Tuscans versus Tasmins
Despite the mixed grid, racing was close
The latest round of the Manugistics TVRCC Challenge Cup, which started with an all-Tasmin lineup, provided a glimpse of a possible future for the Tuscan Challenge racing Cars.
The fantastic Rockingham facility in Northamptonshire was the venue for the latest episode in the evolution of this growing series, with two classic TVR encounters.
With the first appearance of an ex-Tuscan Challenge car, by invitation, there was much speculation in the paddock about how the TVRCC cars would fare against the all out racer. Some expressed concerns that there would be such a gulf in performance that speed differentials would be dangerous.
As it turned out the teams and spectators were treated to thrilling racing between the stalwart Tasmins, three racing Griffiths and the Tuscan.
Tuscans stretch a lead
Into race one, and at the end of the opening lap, it was no surprise to find the leader to be two-times Tuscan Challenge Champion, Steve Guglielmi. However, in his return to competitive motorsport, he was driving the road legal Griffith 500 of TMS Performance vehicles. Not far behind was Doug Ellwood driving the super-fast, Rover-engined Tuscan of David Gerald TVR.
Unfortunately, half way around lap two, Guglielmi's engine blew itself apart and Ellwood moved ominously into the lead. Was the Tuscan about to dominate as had been predicted?
As Ellwood put the hammer down, the TVRCC Griffith of Bowes would not let him get away and over the next five laps a titanic struggle saw the lead swap between them several times. A few seconds behind the leaders, a trio of Turbo Tasmins were showing that there is still life in the old wedges yet.
The crowd was treated to some thrilling racing all the way down the grid and, as the field poured round the banking for the final time, Ellwood just squeaked home ahead of Bowes with Lewis, Reynolds and Hall following in Turbo Tasmins.
In class A privateer John Sumner had the measure of his rivals, beating Joospeed-prepared Jobson and the ailing Walden into third.
As predicted Ellwood and the Tuscan had won, but not by much.
The grid for race two was somewhat depleted as Guglielmi's engine was headed for the knackers yard and Ellwood's Tuscan had cooked its brakes beyond repair in race one.
But the drama wasn't over by any means, as pole-sitter Bowes led the field away in bright sunshine. By the start of the second lap, spots of rain quickly turned into a monsoon. In less than a minute, the track surface resembled a skidpan and the turbocharged cars changed from obedient thoroughbreds to untamed wild stallions. This should have handed the advantage to Bowes, but as TVRs slid off in all directions, Steve Lewis defied the conditions to harass the twitchy Griffith ahead. As they tiptoed from one puddle to the next, they were never separated by more than a second all the way to the finish line. Behind them Graham Walden made life torrid for Reynolds despite giving away over 100bhp to the more powerful, class B car.
Just behind these two came Sumner and Coulson in class A. For Gary Coulson, in his first year as a racing driver, third place meant a triumphant first podium and as the sun reappeared for prize-giving, his award was treated to the loudest cheer from the assembled teams.
Walden's engine problem in the first race had cost him dear in the championship, as he slipped behind Bowes in the points table. With two races still to go, its building up to an exciting climax with the top three separated by only 6 points.
The TVRCC are currently evaluating the regulations for 2005. After such a close and competitive weekend, and with the official Tuscan Challenge in its final year, one wonders if there could be more of these classic racers on the grid next year.
so far this season we have had
Tasmin ( v6 and 2ltr Turbo)
3000m
Griffith (90's)
Tuscan Chalenge car
There was to be a 60's Tuscan but it got shunted in a historic race before it could come out to play.
Currently our class structure is based on power to weight limits.
Cheers
Graham
Mail me via my profile
The point being, that existing Tuscan drivers would need to be able to run as they do today if some were to consider joining this series in the absence of having their own. On the other hand, people who wish to join the series and want to drive a race Tuscan, albeit with a RoverV8 and road tyres, who have not expirenced Tuscan Challenge racing, would no doubt find it very rewarding, for as proved by these recent event's, the car's are competitive even when not being used even close to their optimum capability.
Having just looked up the times etc, a 1:55 seems to be the top level for the recent races, whilst last time I was at Rockingham, I was putting in lap times of 1:41, and I was 7th, the quick boy's were in the 1:39's, some 16 sec's per lap quicker. On this basis, a full race Tuscan would be lapping the whole field on lap 9, and could be into traffic by lap 3/4 or there abouts.
>> Edited by HAWTHORNS LTD on Monday 6th September 14:32
well as you just shelled out a pot load of dosh for your sexy new motor, here looks to be a good place for you. Shame about the TVR Challenge, but at least you can say you were in there at the end.
It would be good to see what an AJP/slickshod Tuscan can do in the TVRCC races.
I fear they will romp off from the Griffs/Tasmins, R8 engined Tuscans, but if there are a bunch of them then so what??
An even bigger spread of battles to entertain and excite the masses who will attend can only be good and as for safety aspects, whilst I can see the concerns regarding huge performance differences, the GT's all seem to manage ok, albeit the classes are seperate and are prepared to yield positions to LMP,s etc. whilst presumably the Tuscan Challenge cars would actually be racing the Tasmins etc., who would want to keep the toe in at all costs.
I am sure it would be feasible and fun and probably a bloody damned sight cheaper too.
The problem is how to get your hands on a full race AJP!!! (and spares), Tvr lease them currently, and only to those in the Tuscan Challenge. My point is that I doubt that many existing Challenge drivers will want to drive a modified tuscan that may perform, as at Rockingham, some 16 plus seconds per lap slower then they are used to, people who haven't done Tuscan racing could be more then happy with the prospect but I can't see it happening with drivers that have enjoyed Tuscan racing at it's best.
If the Tuscan drivers don't manage to continue the existing series themselves, dispite the considerable effort going in to keeping the series, then cars will become available prehaps for others to use and enjoy, but I don't think many existing drivers would want to convert.
To be honest, if a lot of people wanted to spend the budget to race a Tuscan, with AJP and slicks the series would be continuing as is. It would appear that it will not continue in it's current format so this appears to be a good solution for people to go racing in a TVR.
For <10k you can pick up a Tuscan and add a strong Rover V8 for ~£5k which will be attractive for some. If you have £70-100k the often quoted amounts for a competitive Tuscan car, then maybe you should consider GT's anyway....
Are you sure that the times you are comparing are for the same circuit at Rockingham ?? I think you are comparing times on different circuits...
All IMHO
Archibold
archibold said:
Are you sure that the times you are comparing are for the same circuit at Rockingham ?? I think you are comparing times on different circuits...
good point i've raced at rockingham twice and seen 3 races their non of them have been on the same configuration... Last time i was trying to work out how a mates mg midget was 30 secs s lap quicker than me... 3/4 of a mile shorter circuit was the answer....
I completely agree with you. Anyone wanting the same experience as they get today in a state of the art Tuscan Challenge car will not be suited to racing an RV8 version on non slick tyres.
I must say that if the Tuscan Challenge is not viable next year, I'm not sure what else will be able to provide the same bang for buck anyway.
If the organisers aren't able to put together something which retains the current high standard of drivers, it would be a shame to see these cars mothballed or racing as ones and twos in various Sports and Saloons series.
I think that with a relatively low powered RV8 they would make great club racing cars, much more suited to the more limited skills of us amateurs. If they were allowed to enter the TVRCC, at least a number of them could be seen racing together, alongside their spiritual brothers.
Maybe, with your experience of these monsters, you could enter one or two cars on behalf of your customers. I guess with less strain, and more gentlemenly driving, they should be a lot less expensive to run.
I completely agree with you. Anyone wanting the same experience as they get today in a state of the art Tuscan Challenge car will not be suited to racing an RV8 version on non slick tyres.
I must say that if the Tuscan Challenge is not viable next year, I'm not sure what else will be able to provide the same bang for buck anyway.
If the organisers aren't able to put together something which retains the current high standard of drivers, it would be a shame to see these cars mothballed or racing as ones and twos in various Sports and Saloons series.
I think that with a relatively low powered RV8 they would make great club racing cars, much more suited to the more limited skills of us amateurs. If they were allowed to enter the TVRCC, at least a number of them could be seen racing together, alongside their spiritual brothers.
Maybe, with your experience of these monsters, you could enter one or two cars on behalf of your customers. I guess with less strain, and more gentlemenly driving, they should be a lot less expensive to run.
27 Opps, that could make it even worse then, for the times I gave where for the long circuit, just assumed that you guy's did the same one, I'll check again and re-post.
Simon, just a little point, most of us in Tuscans are amature drivers just like you guy's, we're just used to driving these beasts, just a bit quicker and have had the oppertunity to race against semi/ proffessional drivers from time to time that show us how it's really done, and through default have improved our racecraft while desperatly trying to keep up with them
I think that there is every chance that the Tuscans will continue in their own series, but if, and it's a big if, they don't, the cars are far more likely to find their way into your series as opposed to the current drivers. For myself, I'm not bothered one way or another, a race is a race is a race
and if my options preclude Tuscans in a new format or British GT ( at a sensible cost) then why not!!!!!, I would however try hard to maintain the same power/engine and run on slicks cos you just can't beat it 
Just checked my info, both races and times were on the same circuit, being 2.4430 miles long
>> Edited by Tuscan 29 on Monday 6th September 20:08
joospeed said:
It'd be great to see the tuscans out in full force with slicks and full on AJP8s in there, however I suspect you'd find it difficult to get that one past the series coordinator and the series sponsor, one of which is usually first past the flag .. at a stroke you'd relegate them to midfield runners and i can't imagine them wanting that at all ..
27 At 16 sec's a lap advantage we would all have a close finish if you kind of "forgot" that the Tuscan had done an extre one
......... who's counting anyway 
joospeed said:
The AJP8 Tuscans running 450bhp plus on control Kumho tyres .. now that would be a spectacle ..
27 If It's anything to go by, last weekend at Thruxton, with I must admit a full, yes by mistake, full hard set up, I managed to totally remove all traces of rubber from both the front and rear (left) brand new slicks, in 8 laps
Dunlop condemed them on the spot, and there were reports (not true) that these tyres were on fire
, on final inspection they resembled the contours of the Atlas mountain range having been streched at each end and flattened by the jolly green giant Control tyre........... 2 laps top!!!
I wonder what difference to the lap times the slicks make... say a couple of seconds a lap...
the difference between class B and class A pole was 11 seconds or 4.5 seconds per mile ( road tyres) and give the right conditions and driver ( i would say that driving a car powered by a dead hamster) a lower class car can beat a turbo...
so if you take the tyres out of the equation the difference between a tuscan and a class B car is the same as the class A- B difference, on a power circuit. On a shorter more technical circuit that difference as it does a-b will disappear..
so on a pure class difference its doable (IMHO), the problem is costs. The series is designed to try and keeps costs down. using 600 quids worth of tyres a weekend gives me cause for concern. the current tvrcc-challenge runners use 2-4 sets per season... having to use 12 sets + is a little scarey.
If you ran the tuscans of a treaded tyre ( one possibility for next year is the Dunlop D01j) would they last longer or chuck the treads off after 1 lap...
( i wonder if barc would let us start the tuscans from the pit lane after 1 lap
) 
how much does it cost to sponsor the series? .. if it's cost effective then yeah sure .. there's not much coverage in the Motoring Press, and apart from trophies I don't know what the money would be spent on so can't be more than 500 pounds a season?
>> Edited by joospeed on Monday 6th September 22:53
joospeed said:
It'd be great to see the tuscans out in full force with slicks and full on AJP8s in there, however I suspect you'd find it difficult to get that one past the series coordinator and the series sponsor, one of which is usually first past the flag .. at a stroke you'd relegate them to midfield runners and i can't imagine them wanting that at all ..
For those that are not aware, changes to the regulations of the TVRCC Challenge Cup are made by a technical committee made up of constructors and drivers from the series. This committee does not include the series sponsor or the series co-ordinator. Whilst regulations stability is strived for, any ideas for rule changes are always welcome, and will be considered by the committee - see the original post at the start of this thread.
mospethm said:
joospeed said:
It'd be great to see the tuscans out in full force with slicks and full on AJP8s in there, however I suspect you'd find it difficult to get that one past the series coordinator and the series sponsor, one of which is usually first past the flag .. at a stroke you'd relegate them to midfield runners and i can't imagine them wanting that at all ..
For those that are not aware, changes to the regulations of the TVRCC Challenge Cup are made by a technical committee made up of constructors and drivers from the series. This committee does not include the series sponsor or the series co-ordinator. Whilst regulations stability is strived for, any ideas for rule changes are always welcome, and will be considered by the committee - see the original post at the start of this thread.
lol yup that's the case now, wasn't when I made my post though
Still think it'd be great to see those tuscans get a home .. can't see why a multi-tiered class structure can't work, especially if you allowed higher bhp/tonne figures .. more power than grip is always a recipe for excitement
>> Edited by joospeed on Sunday 12th September 20:06
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