Messi + the scoring record...
Discussion
Messi probably wouldn't of achieved it with any other team. Barcelona are set up to play through him and it works perfectly. Also when they go 2/3 goals clear they actively try and set him up. His support acts of Xavi and Iniesta help but if you watched the game last night his finishing was outstanding.
I dont think any other player will achieve this, Messi is the best player to ever play the game in my opinion, as well as scoring he gets a signifcant amount of assists, can dribble, take freekicks and his genuine love for the game makes him want to play every game even when carrying small injuries.
I dont think any other player will achieve this, Messi is the best player to ever play the game in my opinion, as well as scoring he gets a signifcant amount of assists, can dribble, take freekicks and his genuine love for the game makes him want to play every game even when carrying small injuries.
He's the only one who could have done it, and he could only have done it in that team in that league (top flight leagues I mean).
Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
SOme say George Best was the greatest but he never did that much with Northern Ireland. Okay,he didn't have the players aroun d him at NI, unlike Messi, who has a fair few decent players with him when the Argies play - but his touch is sublime, he makes goals out of nothing and his general love of the game and the way he plays it, for me, make him the best certainly that I've seen.
If I had the chance to go watch Ronaldo or Messi play, it'd be Messi.
If I had the chance to go watch Ronaldo or Messi play, it'd be Messi.
London424 said:
He's the only one who could have done it, and he could only have done it in that team in that league (top flight leagues I mean).
Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
I agree with this. Also be good to see him take on a new challenge elsewhere at a smaller club (like maradona at napoli) but I can't see that happening with salaries, contracts, endorsements etc. Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
London424 said:
He's the only one who could have done it, and he could only have done it in that team in that league (top flight leagues I mean).
Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
He's got 12 goals in his last 9 internationals! If that isn't 'doing it' for Argentina, then what is!?Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
Phenomenal goal scoring record, definitely a great player .... but you have to wonder if part of the genius is down to allowing him to play and that Barca do seem to play through him / the main set piece man? For example, would he still have achieved this record in a more (this is highly debatable of course) 'robust defending' style of league such as the English Premiership? A league where week in / week out he would have been booted to feck in every game by less skillful players out to make a name for themselves and therefore picked up more than a few injuries or restricted to less opportunities in front of goal? Also, is the Spanish league easier than others - some of the weaker opposition in it does look a bit like fodder?
As much as it's great watching him in full flow pulling defenders apart, the worst bit of breaking the record is still to come when the pundits will be out with their w**k socks again, wanting to have his babies, but completely failing to mention doing the square route of heehaw on the international stage yet (hopefully soon to be addressed).
As much as it's great watching him in full flow pulling defenders apart, the worst bit of breaking the record is still to come when the pundits will be out with their w**k socks again, wanting to have his babies, but completely failing to mention doing the square route of heehaw on the international stage yet (hopefully soon to be addressed).
The man is so good that arguably the best group of club players ever are set up to get the best results out of him. It works, but you need a serious amount of skill, fitness and dedication to do what he has done. Suarez? Too petulant, a good player but he's a moaner, not as good a passer or finisher as Messi. RVP? Injuries throughout his career, finishing is right up there but I don't think his fitness would hold up like Messi's, his passing and intelligence is also right up there, but Messi just has that bit more. What about Zlatan? All that raving about a goal in an empty net and how he's possily the best out and out striker at the moment, he went to Barca and flopped.
Ronaldo is the only other who could possibly do it, but you could argue that Madrid have just as many creative playmakers and that he's given just as much a free rein as Messi in every game. Apart from a few of the harder ones where he's required to track back.
Ronaldo is the only other who could possibly do it, but you could argue that Madrid have just as many creative playmakers and that he's given just as much a free rein as Messi in every game. Apart from a few of the harder ones where he's required to track back.
uk66fastback said:
SOme say George Best was the greatest but he never did that much with Northern Ireland.
Well it was him and 10 duffers.Not that I think Best was the greatest, not even close. His career was over at 26, so difficult to judge. If Michael Owen had got crocked for good just after the 98 world cup, people could have said he was the greatest, but look how it turned out? And what about Duncan Edwards. He was phenomenal by all accounts, but tragically killed aged 21.
I think Messi definitely could be the greatest, if he has a long career and keeps going the way he is. But at 24 or whatever he is, it's too early yet. Still Maradonna & Pele at the top for my money.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
uk66fastback said:
SOme say George Best was the greatest but he never did that much with Northern Ireland.
Well it was him and 10 duffers.Not that I think Best was the greatest, not even close. His career was over at 26, so difficult to judge. If Michael Owen had got crocked for good just after the 98 world cup, people could have said he was the greatest, but look how it turned out? And what about Duncan Edwards. He was phenomenal by all accounts, but tragically killed aged 21.
I think Messi definitely could be the greatest, if he has a long career and keeps going the way he is. But at 24 or whatever he is, it's too early yet. Still Maradonna & Pele at the top for my money.
RVP and Suarez shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Messi!
No one apart from Ronaldo right now would come close to doing what Messi has done at Barca, and then I think Ronaldo still wouldn't be able to do what Messi has done.
Two different players.
Can RVP run past 4 defenders and then put the ball past the keeper? No.
Can Suarez? No.
Can Ronaldo? Sometimes yes but not as often as Messi does.
No one in this day in age could do it apart from Messi.
He scores alot of goals without needing the help of other team mates.
Not many other people do that.
Answering the original thread topic.
No he wouldn't have beat the record at another club.
Barcelona are Barcelona and I think when teams play them they have to not only think about Messi on the pitch but also Iniesta, Xavi receiving the ball, then Alves making runs down the wing, combine that with every other attacking player knowing what to do with the ball at their feet would make the psychological game of the opposition make them feel always on the back foot.
Teams in the premier league aren't scared of eachother.
A Stoke or West Ham aren't scared going to Old Trafford, home of Man Utd who have dominated English footy the past 20 years.
Playing against 3 of the top 4 in the world being Messi, Iniesta and Xavi really must make teams s
t themself.
Real Madrid don't present that threat in my eyes and neither do Man Utd at the mo.
No one apart from Ronaldo right now would come close to doing what Messi has done at Barca, and then I think Ronaldo still wouldn't be able to do what Messi has done.
Two different players.
Can RVP run past 4 defenders and then put the ball past the keeper? No.
Can Suarez? No.
Can Ronaldo? Sometimes yes but not as often as Messi does.
No one in this day in age could do it apart from Messi.
He scores alot of goals without needing the help of other team mates.
Not many other people do that.
Answering the original thread topic.
No he wouldn't have beat the record at another club.
Barcelona are Barcelona and I think when teams play them they have to not only think about Messi on the pitch but also Iniesta, Xavi receiving the ball, then Alves making runs down the wing, combine that with every other attacking player knowing what to do with the ball at their feet would make the psychological game of the opposition make them feel always on the back foot.
Teams in the premier league aren't scared of eachother.
A Stoke or West Ham aren't scared going to Old Trafford, home of Man Utd who have dominated English footy the past 20 years.
Playing against 3 of the top 4 in the world being Messi, Iniesta and Xavi really must make teams s
t themself.Real Madrid don't present that threat in my eyes and neither do Man Utd at the mo.
Edited by CraigMST on Tuesday 11th December 01:09
Edited by CraigMST on Tuesday 11th December 01:10
CraigMST said:
He scores alot of goals without needing the help of other team mates.
Not many other people do that.
Yup, Barca don't exactly put them on a plate for him. A lot of his goals are from him picking up a loose ball in the final third and creating chances himself. Not many other people do that.
I think an on form Ronaldinho wasn't far off Messi but he was never as consistant.
harryowl said:
London424 said:
He's the only one who could have done it, and he could only have done it in that team in that league (top flight leagues I mean).
Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
He's got 12 goals in his last 9 internationals! If that isn't 'doing it' for Argentina, then what is!?Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
KarlMac said:
harryowl said:
London424 said:
He's the only one who could have done it, and he could only have done it in that team in that league (top flight leagues I mean).
Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
He's got 12 goals in his last 9 internationals! If that isn't 'doing it' for Argentina, then what is!?Incredible accomplishment though.
For me, to be considered the greatest I need him to do it for Argentina. I know it's an oft used argument but doing it in a league where there are only 2 teams and you regularly see 4+ goals scored by Real and Barca I need something else in addition.
Just my 2 cents.
It's hardly like he's playing with a bunch of scrubs with Argentina either. They have Tevez, Aguero and Higuain as the other forwards.
He also hasn't won the Copa America either.
For me, to be in the discussion of greatest of all time you have to, at the very minimum, have won the Copa or World Cup.
This is obviously just my opinion and others will have other criteria they use to measure.
Pony said:
Spanna said:
Zlatan?, he went to Barca and flopped.
are you mad? He scored 16 goals in 29 league games and won the0 Liga title, how is that flopping? Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff