better handling car.
Bodo - I know a guy with a Lancia Integrale which he may sell to me, but, I think he totalled the engine and the front strut when he got a tad excited on a roundabout! Might think about that!
Tabs - I have had two vauxhalls already in my driving career and have vowed never to own one again unless they offer me a 95% discount on a VX220! AS for the beemers, well, what can I say they are beemers!
Basically, I don't want to get rid of the Orion, it's not spectacular, but it's in pretty damn good nick for a 9 year old car! It's not a sportscar, never will be, but then I'm not trying to turn it into one, just a quick car. Damaged Cossie's can be obtained for as little as £500 although most go for around the £2K mark, If I got one of them, most of the stuff I need would be there already, and I just have to find a few odds and sods! Suspension and brakes would need to be sorted, but the brakes could come off the cossie, as for the other 2 options, a few hundred spent at a scrappy would get me most of what I need but the Fast Road Cams would come from somewhere like burton power!!
Tabs - I have had two vauxhalls already in my driving career and have vowed never to own one again unless they offer me a 95% discount on a VX220! AS for the beemers, well, what can I say they are beemers!
Basically, I don't want to get rid of the Orion, it's not spectacular, but it's in pretty damn good nick for a 9 year old car! It's not a sportscar, never will be, but then I'm not trying to turn it into one, just a quick car. Damaged Cossie's can be obtained for as little as £500 although most go for around the £2K mark, If I got one of them, most of the stuff I need would be there already, and I just have to find a few odds and sods! Suspension and brakes would need to be sorted, but the brakes could come off the cossie, as for the other 2 options, a few hundred spent at a scrappy would get me most of what I need but the Fast Road Cams would come from somewhere like burton power!!
Some good ideas there. Just bear in mind the more interesting cars like Alfa will cost more to run than UK cars. This is down to spare parts cost and availability. Also bear in mind turbo's will need replacing sooner or later - NOT cheap! Your cheapest option for fun would be a naturally aspirated UK car. Lightness is the key for fun handling. I used to have a 106GTi. It was an absolute riot! Amazing handling, sooo much fun. A light car with 120bhp is often much faster than a heavy one with 180 odd bhp.
quote:
quote:
Think about it, 500 - 550 BHP ON A BUTTON.....
Don't underestimate the amount of work it'll take to get the transmission to survive that amount of power, and the cost of brake and suspension upgrades to make the car remotely safe. And insurance could be tricky. I assume you recognise that this sort of mod would make it very difficult to sell the car and you certainly wouldn't get back anything ilke the money you'll have spent on it.
Not saying don't do it, but do it because you enjoy the challenge of doing it, not because you think it'll be a cost effective or practical route to a faster or better handling car.
Pete,
The challenge is driving this one more than the resale value or any other value. I would spend more time preparing and gathering parts (engine, brakes, springs, shockls, wishbones, etc) and talking to experts about it! I'm not going to have in done by the end of the year, far from it! But I would like to make the car handle batter and get the car moving, maybe even sprint it eventually!
I'm not saying this sort of mod would be easy, but what would be better? Sorting all the internals and handling or making it look like a halfords show car?
Say your orion is worth 500 quid. The bits you want will cost say 1k. The huge amount of work involved in the conversion will cost you about 1k in labour. You will have spent 2500 pounds on a car that will still only sell for 500 pounds, maybe 1k if your lucky.
If you trade the orion in and spend the same on a decent solid car you'll be laughing when you sell it on. You'll get back virtually all you spent on it. This will be your deposit on the next better car, and so on...
But it's your money, afterall.
If you trade the orion in and spend the same on a decent solid car you'll be laughing when you sell it on. You'll get back virtually all you spent on it. This will be your deposit on the next better car, and so on...
But it's your money, afterall.
Roadrunner, don't take this the wrong way, but most of the cars you have mentioned are the cars of sheep!
I am a shepherd!
To be honest, I would prefer to have a unique car, one which no one else has, which know one else would think of doing. V6 Cav, 106 GTi's are all decent cars (for what they are) but at the end of they day they have been taken over by the max'd mob, and I would prefer not to be associated by a group of people who use superglue and gaffer tape to make there rust buckets look good! Get my drift!
I am a shepherd!
To be honest, I would prefer to have a unique car, one which no one else has, which know one else would think of doing. V6 Cav, 106 GTi's are all decent cars (for what they are) but at the end of they day they have been taken over by the max'd mob, and I would prefer not to be associated by a group of people who use superglue and gaffer tape to make there rust buckets look good! Get my drift!
I had a brand new silver 106. It was standard - no gaffer tape.
I'm not sure you can be so aloof when you modding a fairly common orion.
My last scrap of advide would be to buy power upgrades that you could at least take with you when you sell the car on. Stuff like bolt on nitrous is a good example. If you spend money on engine internals it will be lost forever. I can't help thinking your on a mission to blow up a knackered old jalopy and end up penniless using the bus. Your choice though. Have fun...
I'm not sure you can be so aloof when you modding a fairly common orion.
My last scrap of advide would be to buy power upgrades that you could at least take with you when you sell the car on. Stuff like bolt on nitrous is a good example. If you spend money on engine internals it will be lost forever. I can't help thinking your on a mission to blow up a knackered old jalopy and end up penniless using the bus. Your choice though. Have fun...
I agree with Roadrunner:
small hothatches are a good way to a cheap fast runner.
I was impressed by Pug 205 'Rallye' its sound: just like early 1600 Lotus with a lot of backfire (?) in std. exhaust!
appearance:
white colored, white steel wheels (no alloy or hub caps lookalike), decent bucket seats an no comfort options.
Or you do what my brother did:
After he crshed his pride and joy, a real Mini Cooper, he looked for a cheap transport until he finds another suitable Cooper:
He bought a late Rover 114GTi an converted it to early Austin Metro
style (bumpers, headlights, tail lights, etc.) no hint for a GTi was left!!!
Imagine the faces of Beemer E46 drivers when
d up by small pile o'sh!te 
small hothatches are a good way to a cheap fast runner.
I was impressed by Pug 205 'Rallye' its sound: just like early 1600 Lotus with a lot of backfire (?) in std. exhaust!
appearance:
white colored, white steel wheels (no alloy or hub caps lookalike), decent bucket seats an no comfort options.
Or you do what my brother did:
After he crshed his pride and joy, a real Mini Cooper, he looked for a cheap transport until he finds another suitable Cooper:
He bought a late Rover 114GTi an converted it to early Austin Metro
style (bumpers, headlights, tail lights, etc.) no hint for a GTi was left!!! Imagine the faces of Beemer E46 drivers when
d up by small pile o'sh!te On the buying a damaged cossie thing... Aren't a lot of the bits incompatible with the Orion? I thought the Escort cossie used a Sierra floorpan mated to a modified (inc. dimensionally) Escort body?
I gotta agree with others on here - while I like the idea of modifying a production car (see below), can't really see the point when you are starting with an Orion.
I have modified my Midget, replacing u/s components with uprated ones as I went, but will get less than 4k, when i have spent 8k. I could have had a nice TVR wedge for that. But while the Midget will never be as good as a wedge I don't mind, 'cos I have enjoyed owning and developing the Midget over time (9 years!) and I couldn't afford a wedge at the time anyway.
If you are looking for a quick speed fix, and not looking at it as an ongoing (almost educational?) project I think in this case you are better off not starting with what you have.
For example (just my choice ), a Nissan 200SX could be had for 1500 quid if you're careful. Then at least you start with a RWD, (arguably) pretty coupe, and if you want modify as you go along you have a solid base to work on (that's not too Max Power, although perhaps a bit Fast & Furious ).
Cheers, Phil
>> Edited by filmidget on Saturday 22 June 16:20
I gotta agree with others on here - while I like the idea of modifying a production car (see below), can't really see the point when you are starting with an Orion.
I have modified my Midget, replacing u/s components with uprated ones as I went, but will get less than 4k, when i have spent 8k. I could have had a nice TVR wedge for that. But while the Midget will never be as good as a wedge I don't mind, 'cos I have enjoyed owning and developing the Midget over time (9 years!) and I couldn't afford a wedge at the time anyway.
If you are looking for a quick speed fix, and not looking at it as an ongoing (almost educational?) project I think in this case you are better off not starting with what you have.
For example (just my choice
), a Nissan 200SX could be had for 1500 quid if you're careful. Then at least you start with a RWD, (arguably) pretty coupe, and if you want modify as you go along you have a solid base to work on (that's not too Max Power, although perhaps a bit Fast & Furious ). Cheers, Phil
>> Edited by filmidget on Saturday 22 June 16:20
If you've got about £1000, would you like a Lotus?
I know of a couple of Elite's and an Eclat for sale at about that sort of money, not brilliant condition, but MOT'd and useable 2litre twin cams at 160hp!
There are very few around, think when the last time you saw one on the road was? Spares are not frighteningly expensive, and can be found with little trouble, and COOL comes in bucket loads!
Have a look at mine, it's in the members cars bit, see what you could get, got to be better than an Orion,right?!
I know of a couple of Elite's and an Eclat for sale at about that sort of money, not brilliant condition, but MOT'd and useable 2litre twin cams at 160hp!
There are very few around, think when the last time you saw one on the road was? Spares are not frighteningly expensive, and can be found with little trouble, and COOL comes in bucket loads!
Have a look at mine, it's in the members cars bit, see what you could get, got to be better than an Orion,right?!
quote:Agreed - I loved mine - if you can pick up an M or N with less that 100k on it & FSH, you'll have a stompin motor whose engine will be good for 50k of pure abuse. A nice loose V6 Cav will blow away a V6 Vectra and any Mondeo short of the ST200 will have trouble too. Insurance Grp16.
V6 Cavalier, Cavalier SRi 130, BMW 320i e30, BMW 325i e30 etc.....I'd go for the V6 Cav, and take the badge off the boot if you want a Q car. 175 bhp for about £1200.
Only area I'd have made changes on mine in a hurry, which I didn't get around to because fo the sort of driving I was mostly doing, is to spend a few hundred sorting the boat-like suspension out. Buy the lowest spec model - I had a CDX which was loaded with goodies, but had the extra weight to show for it.
Don't bother with 2litre SRis - usually badly abused pieces of junk. Don't know much about the GSi 2000s though - might be worth a look? V6 much better though
Tvradict - Filmidget is right, the Escort Cossie was not an Escort. It was a re-bodied Sierra floorpan, not one panel was standard. Whether or not any parts are compatible is very doubtful!
Save yourself a lot of effort and go out & spend your hard earned cash on something that will give a return when you are finished with it. That 944 sounds like seriously good value!
Save yourself a lot of effort and go out & spend your hard earned cash on something that will give a return when you are finished with it. That 944 sounds like seriously good value!
Modding cars properly is always more expensive than you would plan for as others have said. I stuck a stage 3 fast road 2.0 engine in my MGB and found it then shortened the life of the diff and propshaft UJ's due to the extra stress, plus the brakes and suspension have had to be upgraded. I've spent 3 times what the cars worth.
I think you'd be better off buying somthing else than spending a lot of time and money on your Orion.
I think you'd be better off buying somthing else than spending a lot of time and money on your Orion.
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