Discussion
Making my way to work this morning (along the North Deeside road) i was amazed at how many accidents had already happened and how many involved SUV/offroad/4x4's. 3 accidents from Banchory to Ballater alone and a further 2 from Ballater to Braemar. 4 out of the 5 accidents involving said vehicles.
why is it that simply have a high clearance car seems to make people think that they can continue as normal? they most likely havn't changed to winter tyres but still think that their level of grip will not be affected. their brakes won't have changed, but they will still insist on driving close enough to the person in front to give them a colonoscopy.
people don't seem to understand that the only difference between these 4x4's and a normal car is ground clearance. Yes - they have 4wheel drive! and whilst that may help a little, it is mostly only useful for getting you out of a ditch, not preventing you from going in there in the first place.
Just remember people, leave plenty of room between yourself and the car in front and drive at a speed appropriate to the road conditions. my thoughts go out to those involved in the head on collision between Banchory and Aboyne, judging by the wreckage it appeared to be a nasty one
Keep safe people
Phoenixz
why is it that simply have a high clearance car seems to make people think that they can continue as normal? they most likely havn't changed to winter tyres but still think that their level of grip will not be affected. their brakes won't have changed, but they will still insist on driving close enough to the person in front to give them a colonoscopy.
people don't seem to understand that the only difference between these 4x4's and a normal car is ground clearance. Yes - they have 4wheel drive! and whilst that may help a little, it is mostly only useful for getting you out of a ditch, not preventing you from going in there in the first place.
Just remember people, leave plenty of room between yourself and the car in front and drive at a speed appropriate to the road conditions. my thoughts go out to those involved in the head on collision between Banchory and Aboyne, judging by the wreckage it appeared to be a nasty one
Keep safe people
Phoenixz
Agree, its not the traction for acceleraton thats the problem, its stopping ~2-2.5 tonnes of car with limited braking ability. Some probably rely on a mis-guided assumption that 4WD and ABS will make any real difference to stopping distances on snow / slushy crap..
It made me laugh (in a way) on the way to work through Aberdeen today, at the number of people who clearly proceed directly from the front door to their vehicle, with no real attempt at clearing any of the snow from it, with just the wipers to clear the windscreen (sort of), and maybe a couple of half down leccy window movements. Snow built up on the roof and around the windsceen, headlights / rear light covered in snow (even though they were on)etc.
I do sound like a right old grumpy C**t, but less than 2 mins with a scrapper / big glove is all it takes.. [rant off]
It made me laugh (in a way) on the way to work through Aberdeen today, at the number of people who clearly proceed directly from the front door to their vehicle, with no real attempt at clearing any of the snow from it, with just the wipers to clear the windscreen (sort of), and maybe a couple of half down leccy window movements. Snow built up on the roof and around the windsceen, headlights / rear light covered in snow (even though they were on)etc.
I do sound like a right old grumpy C**t, but less than 2 mins with a scrapper / big glove is all it takes.. [rant off]
Tyres.
A lot of the 4x4 will have the OE tyres on, nice low profile ones. Nit much use in the winter. It truly amazes me that folk in the North of Scotland don't have winter tyres. They perform better in less than 7 degrees, and for the majority of Nov - Feb it's colder than that, we even had snow in September/October this year.
A lot of the 4x4 will have the OE tyres on, nice low profile ones. Nit much use in the winter. It truly amazes me that folk in the North of Scotland don't have winter tyres. They perform better in less than 7 degrees, and for the majority of Nov - Feb it's colder than that, we even had snow in September/October this year.
It took nearly 2 and a half hours to cover a 40 min drive today (Inverurie to Stonehaven), some people just totally lose the plot when the snow falls. I only saw one crashed car, an Audi A4 that had gone straight on into a tree at a left hand bend.
We were actually so late we missed the funeral we were heading for. It was crazy this morning.
We were actually so late we missed the funeral we were heading for. It was crazy this morning.
The difference proper tyres make is almost unbelievable - driving around in the Zed with winter boots on with no problems at all, except for getting into the works carpark, when it is a case of TC off, 2nd gear and sideways 
A 4x4 with proper tyres on will be the best thing you can have in the snow. A 4x4 with low profile, wide summer tyres (I'm looking at you Mr. Q7 and Mrs. X5) will be worse than my stupid sportscar in the snow - like someone said above, it isn't the getting started that is the problem, it's the stopping.
A 4x4 with proper tyres on will be the best thing you can have in the snow. A 4x4 with low profile, wide summer tyres (I'm looking at you Mr. Q7 and Mrs. X5) will be worse than my stupid sportscar in the snow - like someone said above, it isn't the getting started that is the problem, it's the stopping.
I live in Canada and have spent many winters driving in snow. Every December,as the winter socks in, I see the accidents I have often been passed by someone driving fat too fast and met them later in the ditch.
I have a Cayenne V8, properly equipped with winter rims and tires which is not equipped with the optional Defy The Laws Of Physics package, so take it a bit easy in the winter,especially at the beginning.
I have a Cayenne V8, properly equipped with winter rims and tires which is not equipped with the optional Defy The Laws Of Physics package, so take it a bit easy in the winter,especially at the beginning.
MidnightXR6 said:
I recently bought a little shogun pinin. Its on 215/65/16 summer tyres on it but so far its been great in the snow. I think weighing just over a ton helps.
Still doesn't help you brake or go round corners, in fact, in many 4x4's it makes it worse due to all that extra weight and wide tyres. I would rather have my RWD with winter tyres than a 4x4 on summer tyres. Plus it means the other 355 days a year I have something fun to drive, it's a win win.
Of course, 4x4 with winter tyres will be the best solution for those other 10 days, don't disagree with that.
Edited by scz4 on Thursday 6th December 11:58
Not too sure I agree with some of this. I have done over 220,000 miles in 4wd VW estate cars in the past 12 years in all sorts of weather. 4wd will help you put the power down more evenly.
It will be more stable in rain or wet conditions. It gives extra traction in snow and ice, simply 4 driven wheels compared to two!
Id doesnt help with:
Braking
Cornering
( parking if you have a large SUV)
Not going into ditches, (if you are looking at pics of your puppy on the phone whilst driving, AJM)
I just put snow tyres on mine this year. Hopefully wont get stuck and avoid ditches!
Paul
It will be more stable in rain or wet conditions. It gives extra traction in snow and ice, simply 4 driven wheels compared to two!
Id doesnt help with:
Braking
Cornering
( parking if you have a large SUV)
Not going into ditches, (if you are looking at pics of your puppy on the phone whilst driving, AJM)
I just put snow tyres on mine this year. Hopefully wont get stuck and avoid ditches!
Paul
That video is a really good way of showing just how much better winter tyres are.
I'm one of the invincible and deluded Q7 owners. Summer tyres with 3mm tread were enough to drive in the snow we have so far but stopping or turning were a bit too crap for my liking.
One set of winters fitted at Colin's tyres yesterday and I can resume my duties as the outside lane bully.
All of the cars I've seen in ditches or on top of walls have been normal Peugeots and Audis, not seen any crashed 4x4s yet.
I'm one of the invincible and deluded Q7 owners. Summer tyres with 3mm tread were enough to drive in the snow we have so far but stopping or turning were a bit too crap for my liking.
One set of winters fitted at Colin's tyres yesterday and I can resume my duties as the outside lane bully.
All of the cars I've seen in ditches or on top of walls have been normal Peugeots and Audis, not seen any crashed 4x4s yet.
Edited by Speed addicted on Thursday 6th December 13:31
[quote=paulqv
It will be more stable in rain or wet conditions. Paul
[/quote]
Not sure that's true or of any value really. You have to be trying pretty hard to get the back end lose under acceleration on a RWD car with all the modern day safety devices on-board. And if you do, well you're probably not driving to the conditions, I just don't see the need for 4x4 unless proper off-roading. Of course, turn it off these aids and you're on your own, but that's when driver skills comes in.
It will be more stable in rain or wet conditions. Paul
[/quote]
Not sure that's true or of any value really. You have to be trying pretty hard to get the back end lose under acceleration on a RWD car with all the modern day safety devices on-board. And if you do, well you're probably not driving to the conditions, I just don't see the need for 4x4 unless proper off-roading. Of course, turn it off these aids and you're on your own, but that's when driver skills comes in.
scz4 said:
Not sure that's true or of any value really. You have to be trying pretty hard to get the back end lose under acceleration on a RWD car with all the modern day safety devices on-board. And if you do, well you're probably not driving to the conditions, I just don't see the need for 4x4 unless proper off-roading. Of course, turn it off these aids and you're on your own, but that's when driver skills comes in.
lolMost of my old cars dont even have ABS or indeed a brake servo in two of them, never mind drivers aids! In old Italian cars, that ususlly means someone to help push it!
I drive a lot of different cars, other than my own, and clearly notice the difference in wet conditions. There is clearly more grip, and stability. Modern cars stability controls are there for various reasosn, the biggest of which is modern ultra low profile tyres being so stiff, that they transmit very little feel or warning of what the car is doing or of conditions, and mask that.
I normally do about 30,000 miles per annum and have done about 800,000 miles in my driving time in lots of different conditions, but mainly up here in gods chosen country, where it rains, just a wee bit. Those 220k in the 4wd Passats have been very differnt.
As recently experienced. Having a 4x4 doesn't stop incidents happening.
Braking and cornering on ice is vastly reduced. Put in gradients and you asking for trouble.
Tyres will always be the factor. Most come with M+S rated tyres when new. Many don't bother to buy the same set when renewing so some cheapo make goes on with no M+S rating. Or the tyres are worn out so have much reduced grip.
However, clear advantage of 4x4 over rwd, they drive back out ditches and don't get much damage. Eh Paul?
Braking and cornering on ice is vastly reduced. Put in gradients and you asking for trouble.
Tyres will always be the factor. Most come with M+S rated tyres when new. Many don't bother to buy the same set when renewing so some cheapo make goes on with no M+S rating. Or the tyres are worn out so have much reduced grip.
However, clear advantage of 4x4 over rwd, they drive back out ditches and don't get much damage. Eh Paul?
I think you can include people with AWD cars in that too, I have seen plenty Audi Quattros been driven very stupidly.
As for winter tyres, I have never used them and don't plan to. No problems yet (especially in the two very bad winters we had 2 years ago and 3 years ago), and I seem to be doing alright this year too. I think they key is good tyres and not budget ditch finders. That, combined with a light right foot, has done me just fine so far.
I may be driving the A96 from Aberdeen to Inverness tomorrow, so we shall see how that goes. It is amazing how some people just don't drive to the conditions, on occasion I have actually seen cars been driven quickly squirming about and you really wonder if the driver knows what is going on.
As for winter tyres, I have never used them and don't plan to. No problems yet (especially in the two very bad winters we had 2 years ago and 3 years ago), and I seem to be doing alright this year too. I think they key is good tyres and not budget ditch finders. That, combined with a light right foot, has done me just fine so far.
I may be driving the A96 from Aberdeen to Inverness tomorrow, so we shall see how that goes. It is amazing how some people just don't drive to the conditions, on occasion I have actually seen cars been driven quickly squirming about and you really wonder if the driver knows what is going on.
BorkFactor said:
I think they key is good tyres and not budget ditch finders. That, combined with a light right foot, has done me just fine so far.
I think for summer tyres in winter the tread pattern makes a big difference. I used to have Goodyear eagle F1s on my 330ci and I found them to be spectacularly bad in snow. My wife has a fwd Audi A4 cabrio, even with nearly new good quality tyres it's not much use, hence my diesel bill being higher at this time of year even though I work offshore.
It also depends a lot on where you live, if you stay in the middle of a town and use main roads then the snow won't be that much of a problem. I was up at loch muick today and the 5" or so of fresh snow in the car park may have been more of a problem for things without the right tyres.
BorkFactor said:
I think you can include people with AWD cars in that too, I have seen plenty Audi Quattros been driven very stupidly.
As for winter tyres, I have never used them and don't plan to. No problems yet (especially in the two very bad winters we had 2 years ago and 3 years ago), and I seem to be doing alright this year too. I think they key is good tyres and not budget ditch finders. That, combined with a light right foot, has done me just fine so far.
I may be driving the A96 from Aberdeen to Inverness tomorrow, so we shall see how that goes. It is amazing how some people just don't drive to the conditions, on occasion I have actually seen cars been driven quickly squirming about and you really wonder if the driver knows what is going on.
The A96 is as clear as can be. I was happily sitting at 70 today. I'd quite like some more snow though, might be a decent excuse to stay home.As for winter tyres, I have never used them and don't plan to. No problems yet (especially in the two very bad winters we had 2 years ago and 3 years ago), and I seem to be doing alright this year too. I think they key is good tyres and not budget ditch finders. That, combined with a light right foot, has done me just fine so far.
I may be driving the A96 from Aberdeen to Inverness tomorrow, so we shall see how that goes. It is amazing how some people just don't drive to the conditions, on occasion I have actually seen cars been driven quickly squirming about and you really wonder if the driver knows what is going on.
I drive an A6 Quattro and an Outback
The prblem with 4x4's in snow is that they accelerate very well and to speeds you wouldn't want to get to in a 2wd car in snow. But unless you have winter tyres they are rubbish at stopping and turning. The Outback is ok, but thats on all season tyres, the sporty tyres on the A6 means that stopping and turning in snow is a bit hit and miss
The prblem with 4x4's in snow is that they accelerate very well and to speeds you wouldn't want to get to in a 2wd car in snow. But unless you have winter tyres they are rubbish at stopping and turning. The Outback is ok, but thats on all season tyres, the sporty tyres on the A6 means that stopping and turning in snow is a bit hit and miss
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