Supercup Exhaust(Fabspeed)
Discussion
Am off over to the states next week, have been considering getting a Fabspeed exhaust when I get back, but have spotted these,
"Fabspeed 996 Super cup GT3 Super cup System
USA Street Legal! - $399.00 / Set
Loud and Proud!!! This GT3 is a very aggressive catback performance exhaust.
- Intended for track events and PCA Club Racing. Very aggressive Super cup GT3 sound.
- T304SS heavy gauge polished
- Simple bolt on save 60 LBS. on rear of 996 S.
- No Mufflers, just like GT3 Super cup 996. Intoxicating Super Cup GT3 Formula 1 sound.
-996 Muffler Bypass Pipes - GT3 Cup Style"
would be easy to stick in my suitcase however will they be too loud? Illegal in UK? Have driven a Cerbera with a standard exhaust which was quite loud But I liked that.
996 is too quiet for me.
Anyone seen/heard the 996 Supercup race cars to assess for me
PS Sorry for the messed up posts
>>> Edited by hoganscrogan on Tuesday 18th June 23:19
"Fabspeed 996 Super cup GT3 Super cup System
USA Street Legal! - $399.00 / Set
Loud and Proud!!! This GT3 is a very aggressive catback performance exhaust.
- Intended for track events and PCA Club Racing. Very aggressive Super cup GT3 sound.
- T304SS heavy gauge polished
- Simple bolt on save 60 LBS. on rear of 996 S.
- No Mufflers, just like GT3 Super cup 996. Intoxicating Super Cup GT3 Formula 1 sound.
-996 Muffler Bypass Pipes - GT3 Cup Style"
would be easy to stick in my suitcase however will they be too loud? Illegal in UK? Have driven a Cerbera with a standard exhaust which was quite loud But I liked that.
996 is too quiet for me.
Anyone seen/heard the 996 Supercup race cars to assess for me
PS Sorry for the messed up posts
>>> Edited by hoganscrogan on Tuesday 18th June 23:19
Would not reccomend the exhaust pipes the noise would be absolutely deafening.
I had the fabspeed silencers for my 996 and they were very loud, (about sports exhaust Cerb loud) even with a large stainless silencer on each side. The ones pictured are not really for road use and would reverberate like hell.
Surely what you are after is a refined noise rather than just a deafening blare on a 996??
Bennno
good tune is what you get with the fabspeed silencers which take out the blare and the resonance, those tailpipes would be very unrefined.
as you are buying a new 996 you should go for the optional porsche sports pipes, tey sound even better and have some special jiggery pokery which means its quiet in town and barks at speed, sounds at least as good as the fabspeed option if not a little better and you wont mess up your new car warranty.
Bennno
as you are buying a new 996 you should go for the optional porsche sports pipes, tey sound even better and have some special jiggery pokery which means its quiet in town and barks at speed, sounds at least as good as the fabspeed option if not a little better and you wont mess up your new car warranty.
Bennno
I fancy a full Fabspeed upgrade though: headers, cat bypass, hi flow mufflers, piggy back chip, BMC filter etc... to pump the power up, increase sound levels and drop some weight.
An exhaust change won't affect the warranty. A chip change however might! It's a little cheecky but Fabspeeds piggy backed chip design renders it undetectable by the porsche guys!
An exhaust change won't affect the warranty. A chip change however might! It's a little cheecky but Fabspeeds piggy backed chip design renders it undetectable by the porsche guys!
I don't have a fabspeed system, but from what has been posted on Rennlist I wouldn't believe all the claims.
Joe Fabiani (Mr Fab) made some pretty wild claims a while back, and got shot down in flames by places that had dynoed his stuff before/after fitting.
Even his silencers are meant to be loud, so god knows what those straight pipes will sound like.
Actually I can guess, as we started my mates 993 with no silencers on - sounded way too loud. Why not just drop your silencers and start the car up to find out ??
It's your money, but there are other choices.
Have you tried contacting Gert at Carnewal Part Express ?? (www.carnewal.com I think)
Cheers,
John.
Joe Fabiani (Mr Fab) made some pretty wild claims a while back, and got shot down in flames by places that had dynoed his stuff before/after fitting.
Even his silencers are meant to be loud, so god knows what those straight pipes will sound like.
Actually I can guess, as we started my mates 993 with no silencers on - sounded way too loud. Why not just drop your silencers and start the car up to find out ??
It's your money, but there are other choices.
Have you tried contacting Gert at Carnewal Part Express ?? (www.carnewal.com I think)
Cheers,
John.
Interesting views on Fabspeed stuff.
Well, JZMachtech sell a 350bhp upgrade package and they have a dyno to confirm the results. This still includes cats and more sensible pipes, plus it doesn't have the BMC air filters.
The BMC will be good for circa 5bhp minimum, and the cat removal is good for another easy 10bhp. This will equal an easy 365bhp with all the mods - only 15bhp down on the claimed 20% rise Fabspeed can allegedly give.
Views?......
Well, JZMachtech sell a 350bhp upgrade package and they have a dyno to confirm the results. This still includes cats and more sensible pipes, plus it doesn't have the BMC air filters.
The BMC will be good for circa 5bhp minimum, and the cat removal is good for another easy 10bhp. This will equal an easy 365bhp with all the mods - only 15bhp down on the claimed 20% rise Fabspeed can allegedly give.
Views?......
RR,
I'm not trying to put you off mate. If JZ are hapy it gives the necessary, and can prove it with Dynos, who am I to argue.
I would just hate you to splash the cash and then feel a bit disappointed.
I have spoken with Joe Fab a few times via email, and worked with a guy (at Nokia in Camberley) who had fabspeed pipes on his 993. He was more than happy, but did say they didn't actually produce any more power - just a deeper sound.
Cheers,
John.
I'm not trying to put you off mate. If JZ are hapy it gives the necessary, and can prove it with Dynos, who am I to argue.
I would just hate you to splash the cash and then feel a bit disappointed.
I have spoken with Joe Fab a few times via email, and worked with a guy (at Nokia in Camberley) who had fabspeed pipes on his 993. He was more than happy, but did say they didn't actually produce any more power - just a deeper sound.
Cheers,
John.
John, I think a lot of the power increase comes from the headers - 25bhp in some cases. I know just the mufflers alone will only add 5bhp if your lucky - the main benefit is sound.
If I go with the Fabspeed stuff I'll have to find a uk dealer that's convenient. My main attraction to them is down to the power claims, plus they do cat by-pass pipes, which helps too.
Interesting about benno's views too: that the porsche sport muffler might be better for sound. I'm wondering if the porsche muffler will fit with a Fabspeed front end system.
If I go with the Fabspeed stuff I'll have to find a uk dealer that's convenient. My main attraction to them is down to the power claims, plus they do cat by-pass pipes, which helps too.
Interesting about benno's views too: that the porsche sport muffler might be better for sound. I'm wondering if the porsche muffler will fit with a Fabspeed front end system.
nah, removing back pressure can help on a turbo engine but is unlikely to offer very much at all on a na engine.
when you think that to get 365bhp the GT3 went to a 3.8L engine with different cams, head work, reprogrammed fuelling and freeflowing exhausts you wont get 25bhp without major changes to the engine.
Reading the posts if you are serious about buying a load of carbon fibre panels and spending a fortune on cats, headers, chiiping and exhausts then you would be better off buying a new GT3 or going for a cerb.
Bennno
>> Edited by bennno on Thursday 20th June 11:30
benno, as said before JZM do a guaranteed 350bhp conversion for 2.5k -not very much at all. Removing cats will add circa 10bhp. A BMC F1 style filter will be good for 5ish more. 365bhp no trouble at all for under 3k. Better value than a satnav etc!
I prefer the clean look of the carrera - no spoilers or bolt-ons. My dealer could not tell me a delivery time, spec or price on the new GT3 anyway. If I can get cleaner looks and the same poke for at least 15k less - not bad. I've looked into ALL the possible alternatives and spent AGES going over things with McNab. There are certain problems with the GT3 and turbo that put me off. Trust me, this is the best option for me.
A cerbera? Nah. My mate has one, I need to use a car everyday, etc. The spec of my car will keep up on the straights and piss on it through corners. Plus the 911 is just about my favorite car since I was a kid. (Well, an F1 isn't ever going to be on the cards!)
I prefer the clean look of the carrera - no spoilers or bolt-ons. My dealer could not tell me a delivery time, spec or price on the new GT3 anyway. If I can get cleaner looks and the same poke for at least 15k less - not bad. I've looked into ALL the possible alternatives and spent AGES going over things with McNab. There are certain problems with the GT3 and turbo that put me off. Trust me, this is the best option for me.
A cerbera? Nah. My mate has one, I need to use a car everyday, etc. The spec of my car will keep up on the straights and piss on it through corners. Plus the 911 is just about my favorite car since I was a kid. (Well, an F1 isn't ever going to be on the cards!)
OK, here is my attempt to explain the science of exhausts. The simple way to think about it is the smaller the exhaust the easier it is to shift the gas i.e. smaller surface area to volume ratio. The larger the exhaust, the larger the surface area to volume ratio (harder to shift exhaust gasses). So what does this all mean in performance terms. Well, the smaller bore exhaust gives good low down torque, as the engine isn’t fighting against a huge wall of exhaust gas. However, once you get to serious revs you require the extra space given by the large bore exhaust to shift the high volume of gas (more BHP). So, bottom line is messing around with bore of exhaust allows you to adjust your low down torque and top end BHP. Naively, more bottom end torque = less top end BHP.
Now back pressure. Contrary to popular belief this is a good thing (when delivered correctly). A simple way to understand this is on a car with a large amount on valve overlap. If when you are injecting the next cycles’ fuel the exhaust value is open, then you will inevitably lose some fuel out the exhaust value. This is not good. A performance header (often called an equal length header) has been tuned for a specific car (and engine configuration) such that it maximises the back-pressure when it is needed (and reduces it when not). This back-pressure helps keep the fuel in the engine. This is a very simple explanation but gives the general idea.
So, any gain in BHP from a muffler bypass will be at the expense of low down torque, and if you want ‘extra’ BHP spend your money on a header tuned for your car. Unfortunately, there are loads of exhaust out there that make ridiculous claims, and if you haven’t spent around £2.5K on your headers you can bet that they are not tuned to your car.
For those of you with turbo’s the key is to get the gasses hitting the turbo at regular intervals, again this requires equal length headers.
Now back pressure. Contrary to popular belief this is a good thing (when delivered correctly). A simple way to understand this is on a car with a large amount on valve overlap. If when you are injecting the next cycles’ fuel the exhaust value is open, then you will inevitably lose some fuel out the exhaust value. This is not good. A performance header (often called an equal length header) has been tuned for a specific car (and engine configuration) such that it maximises the back-pressure when it is needed (and reduces it when not). This back-pressure helps keep the fuel in the engine. This is a very simple explanation but gives the general idea.
So, any gain in BHP from a muffler bypass will be at the expense of low down torque, and if you want ‘extra’ BHP spend your money on a header tuned for your car. Unfortunately, there are loads of exhaust out there that make ridiculous claims, and if you haven’t spent around £2.5K on your headers you can bet that they are not tuned to your car.
For those of you with turbo’s the key is to get the gasses hitting the turbo at regular intervals, again this requires equal length headers.
Last time I spoke with JZM they offered me some GT headers for that price. The real problem is they need to be designed for the exact config. or your car (engine map, cams, fuelling.....). It a lot easier to get it right for a turbo car because of the front pressure the turbo makes. That is make each cylinders exhaust gas hit the turbo at 60 degree intervals (in a straight six) and 2 lots of exhaust gas hit the turbo at 180 degree intervals in a flat 6. This is really where equal length manifolds comes from NA cars need tuned headers.
I forgot....
benno, looked into carbon bits but decided I'd be spending too much money and knocked the idea on the head. Also looked into supercharging kits but it will definately void warranty, so won't bother. May look into it in a few years - if I still have th car and get bored. I want to keep total car under 65k if poss.
benno, looked into carbon bits but decided I'd be spending too much money and knocked the idea on the head. Also looked into supercharging kits but it will definately void warranty, so won't bother. May look into it in a few years - if I still have th car and get bored. I want to keep total car under 65k if poss.
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